Prototype HDMI Enable Hardware Works! - Unofficial Honda FIT Forums


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Old 08-22-2015, 06:33 PM
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Talking Prototype HDMI Enable Hardware Works!

I will be updating this top post as progress is made!

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I have some exciting news to report to you guys!

I've spent the last couple months reverse engineering my Fit's CAN bus, building some hardware, and programming a device to enable HDMI input while not in park. Today, I finished up some prototype code, plugged it all in AND IT WORKS! I have successfully tricked the head unit into thinking its in park! Best thing about it is the reverse camera still works fine, since its a totally separate signal from the one I am messing with.

Here's my video proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffWo...ature=youtu.be

I still have a ton of documentation work to do on the Github repo (see the video description if you are interested) and a couple more tests. I need to see if the unit enables all the features that get blocked out when you are moving. I think it should work without additional code, but I want to make sure!

Next task after all that is to design a custom circuit board to house all of this. Then we can talk about beta units

I'm going to start another thread soon with a technical discussion if anyone is interested in CAN bus data, or any of the other technical aspects of this project.

Also, I would like to thank two users on here for their ongoing motivation and help with this project: jhub908 and Bassguitarist1985. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I'm off for a beer and a scuba diving trip

Update 10/2/15: Prototype PCBs and parts have been ordered and will arrive in less than week!

Update 10/5/15: I'd like to bring up the topic of donations.

Up to this point I have rejected the idea of donations since I was unsure as to whether I could actually get this thing working, but I am at a point now with my hardware that I am confident that I can deliver a working piece of hardware! If anyone is feeling generous and wants to buy me a cup of coffee to fuel my late night PCB design and soldering binges, I would greatly appreciate it

I think Paypal is probably the most convenient way - my Paypal email address is my username @gmail.com. Please choose "friends and family" when asked. If there is a more convenient way to give please let me know and I will accommodate as best I can! (bitcoins, venmo, whatever)

Thanks!!

Last edited by Ductapemaster; 11-05-2015 at 12:54 PM. Reason: Update 10/5/15
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Old 08-22-2015, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ductapemaster View Post
I have some exciting news to report to you guys!

I've spent the last couple months reverse engineering my Fit's CAN bus, building some hardware, and programming a device to enable HDMI input while not in park. Today, I finished up some prototype code, plugged it all in AND IT WORKS! I have successfully tricked the head unit into thinking its in park! Best thing about it is the reverse camera still works fine, since its a totally separate signal from the one I am messing with.

Here's my video proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffWo...ature=youtu.be

I still have a ton of documentation work to do on the Github repo (see the video description if you are interested) and a couple more tests. I need to see if the unit enables all the features that get blocked out when you are moving. I think it should work without additional code, but I want to make sure!

Next task after all that is to design a custom circuit board to house all of this. Then we can talk about beta units

I'm going to start another thread soon with a technical discussion if anyone is interested in CAN bus data, or any of the other technical aspects of this project.

Also, I would like to thank two users on here for their ongoing motivation and help with this project: jhub908 and Bassguitarist1985. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I'm off for a beer and a scuba diving trip
Thank you so much! I really appreciate all the hard work you and everyone involved had put into this. I can't wait to see it once everything is all said and done.

Enjoy your beer and scuba trip
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Old 08-22-2015, 07:40 PM
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Dude i owe you my entire 5 gallon batch of home brew brown ale im kegging right now!! You rock buddy!

Some of the other restricted features such as seeing the read out of the text messages that come in from your phone, using the screen to dial and edit any settings of the HU are a few that come to mind.

My assumption and hope is that the system status condition via CANbus data that you are changing before it hits the head unit from the body CAN data is going to enable every setting because if it is available in park then all of those settings should be available.

Another interesting part is to see if the speed variable volume control will still operate. Not that it's a big deal but I believe it may be disabled because the head unit always thinks it is in park. Don't rack your brains too much on this feature as I barely notice it myself and maybe that was the intention from Honda but if it is not present then I don't much care I'd rather have the Google Maps being able to mirror through my HDMI. Keep me posted and PM me on the next development and when you are ready to do beta testing with your refined breadboard.

