What would you like to see in the 2015 refresh?
#1
05-28-2015, 02:08 AM
What would you like to see in the 2015 refresh?
I have considered replacing my 2011 Fit with a 2015. I particularly was interested in comfort improvements, keyless push button start, and back up camera. A recent drive of the 2015 didn't inspire me enough to want to upgrade. Here is what I would like to see in the next refresh that could move me to replace my 2011.
1. More comfort without significant loss of fun to drive factor is the biggie: Softer, more supportive seat and a significant reduction in noise & rid harshness. Seems like Focus has achieved this, why not the Fit?
2. An arm rest that I could actually rest my arm on! I have a usable aftermarket arm rest in my 2011, perhaps someone will come out with similar one for 3rd generation.
3. Power tail gate / hatch. Again using the Focus as a bench mark, how about opening the hatch by waving foot under bumper.
1. More comfort without significant loss of fun to drive factor is the biggie: Softer, more supportive seat and a significant reduction in noise & rid harshness. Seems like Focus has achieved this, why not the Fit?
2. An arm rest that I could actually rest my arm on! I have a usable aftermarket arm rest in my 2011, perhaps someone will come out with similar one for 3rd generation.
3. Power tail gate / hatch. Again using the Focus as a bench mark, how about opening the hatch by waving foot under bumper.
#2
05-28-2015, 03:40 AM
I agree with some of your sentiments, but some things (IMHO) would be really hard to achieve, especially on this particular car. For example...
In terms of your #1 improvement - more comfort without significant loss of fun to drive factor - you compare the car to the Focus. The Focus is technically one size and price class up. The Focus Hatch starts at 19 grand, and is more of a C segment size than a B segment size like the Fit. The hatch weighs at between 400 and 700 lbs more than the Fit. Technically, the comparison should be made between the Fit and the Fiesta, which is smaller than the Focus. The Focus, being every-so-slightly upmarket, would be more likely to have a feature like this. I don't think the Fiesta has it, and manufacturers tend to offer higher-tech gadgets on more expensive models (even if they can probably be easily added to the downmarket models), as an incentive to buy the "better" / more expensive model.
But anyway... With sound insulation comes weight - it's very hard to avoid. More insulation on the Fit would increase the weight, which would kill the mileage and the toss-ability. The fact that there's no overdrive gear and therefore the engine is buzzing along at medium to high RPMs at highway speeds adds a lot to the ambient noise, as well as takes away from fuel economy. Not sure what Honda was thinking here, when they upgraded the 5MT to 6MT but kept the tallest gear and final drive ratios the same.
In terms of ride... It's hard to make a suspension both sporty and comfortable. And if you do happen to achieve that, it tends to be expensive. BMWs of past decades were excellent at this, which is what made them popular - they're usable & spacious sedans that don't kill your back with a rough ride, but can still take curves quickly and with grace and put a smile on your face any time. As anyone can notice, though, they aren't in the same price range as the Fit. There's a limit on just how comfortable AND sporty you can make a sub-20K car.
Basically, the more you want the Fit to be able to do (be sporty, comfortable, and utilitarian), the more expensive and heavy it'll get. I know everyone wants the Fit to be their perfect car. And I'm sure Honda can make that car. But can they make it for the price it Fit is being offered at? I'm not so sure.
But... Other than that - I agree with you completely on many of your suggestions, and even have a couple more points to add!
In terms of your first point - I still think the current Fit is fun to drive, but there are still ways the "fun" factor could have been turned up without adding too much to the price. Weightier and more communicative steering, slightly better tires, a rear antiroll bar are just a few relatively inexpensive additions to make the car more fun.
Point number 2 - I completely agree with you. I wouldn't even call it an "armrest." There are already aftermarket options to make it into a real armrest, but to me they look ugly
Finally, point 3. This isn't that important to me, but I gotta agree the foot under the bumper thing is cool, and a lot of manufacturers include it now, not just Ford, so Honda definitely could as well. I know the Pilot has a power rear gate, but all I know is it can be activated manually (pressing a button by hand), no idea about the foot sensor.
I'd also add:
Fix the damn gear ratios on the MT! 6 is not tall enough for efficient highway cruising, and that adds to the cabin noise. 5 is unreasonably close to 6.
The clutch has excessive dead space and is pretty soft. Not a huge deal, but I feel like all the extra travel might wear down the spring or whatever mechanism early.
