After a few years of absence from the autocross scene, I decided to rejoin this year, with my 07 fit sport 5mt in stock class (HS). I'm considering a few upgrades for next year to improve the results, but I'm wondering if the Fit in the HS class is a lost cause. I haven't seen anyone else show up with one to local events, and looking at Nat Tour results, it seems that they are not popular either. Is HS dominated by the Mini, with no chances for the Fit to stand out? Of course in autocross the driver's skill is most important, but assuming same skill level, can the Fit beat the Mini, and if so, will it basically require every modification allowed in stock classes?
At the moment I have no modifications at all, running on oem wheels with the Potenza RE960AS tires (yes, all-seasons ), running in the indexed Street tire class, with results averaging in the top 1/3 to 1/2. Last event placed 19th out of 45 in street tire.

 

HS allows you to run R-compounds that is easily 4 seconds off - if you can afford the tires

You can have sway bars and change your shocks - get some koni and a stiff rear bar

but no the mini is a better handling car that is faster more well balance then the fit - just go out there and have fun.

If I ever take the fit out - I will take it to the HP class which allows you to strip the interior and run some fat tires

 

The issue mainly is cost, to set up the car correctly in any class it costs quite a bit, even in stock classes. I guess for now improving my technique will be the key, I'm hoping to get into trophy positions with my current setup in street tire soon, there are several more local events left this year, we'll see how that goes.

 

work hard then - or you can be just like me and have fun - I autox in two chapters both in LA and SD. I'm not too worried about being competitive and just really out there and have fun and learn. I know when I am good and I know when I suck.

Yes set up is a lot of it and being the first fit owners to autox the car and finding the correct set up for such a poorly balance car is going to be difficulty. I would suggest leaving most things stock as much as possible and learn the car that way. Don't get too work up over improving things as the fit even for its disproportion still handles very well.

The first thing I would do is add more camber and toe adjustment to make to address under steer issues

 

Of course you gotta have fun, it's just a bit more fun when you can post some good times I'm running in the Chicago region, there aren't many people here running in HS, and if there are a few HS cars, they mostly run in the street-tire class.
On the side note, are the Honda camber bolts for the fit allowed in the stock class? I've been having some difficulty finding the answer to that question.

 

Hi to all the fellow Auto X'r with Fits!!! I have been racing my Fit in SCCA ST Class... for about 2 years now (Philly, Houston, and now St Louis Region)... I know I don't hold a stick against the 89' Civic Si... but dam it is fun to try. I also don't plan to go to nationals and be competitive. I take my car as training wheels to one day afford something faster (911 GT3, Race Prep Miata or STI).

Also I have a great laugh to see the people's faces (usually rookies) when I beat thier BMW M3's, 911's, WRX's, Corvette, etc, etc... Like thewatcher101 said "just go out there and have fun." I think the fastest car I have beaten was a Ford GT with 750whp set-up for high mph run on the Texas Mile Race. They guy had no skills when it came to Auto X'ing. I guess he thought the throttle was an on/off switch or something.

Back to your questions I think in HS class shocks are allowed as are R compounds but not sure of the sway bars... in fact I think you can't change the sway bar, especially the rear one maybe only the front. Here is the link to download the rule book should be able to answer all your questions: SCCA - Sports Car Club of America

Also not sure what shocks you could run since Koni doesn't make the yellows for the Fit, i guess you could hack up your stocks and put in inserts? I have done a bunch of things to my car mostly suspension to get the car to handle the best it can.

Right now I'm working on getting my Skunk2 Pro C in.. but that might have to wait til next season. Last race here is on the 8/15.

But anyways good luck mkx-r and don't lose hope.... Driver > Car... We are racing Fits, we should know

 

Before adding a lot of the other stuff and getting technical by simply running on good autox tires (star spec, re-11, kumho xs) running a pressure of 35 rear and 30 front should yield some very good results

I am pretty sure the camber bolts are not allowed on the Fit.

Leave the gas tank as empty as possible since it is only adding front weight each gallon of gas is around 6lb so that is a simple weight saving

but the magic seats up and have it in the back to further move the weight to the rear

If you can ride in other people who have front wheel drive - I notice that they tend to trail brake a lot more compared to rear wheel drivers

 

you must dive into corners and trail brake with a FWD car. Gotta get that rear end to step out. dive bomb corners! its soo much fun. I dont care what people say about RWD > FWD. there is no "which is better." I can do just as much with a FWD car.

