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TPMS question.

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  #1  
Old 09-23-2017, 09:46 AM
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Question TPMS question.

Ok new to the Fit so please bear with me. My son bought a 2015 EX not quite a month ago. I'd look myself, but I don't have access to his car at this time. I'm wondering if the Fit uses a normal tire valve stem or one with a TPMS sensor built in?

It seems many cars are starting to use the wheel speed / ABS sensors rather than those special expensive & troublesome TPMS sensor valve stems.


Thanks for your help.
 
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:52 AM
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The GK uses the 'passive' type. No sensors in the stems.
 
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Old 09-23-2017, 11:20 AM
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You'll wish your car had TPMS instead of the crappy passive monitoring system that uses wheel speed. My dash light has been on for the last 5 months. I check my air pressure and reset the button. Ten minutes later or as soon as I take a trip that's at highway speeds it turns back on. Crap system. Sure it might save Honda money over the TPMS in the wheels and satisfies government requirements, but kind of defeats the purpose when the light is always saying there's an issue when there really isn't. The day that I have an issue I really won't have any warning other than the signs we went by before it became a requirement.

Before you blame my air pressure gauge. I have three. Two I use when racing. One is $180 Longacre Racing, $140 Joe's Racing and the $80 Longacre 3-1/2" that I use for daily. All read the same amount of pressure when compared to each other. I've tested mine against fellow racers gauges and had the same results. I've also tested my gauges against cars that have TPMS where each individual tire pressure is listed on the dash. Again my gauges match those readings.
 

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Old 09-23-2017, 11:47 AM
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Yes, The Fit (2016) has the passive speed sensor TPMS.
And Yes....
I don't like it.
Mine works in mixed highway and city driving, that is, the light doesn't illuminate. But let me take a highway trip where I'm driving at highway speeds for more than an hour and EVERY TIME the TPMS light illuminates.

SAFETY FIRST!

So I'm forced to pull over and check it. But so far? Every time my PSI is fine. But as a system that is suppose to make driving safer and more convenient...false alerts are a PIA.

My 2010 Honda Fit had the active sensor based TPMS, and I never had a false alert.
I'm going to ask the dealership at my next check-up, if anything can be tested or done, but so far, NOT impressed with the passive TPMS system.

To the OP? Go buy yourself a good tire gauge. With the passive speed sensor TPMS system in the Fit, you'll be checking you PSI a whole lot.
 
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Old 09-23-2017, 12:11 PM
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As others have said, passive system. I've not had false alerts and I use the cheap air pressure gauge.

​​My only complaint is the system is slow to react. Also apparently it doesn't work when going under 25 mph. I hit a pothole and could immediately feel the loss of the pressure, but the system didn't alert while I was limping it home (only a mile from home).
 
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Old 09-23-2017, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 2Rismo2 View Post
As others have said, passive system. I've not had false alerts and I use the cheap air pressure gauge.

​​My only complaint is the system is slow to react. Also apparently it doesn't work when going under 25 mph. I hit a pothole and could immediately feel the loss of the pressure, but the system didn't alert while I was limping it home (only a mile from home).
Out of curiosity have you taken any- long hour or more highway drives?
I only seem to get the false alert in that situation.
I can go indefinitely with mixed highway and city.
 
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Old 09-23-2017, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by fitchet View Post
Out of curiosity have you taken any- long hour or more highway drives?
I only seem to get the false alert in that situation.
I can go indefinitely with mixed highway and city.
I've done a 7 hour ride trip and the tpms didn't give any false alerts going or coming back. Speeds at 70+ for at least 4 hours, then a lunch break and another 3 hours of driving.
 
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Old 09-23-2017, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by fitchet View Post
Out of curiosity have you taken any- long hour or more highway drives?
I only seem to get the false alert in that situation.
I can go indefinitely with mixed highway and city.
I live in the country so about 10 minutes drive in three directions will put me at 55mph. Driving under 45 mph or mixed city speeds don't seem to be an issue. I have zero issues in the winter. When temps get above 60 degrees that's when the light goes permanently on. Still a crap system that Honda must have issues with? About 6 months ago Honda sent me a questioner about what I'd like to see for the next generation. One of the questions was TPMS in the tires.
 
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Old 09-24-2017, 02:24 PM
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Thanks for the info folks.

I may change my opinion, but as the guy who has to check the tires on my wife's MINI with TPMS sensors built into the valve stem all I can say is they really do SUCK!!! The batteries are not replaceable so as the car ages & the batteries die one by one I've had to replace the sensors. A real pain in the arse for sure. I'd take a false warning light any day of the week. My wife has learned to look at her tires before she drives off & how to reset the system.