Touchscreens are cool, but buttons allow the driver to do more stuff without taking their eyes off the road. And the touchscreen is just a fraction of a second slower to respond than modern phones. Not a big issue, but it is noticeable. Honda had better not HVAC controls touchscreen like in the HRV. And a quick "mute all sounds" button would be nice.
There's a car I just read about, but can't seem to remember, that has context sensitive buttons. Meaning, that depending on what you're currently doing (adjusting radio, HVAC, settings), the function of the buttons (and the illuminated wording on the buttons, too), changes. I think that would be the best compromise between the touchscreen and normal physical buttons. I know Honda's gotten flak in the past for being ridiculously over-complicated and over-buttoned on their center consoles, but context-sensitive buttons seem to be the most elegant solution in my opinion.
Other than that... there's so much i love about the car!
In terms of your #1 improvement - more comfort without significant loss of fun to drive factor - you compare the car to the Focus. The Focus is technically one size and price class up. The Focus Hatch starts at 19 grand, and is more of a C segment size than a B segment size like the Fit. The hatch weighs at between 400 and 700 lbs more than the Fit. Technically, the comparison should be made between the Fit and the Fiesta, which is smaller than the Focus. The Focus, being every-so-slightly upmarket, would be more likely to have a feature like this. I don't think the Fiesta has it, and manufacturers tend to offer higher-tech gadgets on more expensive models (even if they can probably be easily added to the downmarket models), as an incentive to buy the "better" / more expensive model.
But anyway... With sound insulation comes weight - it's very hard to avoid. More insulation on the Fit would increase the weight, which would kill the mileage and the toss-ability. The fact that there's no overdrive gear and therefore the engine is buzzing along at medium to high RPMs at highway speeds adds a lot to the ambient noise, as well as takes away from fuel economy. Not sure what Honda was thinking here, when they upgraded the 5MT to 6MT but kept the tallest gear and final drive ratios the same.
In terms of ride... It's hard to make a suspension both sporty and comfortable. And if you do happen to achieve that, it tends to be expensive. BMWs of past decades were excellent at this, which is what made them popular - they're usable & spacious sedans that don't kill your back with a rough ride, but can still take curves quickly and with grace and put a smile on your face any time. As anyone can notice, though, they aren't in the same price range as the Fit. There's a limit on just how comfortable AND sporty you can make a sub-20K car.
Basically, the more you want the Fit to be able to do (be sporty, comfortable, and utilitarian), the more expensive and heavy it'll get. I know everyone wants the Fit to be their perfect car. And I'm sure Honda can make that car. But can they make it for the price it Fit is being offered at? I'm not so sure.
But... Other than that - I agree with you completely on many of your suggestions, and even have a couple more points to add!
In terms of your first point - I still think the current Fit is fun to drive, but there are still ways the "fun" factor could have been turned up without adding too much to the price. Weightier and more communicative steering, slightly better tires, a rear antiroll bar are just a few relatively inexpensive additions to make the car more fun.
Point number 2 - I completely agree with you. I wouldn't even call it an "armrest." There are already aftermarket options to make it into a real armrest, but to me they look ugly
Finally, point 3. This isn't that important to me, but I gotta agree the foot under the bumper thing is cool, and a lot of manufacturers include it now, not just Ford, so Honda definitely could as well. I know the Pilot has a power rear gate, but all I know is it can be activated manually (pressing a button by hand), no idea about the foot sensor.
I'd also add:
Fix the damn gear ratios on the MT! 6 is not tall enough for efficient highway cruising, and that adds to the cabin noise. 5 is unreasonably close to 6.
The clutch has excessive dead space and is pretty soft. Not a huge deal, but I feel like all the extra travel might wear down the spring or whatever mechanism early.
Touchscreens are cool, but buttons allow the driver to do more stuff without taking their eyes off the road. And the touchscreen is just a fraction of a second slower to respond than modern phones. Not a big issue, but it is noticeable. Honda had better not HVAC controls touchscreen like in the HRV. And a quick "mute all sounds" button would be nice.
There's a car I just read about, but can't seem to remember, that has context sensitive buttons. Meaning, that depending on what you're currently doing (adjusting radio, HVAC, settings), the function of the buttons (and the illuminated wording on the buttons, too), changes. I think that would be the best compromise between the touchscreen and normal physical buttons. I know Honda's gotten flak in the past for being ridiculously over-complicated and over-buttoned on their center consoles, but context-sensitive buttons seem to be the most elegant solution in my opinion.