I hope you realize that this forum is going to explode with joy once they see this post because it doesn't just open the door for HDMI mirroring but it also opens the door with your decoded CANbus data map to do other things both good and evil I would imagine.

Cheers!!

Last edited by Bassguitarist1985; 08-22-2015 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 08-22-2015, 08:29 PM
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This might be the first fit-related news that I have ever been excited about!
You rock.
When using google maps, does it switch over to the "phone call" screen when audio triggers?
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Old 08-22-2015, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigbadvoodooguru View Post
This might be the first fit-related news that I have ever been excited about!
You rock.
When using google maps, does it switch over to the "phone call" screen when audio triggers?
Based on the hex key condition codes that Ducktapemaster decoded it should not. If the HU thinks its always in park the HU has all the functions in that state while driving in theory.

The next thing he has to test is if the "park" status condition is "connected" to any other process such as speed volume control and the various other minor features disabled while moving showing the "saftey warning." If they truly are not connected then he has essentially unlocked the entire HU.

In the event the park and SVC are connected processes the worst is SVC will not work, the rest of the functions in theory should be available while driving as they are in park. Im 99% confident the lanewatch is uneffected as well. The backup camera which he confirmed. Those two feeds are through the B-CAN, except the backup camera trigger is via the reverse light signal, while the lanewatch is through the GCU (gauge control unit) which communicates through the B-CAN.

Complex shit but knowing his prototype works really does open the possibility for more potential intercept coding to unlock the HU completely under all driving states/conditions.

Last edited by Bassguitarist1985; 08-22-2015 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 08-23-2015, 10:21 AM
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Thank you Ducktapemaster--and all who helped--for persevering on this challenge. I wish I were technically competent to help, but I have no programming experience. I do have background as a tech in component-level PCB repair and own a hot air tool (I can do the older style smd, but not bga), and I would be able to stuff boards for prototypes, if such help is needed down the road.
Woo hoo!
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  #7  
Old 08-23-2015, 03:19 PM
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This makes me so excited! Many thanks for jumping on board and getting this going! Now I can put movies on the screen while I'm driving instead of setting up my buddy's laptop or my tablet (which rests perfectly on the climate control knobs, btw). Not that it's much safer, if at all....

Not to be that guy, but any way I could secure a beta unit when the time comes?
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  #8  
Old 08-23-2015, 04:53 PM
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Since I don't have an iPhone at the moment, how does the HondaLink navigation app work?

NOTE: Because it was confusing after I reread what I wrote... the below is me wondering how the stock apple HondaLink nav app works and interfaces with the head unit...
You plug it into the HDMI, but does the touchscreen work? Or is it display only (like this solution)? Can't imagine the touchscreen working unless the app is communicating with the head unit via Bluetooth for the touch data stream as well...



Should modify one of those inkjet printers to print out circuit boards
And yes I am interested in how you are capturing and reading the CAN BUS data Hondas use the two wires right... German cars use fiber optic CAN BUS :x

Last edited by Bigbadvoodooguru; 08-23-2015 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 08-25-2015, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigbadvoodooguru View Post
Since I don't have an iPhone at the moment, how does the HondaLink navigation app work?

... wondering how the stock apple HondaLink nav app works and interfaces with the head unit...
You plug it into the HDMI, but does the touchscreen work? Or is it display only (like this solution)? Can't imagine the touchscreen working unless the app is communicating with the head unit via Bluetooth for the touch data stream as well...
There is no android support from Hondalink, nor does there seem to be any support in the future. Supposedly Android Auto is going to be broadly pushed out to the Honda lineup, but thats a bunch of double talk BS.

To answer your other questions: The Hondalink app uses bluetooth as an interface for the touch screen. The HDMI interface is dumb, it only mirrors the display of your phone. This is not to be confused with "mirrorlink" which is a separate protocol interface all together. The HondaLink app via bluetooth sends an "unlock" code to mirror the phone letting the phone be mirrored as long as the app is in the foreground. Another forum member recently proved with a rooted iOS Iphone 5S that you can mirror anything else on the phone with Watchdog Pro. This is unfortunately not available for android.