On my GTI that uses passive sensors I haven't seen a tire light in almost 3 years.
 
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Old 09-24-2017, 03:14 PM
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The GK5 Fit (2015 to now) uses an indirect tire pressure monitoring system and like mentioned it uses the vehicle's wheel speed sensors to "keep track" of tire pressure by noting differences in wheel speed. It compares wheel speed axle to axle (front tires and back), side to side (driver front/rear tires and passenger's), as well as diagonally (driver front to pass. rear and opposite).

This is also a MUCH more simpler and cost effective system than the prior headache featuring actual sensors BUT people do have issues with the system on occasion... Typically user error/lack of knowledge with the system or a drastic enough difference in tire diameter or speed to trigger error codes.

Generally speaking... The system MUST BE initialized/relearned after either the tire pressure has been adjusted, tires have been rotated or replaced, or a combination of the two. This is a must since the system takes note of the rolling diameter of the tire which is needed in order for the to determine whether tire pressure/wheel speed meets or exceeds the system's threshold for determining what is a under/over inflated tire or not.

In addition to that, the relearn process generally takes about 20 to 30 minutes of accumulated drive time. It's typically best to adjust pressure and reset system prior to driving while tire pressure is cold. This way the pressure is confirmed to be at the vehicle's spec (listed in the driver's door jam) and the system will begin to pick up the tire diameter right then and there on that drive. Furthermore, it is common to see the tire light occasionally flash while the system is relearning. This is normal and will stop when the relearn is complete.

Also from what I've seen first hand... continuously resetting the system when the tires are under inflated can and will set hard codes that have been known to require a dealer visit to clear. In addition to that drastic differences in tread depth (even with the same size and model tire) can and will set TPMS warnings. For example, a Honda with this indirect system... if it has three tires are at 10/32nds tread depth and one is at 3/32nds, there is a very good chance that the TPMS will trigger a warning or fault to the smaller rolling diameter/faster wheel speed coming from that worn tire.

So long story short... This system pretty much hinges on proper tire maintenance pressure and tire rotation wise. Check tire pressure monthly (spare included... not needed but good habit ), rotate your tires regularly (every oil change if you go by the maintenance minder OR 5 to 7.5k miles generally speaking), and when tire replacement comes replace tires as a set if possible... if not pairs.**

**Yes, I understand everyone has their own budgets to deal with and if the tires are wearing evenly then most replace the set entirely anyway. In situations were one tire gets an irreparable puncture or blows out, you may try replacing that one tire... so long as the tread depth is not absurdly different from the other three tires. But do know that the system may pick up the difference in depth and may code.
 
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Old 09-24-2017, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Hootie View Post
This is also a MUCH more simpler and cost effective system than the prior headache featuring actual sensors BUT people do have issues with the system on occasion... Typically user error/lack of knowledge with the system .
Sorry, but not in my case.
I read my owners manual, and what Honda calls it is re calibrating the system. Which I have done in every needed circumstance.

I also would argue the usage of the term "simpler". Look at all the factors...random and changeable, that are being evaluated by the system just to supposedly determine the PSI?

Is a system that is montioring rotation speed and diameter to TRY to determine the current PSI simpler than a system that simply uses actual sensors dedicated to only monitoring the PSI?

I kind of think the sensor that reads PSI directly and then knows when the actual PSI drops is a much simpler system than co-opting information about speed and supposed tire rotation to determine a supposed PSI drop has happened.

Cheaper? Yeah. When and if you have to replace sensors.

Honestly, I don't care what "type" of TPMS system my vehicle has, as long as it works. If my Honda Fit didn't routinely give me false TPMS illuminations, I'd probably be in this thread talking about how great indirect TPMS monitoring systems are...
But that is not the case, and not due to user error or ignorance. And evidently I'm not the only one that has experienced similar failures from the system.

Yes, if you buy a newer Honda with the indirect TPMS? Learn when and how to start and execute the TPMS re calibration process. For sure if you don't? You will get a code.
Unfortunately, you may also get an illumination...even if you do everything you are suppose to do, and have maintained the tires perfectly.
 
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Old 09-24-2017, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Hootie View Post
This is also a MUCH more simpler and cost effective system than the prior headache featuring actual sensors BUT people do have issues with the system on occasion... Typically user error/lack of knowledge with the system or a drastic enough difference in tire diameter or speed to trigger error codes.
User error? Really? Like it's rocket science to air up tires while cold to the recommended tire pressure listed in the door jamb and reset a button?

