Hi all, I have a 2012 Fit. Back in around September I did a project where I completely removed the calipers from the brake lines to completely clean them, and replaced the OEM pistons, square-cut seals, and dust boot covers with Centric pistons, Dorman square-cute seals, and Dorman dust boot covers.

Ever since doing all this work the firm brake pedal I once had seems to be gone forever. I have bled the brakes five times, starting from the driver side front, then going clockwise (just like the Bosch Service manual says to do), but still have squishy brakes; I bought an OBD2 reader to activate the ABD and do an ABS brake bleed, but still have squishy brakes; I even tried doing a Master Cylinder bench bleed, with the MC still attached to the speed booster, opening and closing the two bleeder nuts about 15-20 times total, while lovingly banging on the MC every-once-in-a-while with my wrench, but still have squishy brakes; and after all hope was lost I finally swallowed my pride and took it to the Boch Honda Stealership a couple days ago, paid an absurd amount of money for them to apparently do a pressure bleed (customers cannot actually see the mechanics doing work, so who knows if they did anything), using their pressure equipment, BUT STILL HAVE SQUISHY BRAKES! 😫😭

I am at a total loss! What a nightmare.

While at the stealership the technician advisor said that it could be the brake pads, so I paid about $72 for OEM brakes pads, installed them, and still have the same problem. He even mentioned that the filter screen under the brake reservoir cap can cause brake pressure loss, but I had cleaned that a couple months ago, so that's not the issue.

Maybe the aftermarket Dorman and Centric hardware are garbage and I should have used OEM parts instead? Moreover, while cleaning the calipers, there was some rust I shaved off a bit where the square-cut seal and dust boot cover sits, so maybe that has impacted brake pressure? I've read removing that can compromise the calipers.

Also, I did install new, aftermarket brake pads and rotors after re-installing the calipers, but they said the rotors look completely fine, so that's good to know.

If it helps to know, when I had the calipers off I plugged the brake line with 3/16" plastic tubing and clamped it off to prevent brake fluid from leaking (please see image directly below). Maybe that caused pressure to build up in the lines, causing damage, or something?


Final thoughts: I do not have any leaks that I am aware of, because my brake fluid stays the same level, even after many months of driving. Also, the brake booster seems to be fine, because when the car is off and I pump the brake pedal, it builds up pressure until it becomes rock solid.

I would greatly appreciate any advice. Thank you very much, gents.

 

So I've been down your road and ended up going full retard by replacing all four calipers and switching to DOT4 when flushing the system. Tremendous end result, this car can remove flesh from bone under heavy braking. Went to '00 Integra type R calipers and 280mm '06 mini cooper disc brakes. Rears converted to 11 inch discs from a RSX. Replaced the rear brake lines with braided steel lines, left the front alone. Brake feel IMO is perfect, firm but yields ever so slightly in low application to make regular commuting easy.

Mine were kinda sad from new, but my previous experience with braking at that age was my dad's '01 Pt Cruiser (if Chrysler did anything right with that car it was the brakes, holy shit they would haul down) and I thought this was just normal.

 

Before you take another step, I'd find a used 2nd gen fit and test drive it to feel its brakes just to make sure you're not driving yourself crazy. Sometimes you'll get an idea of how firm braking is supposed to feel in your head, but the vacuum assist will trick you into making it feel mushy when it's really not.

 

@Red05 Maybe I need to replace all the brake lines, front two calipers, MC, and speed booster, and then I'll be good to go? 😫 I hope not, because that would be weird since those parts were operating fine immediately before taking the calipers off. However, I did detach the brake hoses and cleaned them up, so maybe during that process I damaged them somehow? Any recommendations on an aftermarket brand for brake hoses on Rockauto.com?

Thank you for the suggestion. I have been driving this vehicle since January 2015, so I know for a fact there is definitely a difference in the feel of the brake pedal compared to what it used to be before I took the calipers off. Before, all I had to do was press down on the brake pedal a few inches and the firmness would ensue. However, now the firmness is much further down, and a brake pedal that does nothing for quite a long distance before said firmness occurs.

I was reading this brake test article that says to clamps the brake hoses, and do various tests, to find out the answer, but then read online elsewhere that clamping the brake hose is a very bad idea, since it can be damaged by the clamping.

 

Sounds like air in the brake lines somewhere. Try bleeding all the calipers by using a narrow tube and a small bucket of extra brake fluid to make sure you're not taking in air when you bleed each of the calipers. Just loosen the bleed fitting and attach the thin tube and submerge the end in the bucket with extra brake fluid. Flush the system from the the master cylinder to each of the calipers until all the fluid is clear and clean. I put my extra fluid back in the can to be reused for the same purpose later. Keep it separate to avoid installing the old stuff in your car. Brake fluid absorbs moisture from the air so avoid putting the old stuff in your brakes, although getting the air out is the primary thing!

 

@claycolvin Have done exactly that five times, but thank you.

Like I said, I brought my car to the stealership and they did a pressure bleed as well, but to no avil. =/

 

Defective master cylinder?

