So I'll start off by saying I'm clearly not car-saavy. I have a 07 Fit (113k miles and under extended warranty) that has been misfiring for a few months now, which I get happens. Yesterday CEL started flashing on 3 occasions, turning solid on the third. Took it to Honda, told the adviser I had had a misfire in my 4th cylinder a few months ago which turned out to be a coil issue and was repaired at another shop through my extended warranty, and I'm having the exact same symptoms now. Adviser told me his son had "a similar issue" which was fixed with a valve adjustment, which isn't covered under warranty (obviously). I authorized diagnosis, to which they called saying it was in fact "tight valves". Valves were not mentioned with my last repair no more than 3 or 4 months ago. I'm going through a financial hardship and had to ask my boyfriend's mother for a loan to cover the cost, but agreed to the service because I work two jobs and go to college so I need my car running. Picked the car up the next morning and didn't even make it 2 miles before symptoms returned and the CEL started flashing again. Needless to say I'm PISSED. So before I go back to these guys and they try to sucker me into another out-of-warranty "repair", some advice as to what my problem could be? Research is telling me coil or fuel-injector. At time of service car was reading codes P0301, P0302 and P0300.

 

The valves would have to be awfully far out of spec to cause a misfire. In my experience - I had a valve adjust after 100K and I should have done it earlier - "tight" valves are more likely to cause hesitation and a general lack of power. The fact that they didn't tell you which valves were affected - intake or exhaust - means either they were probably guessing/didn't measure them directly, or just trying to obfuscate you.

How was the original coil issue repaired? Did they just clean it up or replace entirely?

I'm thinking you need new coils all the way around. Certainly not unusual at 113K.

New coils (get the OEM Hitachis at rock auto for around $50 apiece, don't buy the cheap ones) would not be terribly difficult to install. Plenty of DIYs here.

If you haven't replaced the plugs yet, that would be something to do as long as you're replacing the coils. Should be replaced at 100K anyway. Around $30-35 a set at rock auto. I recommend the Denso or NGK iridium only.

Stopgap budget measure: Have a mechanic or trusted friend pull the coilpacks and inspect. Many times they get dirty and a good cleanup is what they need instead of outright replacement. I did this when I replaced my plugs and the original coilpacks were still going strong at 146K when my car was totaled.

 

Most everything Bargainguy suggested is 110K Preventative Maintenance, recommended by Honda.

Except the coil packs. Which, historically, the Fit seems to require at around 100 - 125K miles.

You need to assure that your Warranty shop is installing the best coils for you (as mentioned, Hitachi coils with a part number ending in 053). The other aftermarket brands don't seem to last long.

I'd bring it to your warranty shop for the misfires (suggest that all four coil packs need to be replaced).

Then bring the car to an independent Honda specialist to have the rest of the preventative maintenance done. (You should get sparkplugs, valve adjustments, cabin and engine air filters, brake fluid, and transmission fluids replaced.)

The specialist will have the experience necessary to do the maintenance PROPERLY, with the correct parts and fluids. It will cost a LOT less than having a dealer do it.

Let us know how it turns out (and what your costs will be).

 

Bargainguy - Coil was replaced, per my warranty. Sparkplugs were replaced at 102k with little to no misfire at the time. Paperwork simply states "all valves were tight". Just hashed it out with the adviser this morning, in which he kept attempting to put blame on past maintenance done at another shop, even going so far as to say that it was "interesting they only diagnosed the 4th cylinder coil" to which I responded "That's because it's the only cylinder that was misfiring." I understand that valve adjustment is recommended at this point anyway, but as I told the adviser I'm not in the financial situation right now to pay for services which aren't immediately problematic.

Carbuff2 - There isn't a specific shop for my warranty, just "any licensed mechanic". When I had issues with the 4th cylinder I took it to Toyota because I had a coworker that worked there and he got my problem all straightened out. Went back to them this time because they had worked on it before and was advised that with the symptoms I was having it was best to go to the Honda service center because Toyota may not have the necessary scanner to diagnose my vehicle and she didn't want to waste my time or money, which I appreciate. At this point I just want them to fix the car. I have several friends and family members telling me I should also demand my money back if the actual repair is covered under my warranty.