What Ducttapemaster is proposing is unlocking the mirror function while driving via the HDMI, the touch screen would not accept any input functions, only mirror the phone. This alone is a huge unlock since it could be years (really) before Google (OOA), Apple, and MirrorLink (Car Connectivity Consortium) finish battling it out on who will dominate the Infotainment industry.

To be able to mirror google maps will be a huge plus if all that is needed is his proposed prototype interface interrupter hack device. I'm looking forward to working with Ducktapemaster helping him in any way I can to develop his device!
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:43 PM
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Amazing work. So this means we would have to take the head unit out to plug this into the back, correct? Any chance this will work for 6MT users as well?
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:51 PM
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Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TofuShop
So this means we would have to take the head unit out to plug this into the back, correct?
Yes, this unit would plug in between one of the connectors and the head unit. I'm trying to figure out how to power it as well, which may require a cable splice, or a separate cable interrupter of sorts. I'm still debating as to what is easier. I want this to be as plug and play as possible, but power is on a different connector....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TofuShop
Any chance this will work for 6MT users as well?
It should! I'm trying to design this to be platform agnostic. Its likely that this will work on other Honda models as well, and with some or no modification, 2016+ models! However I don't own any of these cars, so I will definitely need help from the community on this. There's some information to be gleaned from the Honda service website as well, but I will need to sign up for another subscription.
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Old 08-25-2015, 06:54 PM
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Ducktapemaster, we can discuss getting adapter parts in bulk from Mouser.com. I have an account with them. Depending on which adapters and how many wires are needed maybe we can figure out a coopertive how to mass produce them for the Fitfreak forum members only perhaps.
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Old 08-25-2015, 07:02 PM
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I'm happy to talk about that. I still have some engineering work to do on this before I start designing boards (mostly related to cross-trim, cross-model functionality) however. I've already purchased 20pcs of both male and female connectors and I'm looking at board design currently.

Also, I need to somehow address the legal questions around a device like this. Consider that this functionality was removed due to Honda following some voluntary guidelines published by the NHTSA for helping reduce distracted driver problems. If someone puts one of these in their car, puts on something distracting on the display and crashes, I need to be absolutely certain that none of that responsibility comes back on me. I briefly looked at how other groups/companies deal with this with similar devices, and it all looks like they have some sort of disclaimer on their website stating that their video-enable devices are meant to be used while the vehicle is in park, blah, blah, blah - but consider that they are not selling their devices under the premise of disabling a safety feature! I definitely am. This worries me a bit to be honest.

Also, I don't know how using something like this can affect one's insurance. I don't think it counts as a "modification" that they typically are interested in knowing about, like race modifications, but you never know. Also, what about factory warranties? Its likely you will have to splice into the power wires behind the dash. Does that void some or all of your car's warranty?

All questions I need to answer before I even distribute a single one of these. Sorry to sound like a buzzkill, but I'm actually seriously thinking about all of this. I'm a hobbyist, not a lawyer!
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Old 08-25-2015, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Ductapemaster View Post
....Also, I need to somehow address the legal questions around a device like this. Consider that this functionality was removed due to Honda following some voluntary guidelines published by the NHTSA for helping reduce distracted driver problems. If someone puts one of these in their car, puts on something distracting on the display and crashes, I need to be absolutely certain that none of that responsibility comes back on me. I briefly looked at how other groups/companies deal with this with similar devices, and it all looks like they have some sort of disclaimer on their website stating that their video-enable devices are meant to be used while the vehicle is in park, blah, blah, blah - but consider that they are not selling their devices under the premise of disabling a safety feature! I definitely am. This worries me a bit to be honest.

Ducktapemaster, you are absolutely correct that the NHTSA made these restrictions on HU in all vehicles, and auto makers complied. Disclaimers are a good way to start. What I will point out is that being your device will "potentially" disable a "safety feature" if used improperly, then the onus falls back to the user, not you the creator/seller who made a clear warning not to be used under unsafe conditions.