Generally speaking... The system MUST BE initialized/relearned after either the tire pressure has been adjusted, tires have been rotated or replaced, or a combination of the two. This is a must since the system takes note of the rolling diameter of the tire which is needed in order for the to determine whether tire pressure/wheel speed meets or exceeds the system's threshold for determining what is a under/over inflated tire or not.


In addition to that, the relearn process generally takes about 20 to 30 minutes of accumulated drive time. It's typically best to adjust pressure and reset system prior to driving while tire pressure is cold. This way the pressure is confirmed to be at the vehicle's spec (listed in the driver's door jam) and the system will begin to pick up the tire diameter right then and there on that drive. Furthermore, it is common to see the tire light occasionally flash while the system is relearning. This is normal and will stop when the relearn is complete.
I understand how the system works in theory. Again, I have $300-$400 in air gauges that are made for professional and amateur auto racers. I rotate my tires about every 5K miles. I set my tire pressure when cold to the recommendation in the door jamb. The system seems to have issues with relearning after my frequent tire rotations?



Also from what I've seen first hand... continuously resetting the system when the tires are under inflated can and will set hard codes that have been known to require a dealer visit to clear. In addition to that drastic differences in tread depth (even with the same size and model tire) can and will set TPMS warnings. For example, a Honda with this indirect system... if it has three tires are at 10/32nds tread depth and one is at 3/32nds, there is a very good chance that the TPMS will trigger a warning or fault to the smaller rolling diameter/faster wheel speed coming from that worn tire.

I have three sets of wheels and tires for my Fit. A set of snow tires on steel wheels, a set of 205/50R16 Bridgestone RE-71R on some Kosei wheels for when I race the car, and the original wheels. All are rotated frequently. So you're saying it's possible that changing winter to summer, to race and back to summer potentially caused issues with the system and triggered some hard code? Again it's a crap system if that is the case. Many who live in Northern climates have more than one set of wheels and tires.

So long story short... This system pretty much hinges on proper tire maintenance pressure and tire rotation wise. Check tire pressure monthly (spare included... not needed but good habit ), rotate your tires regularly (every oil change if you go by the maintenance minder OR 5 to 7.5k miles generally speaking), and when tire replacement comes replace tires as a set if possible... if not pairs.**
I probably check my tire pressures at minimum once a week when the temperature is consistent. With temperature swings the pressure is checked more often. At minimum the tires are rotated every 5K miles. If I race the car, when I switch back to the daily wheels most of the time the tires get rotated because they're already off the car.

My other car that gets frequently raced. It has TPMS in the wheels. It's simple. I put my race wheels/tires on and the dash light goes on because there isn't sensors in those wheels. When I put my daily wheels on with the TPMS then the light goes off usually by the time I reach the end of my block. I've never had any issue with the four cars I've owned with sensors in the wheels. I can see over time where they might need replacement because of battery issues. Most likely by that time someone will need new tires anyway. Personally, I rather spend $100 every five years for new TPMS as part of planned maintenance than deal with a finicky system that only seems to function properly when new until the first time the tires are rotated. Because mine hasn't worked properly since that rotation.
 
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Old 09-24-2017, 10:24 PM
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I wonder if you guys having problems have faulty speed sensors. If there was a bigger problem I think there would be a lot more reports.
 
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Old 09-25-2017, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by 2Rismo2 View Post
I wonder if you guys having problems have faulty speed sensors. If there was a bigger problem I think there would be a lot more reports.
I plan to bring it up at my next service interval. Although I don't expect much. Since the only way to get it to manifest is to go take a long hour plus highway drive.
I'll let you guys know if Honda admits to a problem and/or can offer a solution.
 
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:33 PM
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Hey guys, sorry for delayed reply. Been busy for the last few days and been bouncing back and forth between replies for you two.

Originally Posted by fitchet View Post
Sorry, but not in my case.
I read my owners manual, and what Honda calls it is re calibrating the system. Which I have done in every needed circumstance.

I also would argue the usage of the term "simpler". Look at all the factors...random and changeable, that are being evaluated by the system just to supposedly determine the PSI?

Is a system that is montioring rotation speed and diameter to TRY to determine the current PSI simpler than a system that simply uses actual sensors dedicated to only monitoring the PSI?
"Re-calibrate", "relearn", "initialize"... all synonyms in the subject of resetting TPMS.

The system is indirectly monitoring tire pressure by monitoring and comparing the wheel speed/overall diameter of each the 4 tires. Once the system is initialized or prompted to reset learn each tires' O.D. to use as its baseline to compare to the TPMS' threshold to alert if a tire is under inflated or in some cases over inflated.