Other than that... there's so much i love about the car!
Last edited by 1speedbike; 05-28-2015 at 03:53 AM.
#3
05-28-2015, 05:54 AM
I have considered replacing my 2011 Fit with a 2015. I particularly was interested in comfort improvements, keyless push button start, and back up camera. A recent drive of the 2015 didn't inspire me enough to want to upgrade. Here is what I would like to see in the next refresh that could move me to replace my 2011.
1. More comfort without significant loss of fun to drive factor is the biggie: Softer, more supportive seat and a significant reduction in noise & rid harshness. Seems like Focus has achieved this, why not the Fit?
2. An arm rest that I could actually rest my arm on! I have a usable aftermarket arm rest in my 2011, perhaps someone will come out with similar one for 3rd generation.
3. Power tail gate / hatch. Again using the Focus as a bench mark, how about opening the hatch by waving foot under bumper.
1. More comfort without significant loss of fun to drive factor is the biggie: Softer, more supportive seat and a significant reduction in noise & rid harshness. Seems like Focus has achieved this, why not the Fit?
2. An arm rest that I could actually rest my arm on! I have a usable aftermarket arm rest in my 2011, perhaps someone will come out with similar one for 3rd generation.
3. Power tail gate / hatch. Again using the Focus as a bench mark, how about opening the hatch by waving foot under bumper.
#4
05-28-2015, 08:41 AM
My wish list, not necessarily on a refresh, just a wish list:
-Some tinting on the windows would be nice
-Engine Start/Stop system
-Some additional radio dials (EX model)
-On/off switch for the cargo light
No biggies here, just dreaming..........
-Some tinting on the windows would be nice
-Engine Start/Stop system
-Some additional radio dials (EX model)
-On/off switch for the cargo light
No biggies here, just dreaming..........
#5
05-28-2015, 12:01 PM
Factory tint would be nice. I hate having to take a new car in and have people crawl around the interior.
Power hatch? Not for me. Leave those for the soccer mom crossovers. I would like a key lock in the hatch, though!
A "Plain Jane" model without the PC in the dash. I don't need to interface my phone with the car, thankyouverymuch
And, while I'm dreaming, a Diesel would be nice. Can you say 50MPG?
Power hatch? Not for me. Leave those for the soccer mom crossovers. I would like a key lock in the hatch, though!
A "Plain Jane" model without the PC in the dash. I don't need to interface my phone with the car, thankyouverymuch
And, while I'm dreaming, a Diesel would be nice. Can you say 50MPG?
Last edited by GeorgeL; 05-28-2015 at 12:03 PM.
#7
05-28-2015, 01:20 PM
The biggest annoyances I have (and these are really quite minor) are:
- CarPlay *still* not supported (this probably my biggest gripe)
- Poor center armrest height and cushioning
- Poor door armrest cushioning
- Small fuel tank; 14 gallons would take this from a "300 mile" to a "500 mile" car between fillups (based on my typical driving profile). This one's unlikely, I know.
Another inch of rearward seat travel would be nice, but even at 5'-16" tall, I don't feel overly cramped, even on a long road trip (10-16 hours).
Oh - the panel under the engine is entirely too flimsy and needs to be beefed up. I hit some debris on a road trip recently, and noticed the panel is now hanging down in the rear – will have to repair it when I do my next oil change in a week or two.
I agree about the 6MT ratios - I bought a CVT *because* of the poor ratios, natch. Would have much preferred the 6MT, but I do too many long highway trips (and am in my 50s now - "Get off my lawn!"), and 3500+ RPM is too frantic for 10+ hours at a time.
Finally, an RS or SI trim level would be cool (body kit, +20 HP and tighter handling), even though I'd not be likely to replace my current car this soon.
es
- CarPlay *still* not supported (this probably my biggest gripe)
- Poor center armrest height and cushioning
- Poor door armrest cushioning
- Small fuel tank; 14 gallons would take this from a "300 mile" to a "500 mile" car between fillups (based on my typical driving profile). This one's unlikely, I know.
Another inch of rearward seat travel would be nice, but even at 5'-16" tall, I don't feel overly cramped, even on a long road trip (10-16 hours).
Oh - the panel under the engine is entirely too flimsy and needs to be beefed up. I hit some debris on a road trip recently, and noticed the panel is now hanging down in the rear – will have to repair it when I do my next oil change in a week or two.