From now on I'll be going to a mechanic I know I can trust. I just didn't go this time as his shop is 30 mi. away and I couldn't afford the tow. (Again, I had to borrow money for this so-called repair). Along with attempting to place blame everywhere else, adviser said he was "very knowledgeable" about cars and was still insisting that the tight valves are a cause of my symptoms. When I showed him article about common issues in Honda vehicles that specifically says that the valves are unlikely to cause my symptoms and all other options should be exhausted first, he first said "Well that's not what my tech told me" and then tried insisting that I already exhausted my other options.

I'm current on all scheduled maintenance except the valve adjustment (before this incident) and the trans and brake fluid change, which I'll be doing asap.

I'll definitely keep you guys updated. So far car has been back in the shop for 4 hours with no word on diagnosis, which I'm certainly not paying for as it should have been done properly the first time.

 

My goodness. A good mechanic knows what spec is for each valve: .006 - .007 in. for intake, .010 - .012 in. for exhaust. A blanket statement of "all valves were tight" doesn't give you a clue if it's not expressed in numerical values. Gotta wonder if they checked them at all. They'd have to pull the valve cover to do so, and if they found tight valves, they should give you numerical values and immediately contact you to have you give them the go ahead with the adjustment while everything is torn down. Not a very good shop IMHO.

And if they didn't replace your coilpack with the original Hitachi, you could be seeing the same problems that others here have reported with non-OEM coilpacks, namely, they don't last very long and fail rather spectacularly when they die.

Here's what I'm thinking will happen: You'll need new Hitachi coilpacks all around, and valve adjustment can wait as your car should still run OK (but not optimally) until you can afford it. That's what I'd tell your new mechanic in case he asks, and that's what I'm hoping your real situation is.

 

They already did the valve adjustment (without authorization from me) and I was told it fixed the issue, and so I paid and went on my way... Only to experience the exact same thing within 2 miles. Advisor keeps insisting his son's Fit had the same symptoms and was fixed with a valve adjustment, so I'm assuming they went off of his word given that they clearly didn't even test drive the vehicle afterward to assure it actually rode correctly. It rides so rough there's no mistaking that it's a misfire. Not sure what Toyota replaced them with, but as I said it was only the one coil in the 4th cylinder which is currently functioning fine.

As I was writing this post, I got a call from the Service Center. Advisor states the other 3 coils are in fact bad (he previously stated they were tested and fine) and is now stating that had he called the warranty company, "the first thing they would have asked is if we did a valve adjustment". I told him not to do anything or contact anyone until I got in touch with them first, called the warranty company and they stated they would have done no such thing. Currently researching a reliable independent shop in my area (not the guy 30 mi away) and I'm going to take the car elsewhere. Also going to demand a refund for the valve adjustment as they did not properly diagnose the car to begin with (Advisor even admitted they have a Honda-provided 'flow chart' that states coils should be replaced first). This is absolutely ridiculous. Thanks for the advice, guys. You were right, and the coils are bad, as I told them I suspected to begin with.

 

If your valves are out of adjustment, It will affect the efficiency of ignition when the coil fires.
If your cylinder pressure is low on the the compression stroke the coil has to work harder/hotter to get ignition. This overworks the coils and makes them run too hot, meaning they don't last as long. FWIW this is not a new problem, many cars back in the day would burn points when the coil was puling too hard on a tired motor.

The biggest disservice Honda did on the FIT was NOT making a valve adjust part of the tuneup protocol and insisting that they don't need checked until over 100K.
This car shows ever sign that a 60K valve adjust is mandatory (Like most hondas were back in the day.. ). The fact that it runs, doesn't mean its running as well as it should.