The next thought I will articulate is that if you are looking to make a profit on your device and mass distributing, e-commerce website claim as a small business etc, you may encounter potential resistance from big corporations like Honda, DOT, NHTSA, etc. HOWEVER...If you were to provide all the necessary parts and steps to create a device on a public forum, well this is now free speech, and the users who make this device use it at their own risk. I believe all work should be compensated in some form. People seem to be less anal about things when money is not involved.

Let me give you a scenario from another forum I am on. I repair generator control boards on smokstak.com. I was able to reverse engineer some common but particularly expensive PCB's. Rather than spend the $100's of dollars to replace them, I provided a parts list from Mouser.com and the people who had the know how to work on such components/devices I did a nice detailed write up. I did not provide schematics on the public website as I did not want to venture down that road for legal reasons. Parts list (this includes code files that you would likely create) and a pictorial of where the parts go/setup is more than acceptable, no company can go after you for that.

At that point, you are providing a modification that people will install at their own risk. Occasionally people ask me to work on their generator boards and I offer my services including, labor, parts and shipping, all through paypal invoices. I make note that the board is functioning at the time of repair, and offer no warranties of any kind. My internet presence, plethora of forum posts, and youtube videos seem to instill confidence in potential clients. I make sure it is understood I make no guarantees. 98% of the time I am successful at repairing the boards, and if I'm not 100% confident I can repair it I do not take the work. Since much of the know how to repair these boards I made public, I don't get as much work, but I wasn't in it for the money to begin with. Sure its great, but I fulfilled a need I had by repairing my boards and saved myself money. I shared the knowledge with the forum members that helped me. As a result my pay it forward knowledge on the control boards help was greatly received by many Still to this day even.

Here is the thread for those circuit boards as proof of concept.

SCB 83970GS / VRB 84132GS Parts List & Diagrams - SmokStak

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ductapemaster View Post
Also, I don't know how using something like this can affect one's insurance. I don't think it counts as a "modification" that they typically are interested in knowing about, like race modifications, but you never know. Also, what about factory warranties? Its likely you will have to splice into the power wires behind the dash. Does that void some or all of your car's warranty?....
What the car insurance companies don't know and can't find out cannot be used against the driver. Far as they know, they don't know shit! Now factory warranties, I'll say this. Arbitrarily adding a device to your car (whatever its function) does NOT constitute a denial of warranty. If such device is investigated to be the cause of any damage to the car (not talking about a vehicle crash btw) then Honda can deny any warranty claim related to that system/part. For such instances if it does cause problems then best to remove the device and say Winnie the Pooh did it and have it fixed!


I hope this puts some of your questions into perspective. Believe me, i share your concerns as well. whatever the application, people seem to care less when there is no money involved. I'd be willing to barter with you though! Knowledge, home brew beer, assembly assistance with the prototype, because I'm 100% committed to having your prototype to test out on my 6MT!
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Old 08-25-2015, 10:18 PM
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Thank you for the insightful response! I am absolutely working towards the goal of informing the public about the technology in the car systems and the technology I am developing within that system. It's the whole reason I am using Github to post all of my code and my discoveries! This is the perfect project where open source is the way to go - for many of the reasons you mentioned, as well as furthering the pursuit of knowledge in a general sense.

I asked pointed questions about selling these devices because I make the assumption that the market for this sort of thing is divided:
  1. The tinkerers who do not mind soldering some wires and writing a few lines of C, and who are interested in improving or changing the functionality of a device
  2. The people who want the service or ability that the device provides, but aren't interested in the technical side of things (I'll call it the plug-and-play crowd)

I imagine most people interested in this are in the latter group.

My plan is to make some sort of circuit board with connectors and interface circuitry, which the user can populate with a processor which is commercially available (much like the Arduino), or could come prepopulated with a preprogrammed processor which the user does not have to "play" with and just works. To me this looks like two versions of the board - a "developer" edition, and a "practical" edition. The developer edition could use through-hole parts so you could easily solder one up in your garage, and the practical version would be made a small as possible and maybe come with a case of some sort (at least some sort of protection for installation).