I agree about the 6MT ratios - I bought a CVT *because* of the poor ratios, natch. Would have much preferred the 6MT, but I do too many long highway trips (and am in my 50s now - "Get off my lawn!"), and 3500+ RPM is too frantic for 10+ hours at a time.
Finally, an RS or SI trim level would be cool (body kit, +20 HP and tighter handling), even though I'd not be likely to replace my current car this soon.
es
Last edited by stembridge; 05-28-2015 at 01:34 PM.
#9
05-28-2015, 03:48 PM
Interesting subject and a note on your points:
1) I would love to get more sound insulation and less harshness in the cabin too. This is one of the car's weak points, and compared to my old Focus, it is very noticeable. However, like someone mentioned, the Focus is a size larger and more insulation would mean more weight, which means less fuel economy. However, on that note, try driving a Fiesta. It is eerily quiet at any speed, and gets about the same fuel economy as the Fit. Food for thought.....
2) The armrest is a little low. One of the KBB reviewers likened leaning on it to resting against a bar while flurting with someone. It hasn't bothered me, but I do have long arms
3) The power tailgate is nifty. However, it adds cost and complexity. I don't forsee that happening soon
If there were a mid-cycle refresh, I would like more sound insulation too. Also, would like the removal of the sixth gear, or at least better gear ratios.
1) I would love to get more sound insulation and less harshness in the cabin too. This is one of the car's weak points, and compared to my old Focus, it is very noticeable. However, like someone mentioned, the Focus is a size larger and more insulation would mean more weight, which means less fuel economy. However, on that note, try driving a Fiesta. It is eerily quiet at any speed, and gets about the same fuel economy as the Fit. Food for thought.....
2) The armrest is a little low. One of the KBB reviewers likened leaning on it to resting against a bar while flurting with someone. It hasn't bothered me, but I do have long arms
3) The power tailgate is nifty. However, it adds cost and complexity. I don't forsee that happening soon
If there were a mid-cycle refresh, I would like more sound insulation too. Also, would like the removal of the sixth gear, or at least better gear ratios.
#10
05-28-2015, 08:12 PM
The biggest annoyances
- Small fuel tank; 14 gallons would take this from a "300 mile" to a "500 mile"
Another inch of rearward seat travel would be nice, but even at 5'-16" tall, I don't feel overly cramped, even on a long road trip (10-16 hours).
I agree about the 6MT ratios - I bought a CVT *because* of the poor ratios, natch
- Small fuel tank; 14 gallons would take this from a "300 mile" to a "500 mile"
Another inch of rearward seat travel would be nice, but even at 5'-16" tall, I don't feel overly cramped, even on a long road trip (10-16 hours).
I agree about the 6MT ratios - I bought a CVT *because* of the poor ratios, natch
I'm a mere 5' 14" and I agree about the seat travel.
I also agree about the ratios, but Honda won't provide a true overdrive because all those red-blooded, "Shift for yourself, dammit!" motorjournalists are too lazy to shift out of top gear on grades. If you have an excess of power this is fine, but on a car with a normal amount of power like the Fit they will interpret it as being sluggish.
#12
05-28-2015, 11:00 PM
The Fit has about the same range as every other car I've owned. Where are you driving that you NEED a 500 mile range?
#13
05-28-2015, 11:34 PM
SR45: yup, hoping for these changes in mid-cycle refresh, hopefully in 2017.
1speedbike: I agree, the Focus is in a different category. Your points about extra sound insulation adding weight & smoother ride messing with handling, but as Festibol points out the Ford Fiesta seems to have conquered those qualms to a reasonable degree.
Add to my list: an option for an auto-dimming mirror with Homelink.
A decent carpet on the floor - the one in the 2015 Fits looks exceeding cheap.
A bright light in the tailgate that would light up the area behind car when tailgate is up - I retrofitted that to some of my hatchbacks.
Also add my vote for Factory window tint & more padding on the door armrest
1speedbike: I agree, the Focus is in a different category. Your points about extra sound insulation adding weight & smoother ride messing with handling, but as Festibol points out the Ford Fiesta seems to have conquered those qualms to a reasonable degree.
Add to my list: an option for an auto-dimming mirror with Homelink.
A decent carpet on the floor - the one in the 2015 Fits looks exceeding cheap.
A bright light in the tailgate that would light up the area behind car when tailgate is up - I retrofitted that to some of my hatchbacks.