As for random factors...There honestly aren't too many. Tire pressure, tread depth, and wheel speed sensor functionality are the primary factors. I'm sure vehicle steering angle and yaw do have a factor as well but are addressed/factored in via control module(s).

Assuming that tires are at full tread or an even tread depth here... You could be running the stock 185/55R16 Firestone FT740 or a 205/50R16 Yokohama S Drive at the factory for EX/EX-L/Sport pressure of 33 PSI front and 32 rear without any issue TPMS wise since they're both 24 inches in O.D.

Once the tire's O.D. has been established from the system relearn (24 inches in this case), it will use that value as its base line and factor it with wheel speed along with vehicle steering angle and yaw to compensate for different wheel speeds and tire compression/decompression while turning.

When the PCM sees a large enough fluctuation in wheel speed from that learned O.D (again 24 inches) then that will be the time that the system prompts either a low tire warning soft code that can be cleared during initialization OR a TPMS hard code that needs to be cleared. Again, the hard codes typically set when there are major differences in tire sizes and/or frequent resets with tire pressure incorrect (typically WAY too low and out of vehicle's threshold range before resetting).

Referring back to the situation where I've seen TPMS errors due to tread depth... The vehicle was a 2014 CR-V EX with 225/65R17 Conti Crosscontacts of mixed tread depths (O.D. when new is 28.5 inches according to Tire Rack). Front tires were at 11/32nds, driver rear 7/32nds, pass. rear at 3/32nds. Even thought the tires ARE the same brand, size, and correct pressure the 7/32nds difference in the least and most worn tires was drastic enough to trigger the low tire warning.

So with that said and using 28.5 inch as our new tire base... 7/32nds = 0.21875. This would make the least worn tire O.D. 28.46875 inches and the most worn tire O.D. 28.28125 inches. I'm not going to go and do all the additional math to see what the wheel speeds will be at X MPH but that difference in tire O.D. does create domino effect as wheel speed increases.

Now... Between the two TPM systems (with and without wheel sensors) you are look at this part wise...

Sensor-less TPMS: Tire pressure, tire tread depth, valve stems and wheel speed sensor condition/functionality. You may also list the PCM or VSA module as a factor as well if you want to consider steering angle and yaw.

Sensor'ed TPMS: Tire pressure, sensor condition (battery and case), valve stems, valve stem seals (separate from the stems), TPMS control unit, and TPMS receiver unit as well as the 4 initiators needed (1 per sensor) in these models. I believe the later two are typically in Odysseys, Ridgelines, and Pilots that actually tell tire pressure values... I honestly slept since then and do not clearly recall. Plus there is also the additional wiring to factor into consideration for this system.

Thankfully our Fits had gotten the simpler of the two systems available at the time.

I kind of think the sensor that reads PSI directly and then knows when the actual PSI drops is a much simpler system than co-opting information about speed and supposed tire rotation to determine a supposed PSI drop has happened.

Cheaper? Yeah. When and if you have to replace sensors.

Honestly, I don't care what "type" of TPMS system my vehicle has, as long as it works. If my Honda Fit didn't routinely give me false TPMS illuminations, I'd probably be in this thread talking about how great indirect TPMS monitoring systems are...
But that is not the case, and not due to user error or ignorance. And evidently I'm not the only one that has experienced similar failures from the system.

Yes, if you buy a newer Honda with the indirect TPMS? Learn when and how to start and execute the TPMS re calibration process. For sure if you don't? You will get a code.
Unfortunately, you may also get an illumination...even if you do everything you are suppose to do, and have maintained the tires perfectly.
I THINK I may have touched on both the "simplicity' of the system in the reply above this quote as well as what you can try to get your TPMS to properly function in the first comment to Rob H. This will be referring to the TPMS hard reset.

Originally Posted by Rob H View Post
User error? Really? Like it's rocket science to air up tires while cold to the recommended tire pressure listed in the door jamb and reset a button?
For some people, yes. You do have to remember that we ARE living in a society were people do get mad and sue after getting burnt by drinking hot coffee as well as voted for darn dead gorilla named "Harambe" unfortunately.

On a regular basis I see people who inflate their tires to either the max pressure for seating tire beads listed on the sidewall or just adding air "because the tire looks flat" opposed to the manufacture's spec.

For people who have some knowledge with vehicle maintenance, like quite a few of us on the forum... Going by manufacture spec is already second nature.

I understand how the system works in theory. Again, I have $300-$400 in air gauges that are made for professional and amateur auto racers. I rotate my tires about every 5K miles. I set my tire pressure when cold to the recommendation in the door jamb. The system seems to have issues with relearning after my frequent tire rotations?

