JUN chromoly fw

Not sure how much weight it sheds compared to stock, but will try to find out from JUN. This could be very beneficial in getting the Fit up to speed. They offer 2 versions, a high street type (3.8kg-8.36lbs) and a standard type(4.1kg-9.02lbs).

EDIT: Did some more digging on their site and the stock GE8 flywheel is 6.8kg(14.96lbs). Looks like I will be spending more money, they are not really cheap with the damn $uck being what it is, currently ¥79/$1. 6.6lbs weight reduction right at the engine will translate nicely to the wheels seeing more power.

 

nice find, but remember that it will give you better off the line power, but you will suffer up top when cruising on the interstate because it takes a heavier foot to keep momentum lost when they lighten it

 

Who cruises on the interstate?!?! hahaha

I never had any negative effects from a lightened flywheel in any of my previous Hondas and they all were in the neighborhood of 3.6~4.2kg.

 

Agreed. I have several engines with chromoly flywheels and love them. When you go from 19lbs stock to 8-11lbs with a better friction surface it makes a big difference. With that and the removal of my balance shafts throttle response is MUCH crisper and they absolutely scream through the rev range.

Just stay away from aluminum flywheels with removable friction steels like some of the Fidanzas.

I know too many people who over heat them and glaze organic or kevlar discs. Dropping the transmission every couple months got old fast..

 

We're talking about a major increase in response. It's my understanding that in real world conditions, you are actually able to release more power to the wheels sooner than without one, which while not effecting ultimate power numbers, give you a head start on something, like for example, that's boosted. Critical millisecond that make applying torque at the right places in a corner easier.

There are some slight downsides, and not a good mod for some folks, especially those who prefer a relaxed style of driving. Not sure if the DBW emissions control might keep the revs up between shifts, but otherwise, there is no way around it - you're engine will drop rpms faster. I'd get this mainly because I like to rev match everything, and this covers up mistakes better, as long as you don't start over-throttling.

I think I'm one of those crazy people who would rather spend $3500-$4000 getting this, some cams, head work, and an LSD for a total of about 140whp over a turbo. Then shed all the weight. I think it would be a fun racer and well balanced overall car (for what it is.) It impresses me more every day, as I learn to drive it. I'm not sure I could tackle corners in my MS miata that much faster than in the Fit honestly. They both weigh about the same. Powering out is a different story.

 

Well, you are releasing the power at the same time, there is just less inertia to overcome. Remember this is weight loss on the rotating assembly, so you are effectively freeing up torque. You also power through the revs quicker, which does increase actual acceleration a bit.

Why would it give you an advantage against someone boosted? If they are brake boosting or have a two-step or anti-lag system it won't make the slightest bit of difference... Besides if you slip the clutch and pre-load the drivetrain properly on a turbo car you can roll into boost without any of those techniques.

A lighter flywheel will change your clutch engagement rolling into first gear from a standstill, because there is less momentum to overcome the car and drivelines at rest but that's about it.. I spend a lot of time just cruising and putting around and the lighter flywheels do not affect this in any negative capacity on any of the cars I have them installled on. The ECUs don't seem to conflict with them either, but yes the rpms do fall off a bit faster, which is not a bad thing necessarily.

I hate to break it to you but cams, headwork, a flywheel and a retune are not going to net you 50whp. That is just way too optimistic for only 1.5L.

Besides why would you spend $4k on only 50whp? Thats insane. What weight are you planning on removing? Seats? Dash? Spare tire? Have you ever had a lightened flywheel on a car you own before?

Take that money and put it into suspension, lighter wheels with stickier tires, chassis bracing, flywheel, I/H/E and a throttle controller if you are not going to go F/I.

Or do all of that, extrude hone your cylinder head, get a more radical cam and springs and find a used kraftwerks/t1r/hks or other forced induction kit. And you might just have spent the most effective $4k you possibly could on the Fit.

Your Miata, at least stock vs stock with a Fit should go around a given track faster through corners and the straights.

 

That's what I was saying, no? I don't have as good of an understanding of it as you, obviously, but I thought that horsepower ultimately is not increased, and the way torque gets to the road is different, which is similar enough of a point. I'm not professing to be an expert.

The "advantage" I'm speaking of would be that I get to drive what I enjoy most--a normally aspirated engine. I never said "advantage." In fact, I mentioned it as just being easier to drive.

Not looking to win races, only be able to drive faster than I could before, with the feel that I want. 3 out the last 5 cars I've had were turbos. My comment is only meant to express my dislike for turbo lag, not comparisons of what each can ultimately achieve. Spooling up in a corner is very unnatural to me. *shrug*

Don't break it to me. Tell it to the guy from out East (Asia, that is) who said they got a GE8 up to 140whp the other day in another thread.

Yes, I have. As for weight savings, I'm just talking about some of the regular stuff. Maybe some nice racing seats too. How about "weekend track capable" as the class of car I'd be aiming for. I might even leave the spare, if I can't find a way to transfer or lose weight up front. Oh no, that makes me slower, right? I'll probably be having more fun in my balanced chassis.

I see all car mods as a horrible investment. Personally, if I dropped 4k on any lump of car mods, it would have to be like chump change to me. We are talking about something for very few (I even said "crazy" in my post), who aren't intending to race the clock with their money. I could have bought a $24,000 car that is slower than the Fit, and I could have bought a $24,000 car that is faster than a turbo fit.

Of course it was faster. My g-meter reads out up to .80 stock on the Fit during normal street-legal driving, and that is plenty of fun. The extra .1 can be nice, but ultimately, I'm just enjoying my driving skills applied to a nice little responsive car.