Also add my vote for Factory window tint & more padding on the door armrest
Last edited by danlisahall@comcast.net; 05-28-2015 at 11:48 PM. Reason: more thoughts
#14
05-29-2015, 09:27 AM
Window tint is limited by state and federal motor vehicle laws. The Fit probably already has the maximum amount of window tint allowed by law in the markets is which it's sold. Somewhere on this site is a chart showing the maximum window tint allowed by state. Honda wouldn't be able to exceed the most stringent state law.
I'd like to see better carpeting. The '09 Fit I owned had the cheapest carpet I ever saw in a car and the '15 is worse. The carpet mats are useless, too-cheaply made, not rubber backed and poor fitting.
A return to a gray interior would be nice, too. Black shows dust too easily and it hot in the summer.
I'd like to see better carpeting. The '09 Fit I owned had the cheapest carpet I ever saw in a car and the '15 is worse. The carpet mats are useless, too-cheaply made, not rubber backed and poor fitting.
A return to a gray interior would be nice, too. Black shows dust too easily and it hot in the summer.
#15
05-29-2015, 01:18 PM
I previously had a '00 New Beetle TDI and it would easily go 600 miles on a tank (pushed it close to 750 once or twice). Of course, my *personal* tank won't last that long, so I still had to stop every so often!
I will say that the Fit is working out to be cheaper per mile for fuel costs due to gasoline being less expensive than diesel, even though the NB averaged around 45-47mpg highway.
es
Last edited by stembridge; 05-29-2015 at 01:20 PM.
#16
05-29-2015, 01:52 PM
This one is easy; I'm not sure why this car doesn't have it already since honda has a plug and play direct replacement available. I doubt it cost much more to make. The lens from the crosstour/ Acura MDX works great. I put one in and I'm glad I did it.
OE above, replacement below. Part number on packaging. Pancake LED not included (but it's a nice addition) about $20:
OE above, replacement below. Part number on packaging. Pancake LED not included (but it's a nice addition) about $20:
Last edited by jhn; 05-29-2015 at 01:56 PM.
#17
05-29-2015, 03:33 PM
My Dad has advancing dementia and lives 16 hours away… I've put almost 20K on my Fit since I bought it last September, driving back and forth as we work with elder care attorneys and caregivers, preparing for his eventual move to an assisted care facility.
I previously had a '00 New Beetle TDI and it would easily go 600 miles on a tank (pushed it close to 750 once or twice). Of course, my *personal* tank won't last that long, so I still had to stop every so often!
I will say that the Fit is working out to be cheaper per mile for fuel costs due to gasoline being less expensive than diesel, even though the NB averaged around 45-47mpg highway.
es
I previously had a '00 New Beetle TDI and it would easily go 600 miles on a tank (pushed it close to 750 once or twice). Of course, my *personal* tank won't last that long, so I still had to stop every so often!
I will say that the Fit is working out to be cheaper per mile for fuel costs due to gasoline being less expensive than diesel, even though the NB averaged around 45-47mpg highway.
es
#18
05-29-2015, 04:03 PM
Nope. The Fit has no tint at all, and manufacturers routinely tint the rear windows of many models. I know of no US state that prohibits tint aft of the driver as long as the vehicle has a right side mirror.
#19
05-29-2015, 06:11 PM
Just get a extra 5 gallon tank and throw it in the back if you're a rugged outdoorsman. They're like $40. Problem solved.
The majority of us have gas stations everywhere, and those who dont and need more distance can just get a Civic or Accord. Or a Focus/Fiesta. Or Mazda 3. All the same really.
The Fit was originally designed as a simple city car, not a highway cruiser. It was never really conceptualized to be a Camry and cruise on the interstate at 80 mph 2k RPM for 500 miles. The whole spirit of the car is slowly turning into just a hatchback Civic. Carbon copy of every Elantra, Optima, Corolla, Focus, Cruze, etc etc etc. More tech, more comfort, more BS. Cheapen everything else to keep the price the same.
At this point I don't even think they should call it a Fit or Jazz anymore. Just make it a hatchback Civic and be done with it. This is just judging by most of the GK owners' wishlists and complaints I've seen on this site.
Bigger
Faster
Quieter
Comfort
Oh but keep the price point the same, k? Thanks.