Your tire psi sounds about right also. I run 30 front 33 rear. However, I am no auto x'er. I am a RR'er

 

Alright, so this Sunday we had an event, that was dry in the morning, and wet in the afternoon runs. It was a fairly short course, with average times around the high 30s range, 3 runs in each.
In my morning runs, I did 40.1s+1, 39.5s, and 39.1s. I had a good feeling for the course, and had the line figured out fairly well. In the afternoon runs (wet ones), my best clean run was 39.8s, best dirty wet run was 39.5s+1 (just tipped one of the cones near the end).
Generally most drivers were about 2.5s - 3s slower in the wet, but my time was only 0.7s slower clean (0.4s counting the dirty wet run). This only leads to the conclusion that I should have been a lot faster on the dry course.
The most noticeable difference between the runs is that the Fit was rotating nicely around turns on the wet surface, which wasn't the case in the dry. I was running 42psi front, and 40 in the rear.
I'm thinking of bringing up the rear pressures to about 50psi for the next event, to allow more rotation in the dry.
Any thoughts?

 

I found in one of our test and tunes the Fit was much better in the rain than several of the rwd cars. I was (almost) keeping up to one of the local hot shoes in an AP1 S2K.

I run 37 front 40 rear and find the roll over typically works. FWIW increasing the rear tyre pressure to help rotation decreases overall traction and is not the way to do it. A better way is to get some Max Air shocks for the rear like Sugarphreak or MrFrogge. Also I keep the magic seats down, completely recline the passenger seat, lower all windows, and push our the side mirrors for better visibility (they're huge). Guess it's debatably for the magic seats.

I've done a few things to my car, but knowing it's not competitive with the Focus SVT or the Mini (and funds) I'm not planning on fully prepping the car. The larger T1R or Blox? FSB is allowed. RSB is not - one of the reason's I'm in ST too. Don't know about dampers, but remember reading somewhere that MrFrogge? got some T1R dampers after his Max Air's.

It sounds like you have some experience, but as a refresher or for anyone else:
Based on what I hear from the local hot shoes (nationally competitive), and the Solo Pro instructors, I'd recommend a driving school like Solo Pro or the Evo School, then R-compound's (after a season of working on getting smooth so you don't abuse the tyres traction). Personally I got some Re-11's and find them awesome (also heard great things about the Star Specs and they're more popular up here in Canada because they need less heat (?) and cheaper).

NOTE: Just remembered one of the instructors telling me it would have been better to start on all seasons because they force you to be smoother since with less grip (similar to the R Comp's) you don't have as much ability to recover. One of the local's here said the best way was 1 or 2 seasons on all seasons and then jump to R comp's. They might have more patience than you or me though!

 

Currently my fundage is a little low to get shocks, but I'm thinking about them for next season. I think RE-11 for street tire would also help, unless I go the regular HS route, and get some R-comps. I've done autocrossing for a few years in my previous cars ('94 prelude, '00 ITR), but some work changes didn't let me for a while, and then my ITR was stolen. It's still super fun in the Fit, even with no modifications, it's nice to be able to beat STis and Evos and muscle cars. Some dude at my local club laughed (jokingly) about me autocrossing the Fit, it's on my to-do list to beat him raw-time.

 

Fellas, I actually have a race this weekend on Sunday here is STL. I am running Tanabe GF-210 springs, progress rear sway bar, and Cusco struts and T1R lower arm bars... Now I ride on Enkei RPF1's 15" with 205/50 Advan AD08's... I used to run Dunlops 195/55 15 those I had at 38psi (hot) in front and 36~35 (hot) at the back... And that seemed to work fine... but these Advans seem to grip more with less pressure... My last event I ran 35 psi all the way around and there seems to be more grip... then my old 38/36 psi set up.

Any suggestions for more grip or oversteer... The Fit with this set-up seems to have a thin line between oversteer (via left foot brake) and understeer. Any suggestion to get more front grip?

Oh and with my OEM shocks and camber bolts I'm at about -0.8~1 camber. I know I have to attack hard to get the best time possible, but at the same time not over drive the car.

 

you need to run a lower pressurer up front (more grip up front) and less grip in the rear that is why everyone on this forum has suggested to run a higher rear pressure - another way to increase oversteer is connecting the rear which is what you have a rsb, if it is adjustable put it on the highest setting also rsb i don't know how fit rsb are because i don't have one. If they are not brace well and are attach at more then one point to the frame an aggressive setting can crack the sub frame.

 

TIRES
SCCA does allow R-compound tires, and yes, a fresh set of sticky tires make all the difference!