If people are technically savvy enough to make one given the materials I have provided, great! I have no problem releasing all of the data one would need to make one over the weekend. In fact, I would love it if people did this! It's a great learning opportunity. For the second case, I'd happily solder some up for people if they want one that "just works", and provide it for the cost of parts plus labor, much as you do.

Maybe I should only target the technical market - I don't really know. I need to do some more thinking on it, but it seems like a logical place to start at least!
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Old 08-25-2015, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Ductapemaster View Post
Thank you for the insightful response! ....

Maybe I should only target the technical market - I don't really know. I need to do some more thinking on it, but it seems like a logical place to start at least!

You are very welcome! I think the technical market is a perfect start. You will find that with open source, others contributing to the development will refine your initial ideas even further such as smaller package, pre-made code packets, hell who knows maybe even pre-made wire harnesses but that's a stretch! I think its safe to say most of the forum members are in the technical group too.

IMHO, don't bother catering to the "plug and play" crowd, at least at first. They can easily find a friend who is of the technical crowd to build them the device for some sort of compensation. Your contribution will be a perfect learning opportunity yes! Necessity is the mother of invention and innovation.
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Old 08-25-2015, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Bassguitarist1985
You are very welcome! I think the technical market is a perfect start. You will find that with open source, others contributing to the development will refine your initial ideas even further such as smaller package, pre-made code packets, hell who knows maybe even pre-made wire harnesses but that's a stretch! I think its safe to say most of the forum members are in the technical group too.

IMHO, don't bother catering to the "plug and play" crowd, at least at first. They can easily find a friend who is of the technical crowd to build them the device for some sort of compensation. Your contribution will be a perfect learning opportunity yes! Necessity is the mother of invention and innovation.
You know you're totally right. I'm thinking too far out there...we'll call it a symptom of working in the real engineering field. Always thinking about the product!
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Old 08-25-2015, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Ductapemaster View Post
You know you're totally right. I'm thinking too far out there...we'll call it a symptom of working in the real engineering field. Always thinking about the product!

In my day job of Supply Chain Logistics Manager and IT (computer systems have to handle that business piece with some serious integration/functionality) we call that "juggling many balls" or "looking at the problem from multiple angles." Looking at the big picture knowing your target audience is also the best advice when deploying something that is not the inherent of the person's skill set. Making something user friendly is not an easy task. Lots of details to make minimum input result in maximum output to carry out a task.

Even I suffer from the same OCD meticulous over-detailed nature of engineering my business space. I think many would prefer the "K-I-S-S" philosophy, but sometimes that's difficult for those who have to track every detail because its our job.

"K-I-S-S" = Keep It Simple Stupid
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Old 08-26-2015, 11:45 AM
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@Ducktapemaster:
I am wondering about aspect ratio on the display. This is controlled completely by the iPhone, of course, so I suspect all we will be able to see on the home screen and apps that don't support landscape will be the quite small portrait screen--which is too small. I know that there is an app to turn everything into landscape, but I think it is only for iPhones that are jailbroken. Is there a solution for non-jailbroken phones?
A second question, will your solution also allow access to other features in the headunit that are presently locked out when in motion? I am especially interested in being able to adjust the bass and treble while driving. Why they locked these out is a mystery to me.
Thanks for all your work on this project. If there is anything you need, let us know. It sounds like you have a number of techie friends here. I was an electronic technician for years and ran a 3rd-party Mac motherboard repair facility for 5 years, so I am skilled at repair and assembly--and source parts from the grey market.
I agree that the kit approach is the best strategy for avoiding legal problems. Others have gone this direction, and it seems to provide the needed protection.
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Old 08-27-2015, 05:43 AM
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@Ducktapemaster:

A second question, will your solution also allow access to other features in the headunit that are presently locked out when in motion? I am especially interested in being able to adjust the bass and treble while driving. Why they locked these out is a mystery to me.
Random thing to point out, but my bass and treble adjustments are definitely not locked out while driving (adjusted them constantly going to and from Florida, depending on whether we were watching a movie or listening to music). What model is yours? Mine's a EX 6-speed.
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