I drove a car that was quieter on the freeway and had longish ratios, and was completely uninspiring and un-fun before. Actually two of them. One was a little less than the Fit and not as well put together and one was a little more expensive and put together much better than the Fit.
Nissan Versa
Toyota Corolla
Man those cars are so much fun to drive
I hear Toyota might be coming out with a hatchback Corolla again. It'll be perfect for some of you. Checks all your boxes.
PS
Tint is not allowed in CA on the front windows, so don't expect factory tinted glass since a large number of Fits are sold here. I didn't even bother looking at the numbers, I'm pretty confident that's true. Tint on only the rear windows makes adult Jesus cry and nobody should do it unless you've got kids with medical conditions. Just get clear tint if you're scared of the police.
That is all.
The majority of us have gas stations everywhere, and those who dont and need more distance can just get a Civic or Accord. Or a Focus/Fiesta. Or Mazda 3. All the same really.
The Fit was originally designed as a simple city car, not a highway cruiser. It was never really conceptualized to be a Camry and cruise on the interstate at 80 mph 2k RPM for 500 miles. The whole spirit of the car is slowly turning into just a hatchback Civic. Carbon copy of every Elantra, Optima, Corolla, Focus, Cruze, etc etc etc. More tech, more comfort, more BS. Cheapen everything else to keep the price the same.
At this point I don't even think they should call it a Fit or Jazz anymore. Just make it a hatchback Civic and be done with it. This is just judging by most of the GK owners' wishlists and complaints I've seen on this site.
Bigger
Faster
Quieter
Comfort
Oh but keep the price point the same, k? Thanks.
I drove a car that was quieter on the freeway and had longish ratios, and was completely uninspiring and un-fun before. Actually two of them. One was a little less than the Fit and not as well put together and one was a little more expensive and put together much better than the Fit.
Nissan Versa
Toyota Corolla
Man those cars are so much fun to drive
I hear Toyota might be coming out with a hatchback Corolla again. It'll be perfect for some of you. Checks all your boxes.
PS
Tint is not allowed in CA on the front windows, so don't expect factory tinted glass since a large number of Fits are sold here. I didn't even bother looking at the numbers, I'm pretty confident that's true. Tint on only the rear windows makes adult Jesus cry and nobody should do it unless you've got kids with medical conditions. Just get clear tint if you're scared of the police.
That is all.
#20
05-29-2015, 07:04 PM
Wanderer: your points are well taken.
I don't really know if the Fit was originally being designed to be a city car but it does shine in that role & that is basically what I use ours for. The more I think about it, while the above mentioned "improvements" would be to my liking, I should probably just be content with my Fit as my city driver & our 2015 Outback as our highway machine.
Nissan Versa. I drove the original Versa SL model about 5 yrs ago, as I recall it was a good compromise between comfort & fun. The main reason I got a Fit instead was that I do haul a lot of stuff & the Magic Seats trump Versa by a huge margin for cargo. I recently drove the 2015 Versa & it seemed like a step backwards, felt much cheaper / low rent. Fit felt like a Big step up from the Versa it this time around. Corolla is a competent, economical nice transportation module with very little verve. The Matrix was along the same lines.
Regarding Tint, guess I'm out of touch -- what's the meaning of "makes Adult Jesus cry". At least if all windows other than front are factory tinted, those who want tint get it & if they want it on front windows can have total tine way less $. Factory tint is permanent, after market much fussier.
I don't really know if the Fit was originally being designed to be a city car but it does shine in that role & that is basically what I use ours for. The more I think about it, while the above mentioned "improvements" would be to my liking, I should probably just be content with my Fit as my city driver & our 2015 Outback as our highway machine.
Nissan Versa. I drove the original Versa SL model about 5 yrs ago, as I recall it was a good compromise between comfort & fun. The main reason I got a Fit instead was that I do haul a lot of stuff & the Magic Seats trump Versa by a huge margin for cargo. I recently drove the 2015 Versa & it seemed like a step backwards, felt much cheaper / low rent. Fit felt like a Big step up from the Versa it this time around. Corolla is a competent, economical nice transportation module with very little verve. The Matrix was along the same lines.
Regarding Tint, guess I'm out of touch -- what's the meaning of "makes Adult Jesus cry". At least if all windows other than front are factory tinted, those who want tint get it & if they want it on front windows can have total tine way less $. Factory tint is permanent, after market much fussier.
Last edited by danlisahall@comcast.net; 05-29-2015 at 09:43 PM.