DAMPERS
For the '08 season, we swapped out the OEM dampers for a set of adjustable T1R dampers on "mrFroge's" GD3. Rich "mrFroge" Bangle feels that this was the single most effective mod on his Fit. BTW, he tried to find Koni inserts for the front struts, but found that the Koni cartridges are too large to fit inside the OEM struts.

SWAYBARS
SCCA rules forbid the addition of an RSB on a GD3 in HS class. You can however run a front swaybar (i.e. Battle Endless FSB) since the '07-'08s shipped with a front swaybar. Rich successfully campaigns with one of these units.

Here is how the SCCA rulebook reads for Stock Category:

13.7 ANTI-ROLL (SWAY) BARS
A. For front anti-roll bars:
1. Substitution, addition, or removal of any front anti-roll bar(s) and
supporting hardware (brackets, endlinks, bushings, etc.) is permitted.
2. Substitution, addition, or removal of anti-roll bars may serve no
other purpose than that of an anti-roll bar.
3. The use of any bushing material is permitted.
4. No modification to the body, frame, or other components to accommodate
anti-roll bar addition or substitution is allowed except
for the drilling of holes for mounting bolts. Non-standard lateral
members which connect between the brackets for the bar are not
permitted.
B. Rear anti-roll bars may not be removed, replaced, or modified in any
way.

You can run Honda PN: 90188-SCC-A00 "Crash Bolts" legally in HS as long as you do not exceed the specs outlined by Honda. On the GD3, the maximum allowed negative camber is -1º.

If you want more rotation, you might want to try a trick that "mrFroge" runs on ultra "tight" courses. At these short, tight venues, he runs his "soft" 225/50-15 R-compounds up front, and a set of "hard" 185/60-15s in back. This is what the old mini coopers used to do back in the day.


Checkout this link at Tirerack:
Guide To High Performance Handling

Cheers,
-macbuddy-

 

^I reviewed the link you posted and have a question about the folloiwng...maybe I am just reading it wrong:


Adjustments ............Decrease Understeer.............. Decrease Oversteer
Front Tire Pressure .....Higher..................................... Lower
Rear Tire Pressure ......Lower...................................... Higher

Isn't this the reverse of what everyone has been saying??? To decrease understeer (i.e. promote oversteer) you should INCREASE rear tire pressure and DECREASE front tire pressure right??. This is opposite of the table above.


***EDITED because format came out totally wrong when I copied/pasted***

 

In japan it is most common to have on an FF car, higher spring rates in the front and lower in the back. i assume same with tire pressure.

What is the best way? ive always ran more psi in the rear and less in the front

 

So you cannot change the RSB at all for HS.

Set your front tyres up for maximum grip (ie when do they roll over to the edge / bead? They are working the most - acceleration and cornering.

Then alter your rear tyre pressure to help oversteer a little. Note as I understand it and JCrimson is implying this is not the proper way to do it. It's better to adjust your suspension since you are decreasing your car's overall grip or traction for cornering. Therefore only do it at the margin. Some local people run really low rear pressures because they say the concave shape is more predictable (forgiving) when it breaks away (when you start to slide instead of slither), others increase the rear tyre pressure and make the tyre wear surface more convex to reduce the tyre's contact patch. As I understand it overly adjusting rear tyre pressure (past at the margin adjustments) is like flicking the car in corners to promote oversteer; it will lose you time.

Other guys here also use R compounds in the front and street tyres in the rear - it works.

 

Thanks for all the help Guys !!! Let see how it goes tomorrow

I will post results when they are in...

 

Another post-weekend update.
We had a bit of a horsepower course this weekend, there were a lot of straight sections, and only one slalom that was so wide open I was able to clear it with 100% throttle all the way through. We had 4 morning runs, and 3 afternoon runs.
I ran 44psi front, and 55-57psi rear. Even with that, the rear wouldn't rotate much, then again it wasn't a very tight course. I didn't feel comfortable pushing the pressures higher than that. For the next event, I will try going the other way, and lowering the pressures in the rear to about 15-20psi starting, and see if I can achieve some better rotation that way.
I tried a bit of left-foot braking during the day, it didn't work out too well, will need to practice it more.
One strange thing I would say was that my best run was my first run, even though my later runs were much smoother. I'm wondering if tire temperatures has something to do with that, as we hit around 90 degrees, or maybe it was just me over-thinking the course.

 

Lower the fronts to 32 and the rear leave at the 55-60. It helped alot with rotating the rear. I did about 40 autoX runs this weekend day 1 I left it at 32 all around. Day 2 i went with the higher rear and was running faster.