I have three sets of wheels and tires for my Fit. A set of snow tires on steel wheels, a set of 205/50R16 Bridgestone RE-71R on some Kosei wheels for when I race the car, and the original wheels. All are rotated frequently. So you're saying it's possible that changing winter to summer, to race and back to summer potentially caused issues with the system and triggered some hard code? Again it's a crap system if that is the case. Many who live in Northern climates have more than one set of wheels and tires.
It may indeed be possible that there is a bit of a learning conflict with frequent tire swaps. I personally swap between my stock 195/55R16s and 215/45R17s on my 2016 CR-Z with this same system periodically. Tire diameters are a smidge different but still no issues as of yet.

Maybe you would need to do a hard reset with your system?

It may not be listed in the owner's manual. You'll need to initialize the TPMS relearn 3 times in order to do the hard reset. This will clear ALL of the prior data stored from previous TPMS initialization/relearns and starts from scratch.

The sequence is to press and hold the reset/initialize button until the tire light does its usual two rapid flashes. After this, wait at least 5 seconds then press and hold the reset/initialization button again until the light flashes twice... again. You will need to do this a total of 3 times back to back. After the third time, the low tire light will illuminate for maybe a second or two then turn off. This confirms that the hard reset procedure has been done and all the prior stored data has been cleared.

Give it a try and let me know your results.

I probably check my tire pressures at minimum once a week when the temperature is consistent. With temperature swings the pressure is checked more often. At minimum the tires are rotated every 5K miles. If I race the car, when I switch back to the daily wheels most of the time the tires get rotated because they're already off the car.

My other car that gets frequently raced. It has TPMS in the wheels. It's simple. I put my race wheels/tires on and the dash light goes on because there isn't sensors in those wheels. When I put my daily wheels on with the TPMS then the light goes off usually by the time I reach the end of my block. I've never had any issue with the four cars I've owned with sensors in the wheels. I can see over time where they might need replacement because of battery issues. Most likely by that time someone will need new tires anyway. Personally, I rather spend $100 every five years for new TPMS as part of planned maintenance than deal with a finicky system that only seems to function properly when new until the first time the tires are rotated. Because mine hasn't worked properly since that rotation.
Similar tire rotation habit and wheel setups here with my GD, I just do not check pressure nearly as frequently due to how little I drive it.

The thing I hate about that system though (aside from not having a display to see actual pressure)... If there is a communication issue with the sensors, the system typically takes about 20 to 30 minutes to set a DTC. At least from what I've been seeing for the last 4 years or so frequent wheel swaps anyway.

As for tire sensor life, I've been seeing an inconsistent life span for sensors throughout the range of Hondas that pass through at work. Some last 2 years, some 5... Occasionally some people will get 7 or 8 years out of their sensors before they fail.

I'm running on almost 10 years with OEM sensors and so far so good. I think it might be because they're usually in their "sleep" state from being off the car for long periods and only "wake up" or transmit once they see wheels speeds of 28 MPH and up. (That speed typically forces both sensor "wake up" as well as clears low tire lights as well just for the record. )
 
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Old 03-10-2018, 08:58 AM
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My TPMS light also is a PITA...
3 times in 900 miles since new.
check pressure, adjust up a Lb, adjust down a Lb...all good.
hold the button light goes off....
Next highway drive over 30 minutes, light comes on.....
I guess I need to go back to TPMS school.
 
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Old 03-11-2018, 07:02 AM
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Bought a 2016 in November 2016. Immediately installed our winter tires formerly used on our 2011 FIT mounted on separate wheels and pressed the button as per the manual. In April 2017 we switched back to summer tires and pressed the button as outlined in manual. In November we switched back to the same winter tires again and pressed the button again. So in 23,000 miles of winter, summer, some city, and some highway driving we have never seen a TPMS light come on. We love the system and are very happy we do not have to mess with wheel mounted TPMS sensors anymore. We just followed the directions in the manual. Thank you Honda.
 
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Old 03-13-2018, 09:47 AM
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My wife's '10 Kia Forte SX has the sensors, have never had a "false alert" on either that or my '15 LX. I'm prompt with checking tire pressures often, heck, tires are the only thing holding you on the road. Have not had to use the spare tire on either car (yet...probably just jinxed myself), but I'd imagine that would throw a light, yes?
 
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Old 08-25-2018, 10:30 PM
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You can buy an aftermarket system that has tiny air pressure gauges that screw onto the valve stems and radio the pressure back to a sensor you stick onto the dash somewhere. They are not expensive. Do they work out well? I don't know. But they are easy to replace. You don't have to unmount the tire to replace one.
 
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