How hard you drive drastically affects valve wear, if your a short shifter who bumbles around town never in a hurry the 100K mark is fine, if you rod the car and your bouncing it off the redline occasionally a valve check at every oil change could be justified. The Hondas I've worked on road racing pretty much required me to run the valves every race day.

Your mileage may vary and I'm sure there are as many opinions on this as there are car owners..

 

I don't know why my previous post didn't post.

dwtaylorpdx - Thanks, lots of good info. I will say I had no idea the car required a valve adjustment at any point (like I said, I'm not car-saavy) and certainly wasn't alerted of it by anyone. Given the mileage and that I'm not 'a short shifter who bumbles around town', I'm sure I was well due for an adjustment. That being said, to my understanding and as it was previously stated, that still wouldn't cause the symptoms I was having, and unfortunately I'm not currently in a financial position to handle things that aren't an immediate issue. Had they told me the valves were tight, I would have certainly had them taken care of as soon as I could, though.

Okay, so final update on the situation. Went back to Honda, told the guy that I spoke to the warranty company and they stated the would not have asked about the valve adjustment, and that I wanted my car and my money back. He immediately starts going on about how the valve adjustment was still necessary because it would have caused the coils to run too hot, which cause the one coil to fail (now we've gone from 3 coils to 1) and so the valve adjustment was necessary so that I wouldn't be right back there in a few months with the other coils. He then went on to explain that he was also trying to get the warranty company to clear a replacement of the two coils that haven't failed yet "because they will eventually" and that the valve adjustment was necessary for them to approve the coils. So at this point I feel like he's not just swindling me, but my warranty company as well. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, y'know? So I said something along the lines of 'that's all fine and dandy but I would have preferred that the covered repair have been done and I would have done the valve adjustment when I could afford it and dealt with the other two coils through my warranty when the time comes. I want my car, and I want my money'. At that point he lost it, started huffing and puffing, told me I'd have to talk to the service manager (who was on lunch) because he was "done dealing with me". I got the service manager's card, got my car and went straight to a new mechanic.

New mechanic diagnosed two bad coils, one of which happened to be the one that was replaced at Toyota which they're replacing, and warranty covered all the rest but $114 of the diagnostic testing, which is fine and I completely understand. Still not something I would want to be paying given my current financial circumstances and that the coil replaced at Toyota was at no cost, but at this point I'm like f-it.

Called the service manager last night and had a meeting with him today. Spend an hour debate why things were done the way they were, how I felt they should have been done, how he felt they were done properly, so on and so forth. Amongst all of the discussion I had stated that two coils were being replaced, and which point he offered to give me back $50-something dollars for the half an hour spent diagnosing the vehicle and offered to "replace the remaining coil". I didn't correct him about the number of coils and instead told him that I'm going to have to pay $114 at Meyer's and asked if he'd be willing to pay just that cost, which he agreed to. I didn't go for the option of him replacing the other coil(s) as they'll likely still be covered under my warranty when they eventually go, or at the very least I hope to be in better financial standing at that time. So in the end, still a really bad experience and a lot of wasted time and frustration, but at least I got some of my money back to cover the current repair, plus my valves are adjusted. -shrug- Ultimate out-of-pocket cost for coil and valve adjustment (with a 10% off service coupon - hey, I'm broke) was $236.

 

Even though ugly it sounds like your making progress. .

FYI Out of adjustment valves especially tight ones will cause lower speed miss, talk with any motorcycle or old school VW bug owner.. Its tough because so few cars these days need mechanical maintenance like a valve adjust that the dealer guys just don't get it anymore, or its just not their goto fix, nearly everybody I read about on this forum chasing this problem gets the "It might be the ECU" claim as well which is utter crap on the mechanics part, modern ECU's seldom fail without telling you something, unlike a dodgy IAT or TPS sensor. ..

I'm 100% convinced after a few months of fiddling that the fit needs a full tuneup between 60 and 80K miles to run its best. And that tuneup is Coil Packs, Plugs, Valve adjust as a package. The old civics needed it and this motor is the grandson of the CVCC motor.. (They totally ran like crap if not tended to.. )