 

Yes the master cylinder is what I would suspect. You rebuilt the calipers and now the master cylinder is feeling old and weak. My father used to say, new parts can cause old parts to fail sooner if they interact with the new parts. Best of luck.

 

As long as you're just clamping the rubber brake line you should be ok. I've seen brake lines with a sort of plastic/metallic sleeve on VWs, which would be damaged from clamping.

 

Interesting. I wonder how the MC would be so affected by just changing the piston, square-cut seal, and dust boot cover? I'm not an engineer, but I suppose anything is possible.

I see. Any idea if the flexible brake hose is rubber all the way through, or I wonder if it has internals that one would need to be aware of before clamping down?

Edit: Now here is a wonder: I just had the e-brake on, pushed down my brake pedal, put the car in drive, took my foot off the brake pedal, and when I pushed on the brake pedal with the e-brake still engaged the feel of the brake pedal felt almost just like it originally felt! Thus, I guess, perhaps, mayhap my drum brakes need some adjusting again, because I did end up changing out the shoes after doing the calipers. However, even before I put new shoes in I still had the squishy brakes. This is an interesting discovery, regardless.

 

that sounds like the self adjusters might be seized or need a bit of an assist. Check this out maybe? Self adjusters

 

Unless you're overtightening the hose it shouldn't damage it. When doing brakes I use a pair of vice grips and put a rag around it.

I did my drums a few days ago and replaced the wheel cylinders. After bleeding all 4 wheels I drove in reverse and slammed on the brakes probably 20 times and that was enough to set the self adjusters. If you didn't reset the self adjusters after doing drums that would make the pedal feel spongey.

But if the self adjusters doesn't fix it my guess is your master cylinder is defective. You've already bled the wheels 5 times and the dealership probably bled your brakes right. Generally the caliper seals would cause a spongy feel if they were leaking - if you aren't losing fluid then the master cylinder makes the most sense, especially if it was replaced with a cheaper aftermarket unit. Why did you replace it in the first place? And if you think you're getting ripped off by taking it to the dealership why not get an opinion from an independent mechanic?

 

First off, I would not start replacing parts like brake hoses or the master cylinder, when they all worked before you rebuilt the calipers. Your brakes started having problems after you personally rebuilt the calipers. You've taken the car to the dealership and had them pressure bleed the brakes with no change in the sloppy braking..

I'd buy rebuilt front calipers by a quality rebuilder like A1 Cordon. Replace the calipers and then have someone assist you that is familiar with brake bleeding. Bleed the brakes starting with the LF, then RF, then RR and last the LR. Refill the master cylinder after bleeding each wheel cylinder. Don't let the master cylinder go dry during each wheel cylinder bleeding. When you finish, I think that your braking quality will be restored.

 

Chevydan may be correct. I rebuilt my calipers on an old Nissan Pickup truck I owned and they worked fine so it's hard to say which is not working correctly either the calipers or the master cylinder since they work together to make the brakes work. Do these vehicles have a proportioning valve in the brake lines? My old Nissan Pickup had one that had to be bled to correct the brakes after the master cylinder was replaced. Just a thought. Best of luck.

 

check your slide pins in the front calipers. if they are stuck or have too much sil glide in the boots(pins back them selves out of the bracket when the caliper isn't attached) it could give you a soft pedal. Also check the pad fitment. if they are really stuck in the bracket to where you need to tap on the pads to move them that will also give you a soft pedal.

I'm a dealer tech and those things I mentioned are a common oversight in my shop.

 

St Gemma, have you tried just doing 10-15 hard reverse stops to actuate the rear auto-adjusters? Your earlier post sounds like you've basically confirmed the issue is not anything related to your front brakes, since the pedal feel is good with the e-brake engaged. That points to a simple adjustment issue from where I'm standing.

 

You should adjust your rear brakes while working on them...

 

Let me congratulate you on your efforts and diligence! Not many people would take such care and patience as you have done. Can't think of anything you've missed. If I might make a suggestion, from my experience with my '09 Fit, the rear drum brake ratcheting adjusters have a habit of not adjusting the brake shoes as they wear. Backing up and braking sharply several times is supposed to make them adjust. I have cleaned and lubed the adjusters, but this doesn't help. Every year or so you just have to rotate them out a few clicks until a slight drag is felt when turning the drum, and the e-brake should only come up a few clicks or so and feel quite firm. Try to gently pull forward with the e-brake on, if the car moved easily or the e-brake has a long travel, the adjusters probably need a few clicks. You may feel a longer pedal travel before a firm application is felt, because the wheel cylinders are expanding further before the shoes reach the drums. This can feel like a spongy pedal.

 

When I bought my 09 a year ago the brakes were soft. I bled all the things and did the reverse braking efforts. I ended up just adjusting the rear shoes by hand until the correct amount of drag was present. Brakes are solid now.

 

The Fit's rear adjusters aren't great, same as you. I have to manually click my '09's adjusters every year or so. I've also tried HARD backup stops with both pedal and E-brake application. Just doesn't do it well enough.