I don't like boost, but I'm not averted to it if I want something fast.

 

Sorry inflection is lost in text!

I hope I didn't come off as a dick, I have little time during the day and lots I want to say in a given post lol

I will address your post in full when I get a break here at work, or when I get home.

Also, if you could maybe help me find that link about the 140whp NA GE8 that would be an interesting read, and you would only need to pick up another 35-40whp on the GE, which would be a little more reasonable, I keep thinking in terms of GD's.

Often I have my head in the sky when discussing modifications/tuning because I participate in Land Speed, Standing Mile, Autocross and 1/4 mile events when and where possible. I also do lots of tuning pro bono (or for a few beers) with friends and aquaintances, so this sort of thing is my obsession.

 

LOL it's cool man. I'm sure I will learn something in this thread. I didn't take it as dick-like. These are all just good points to address, and discuss. The N/A vs. turbo thing is hard to get at, because one is obviously more effective and cheaper for doing what the goal seems to be - go faster. It's kind of like having a love for Apple products. Makes no real sense as far as results are concerned at the end of the day, but the experience will be better for some people in a qualitative way that can't be assessed by others.

edit: Hmm, I could've sworn I saw that in this thread: https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/1st-...-anyone-2.html which you have been posting in. Can't find it. Did I dream this up?

 

I think it was this phrase:

"It's my understanding that in real world conditions, you are actually able to release more power to the wheels sooner than without one, which while not effecting ultimate power numbers, give you a head start on something, like for example, that's boosted."


That caused some of my initial confusion.

It sounds like we more or less agree that removing rotating mass is a good thing, and the hows/whys associated with that process seem to be understood between us.

I too am not a huge fan of turbo lag, but there are ways too tune around this, almost eliminating it in some cases. Then there are 2 step launch systems, as well as anti lag and rev limiting between shifts which can eliminate lag entirely..

Or you can use a supercharger like a rotrex or procharger unit to produce linear predictable power all the way to red line with no lag. Easy install too.

I have a 59mm inducer compressor (>65lb/min) coupled with a 74mm exducer turbine (.55A/R hotside) that spools only about 800-1000rpm later than a factory Mitsu TD05H 14B(34) or 18G (45lb/min) in a 7cm2 housing, which would start building boost as low as 2000rpm in 3rd gear with full spool ~(20psi) by 3200rpm. That was on a rough, rich 20 year old factory tune.

Even when it was still FWD only, I never really had an issue with spooling in a corner, as that is all throttle dependent..

I would be concerned with the "lift throttle oversteer" the Fit exhibits in factory form, more than lighting up the front tires in the corners.

In my AWDs, the torque split is 30/70 F/R with a slightly stiff rear spring, so I have oversteer on demand while the front still clawed me in the direction I wanted to go. Which makes spooling in the corners fun

With some lean spool tuning, or burning hotter in the load cells at and below 100kPa (14.7Psi-Atm.) to accelerate the exhaust gasses, I still have gobs of torque and transient response out of boost, even on a big turbo.

I think I may not understand what you are referring to when you said:

"I could have bought a $24,000 car that is slower than the Fit, and I could have bought a $24,000 car that is faster than a turbo fit."


As far as cost... I built my whole Laser, which was purchased as a $600 factory stock rolling shell with no motor or transmission in it, for a total of ~$5100 dollars.

That is including every little item like bolts, heater core hoses, new windshield wipers, sensors, a $690 Standalone ECU and the $1200 spent on a brand new, polished, and surge-ported Borg Warner S259ETT turbo with some custom extras. A used $350 60mm Holset HX40 would've fit the bill, but I wanted something new and un-abused.

I intend to attach the 14B compressor to my GD3 and tune it myself for less than $2k. I have a list of handling/suspension/drivetrain and engine components that looks like it is going to run me about $2200.. When parts are matched and complimentary and can support your goals, they can make a given vehicle a completely different animal, and with few if any real sacrifices.

You make a good point about mass reduction. Weight is a big deal in our 100hp hondas, another member here on FF (DOHCtor) reported a half second drop in his 1/4 mile time by removing the seats and spare tire alone.

What I am getting at is if one were going to spend $4K on their Fit, and it was decided that F/I was not an option, I would pour the bulk of it into handling work, especially unsprung weight, brakes and chassis.

Then what was left over on bolt ons, leaving at least $500-600 for some sort of tuning device and the $220 for something like the Boomslang wiring harness.

Even completely stock, the most powerful mod you could do would be buying and learning the AEM FIC. Then every performance mod done after that could be accomodated properly in tune.

 

It is definitely a matter of preference in the end. Though on a given platform it is tough to say what is actually cheaper in the long run. This also depends on how you quantify cheaper.. Total cost, $/HP, etc.


"Hmm, I could've sworn I saw that in this thread: https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/1st-generation-gd-01-08/60112-why-hasnt-anyone-2.html which you have been posting in. Can't find it. Did I dream this up?"

Saw what?

 

The thread that mentioned the GE8 making 140whp.

 

I re-read that, and you may have mixed a couple posts together.. There is this from the OP:

Where he is hoping to make 140whp off those mods.

And then here was some of my input later on referencing a discussion with RCA from Singapore, the direct quote and html didn't come out correctly so here is a link:

https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/1st-...tml#post925342

 

You're right, I am! Apologies.

 

I really think 140 na is possible. Exhaust alone nets you something like 10 to the wheels. A cam should net 15-20, headwork 10....all these mods will compliment each other so headers would net you more than just 10....I don't see why 30whp is a far fetched idea, with head&cam work. Maybe on the tame end 125whp which is substantial if you really think about it