Originally Posted by drzenitram

From the way that JDMChris/KW handled this, I can assuredly say that when I make my SC purchase it will not be from KW. I may buy from Doug Thorley instead.

Why? Because this thread has made the contrast of the way these two companies do business glaringly obvious.

At the frontlines of Doug Thorley's fit crew appears to be a mature and honest, well behaved and well mannered salesman with the consumer in mind. Obviously Doug Thorley wants to provide a product to the consumers that will give them an option -- and a cheaper one at that -- of going another route. Also, even when JDMChris made his unprovoked, ignorant, and childish attack on the quality of Doug Thorley's product, this rep handled the situation coolly and professionally without being defensive, but rather keeping to their obvious standard of keeping the consumers informed and dealing directly with the facts rather than wild assumptions.

JDMChris, on the other hand, came into this thread with guns blazing. Obviously at first sight of rivaling threads KW has their fire lit, clearly they're determined to stamp out any competition with assumptions and accusations galore. The maturity of the representative here poses a problem for me, as GOOD companies usually choose representatives that REPRESENT what their company is like. In this case I would be lead to believe that KW is worried that their product either won't be good enough to compete OR maybe they just want the market share for themselves. Set their own prices, maybe?

Well, where I come from we know that competition is a good thing, and JDMChris, I think you should take a look into that book. Competition is good for the consumer -- isn't that who you said you cared about? Competition keeps all companies involved pushed to create a better, cheaper product that appeals to the consumer. What is it about for you? Making money? Or is it about being the best at what you do and giving your consumers the very best deal you can?

And if you know of problems with the setup and you've got the consumer in mind, wouldn't you want to let Doug Thorley know so that the consumers you care about don't end up with the problems you speak of and your competition can push you further with their developments?

Anyways, this thread definitely killed my appreciation for KW.

Originally Posted by leonine

Dude i dont think you have a clue about what you are talking about.

First off i do agree slightly that the info coming from KW and JDMC was somewhat misleading but that was cleared up. Now i realize IMO why KW has been so secretive about releasing photos/detailed info about their kit because they must have known that their old partners were planning this and did not want to let them have more good ideas. why would JDMC tell DT anything?

looks to me like their was a partnership gone south for whatever reason and DT is trying to get back some of their investment while KW has taken it to the next level. Wonder why KW has not sued them but maybe they are limited by the terms of their prior agreement.

Bottom line is that DT is using an outdated design which was KW and KW has improved on that dramatically.

Originally Posted by drzenitram

From the way that JDMChris/KW handled this, I can assuredly say that when I make my SC purchase it will not be from KW. I may buy from Doug Thorley instead.

Why? Because this thread has made the contrast of the way these two companies do business glaringly obvious.

At the frontlines of Doug Thorley's fit crew appears to be a mature and honest, well behaved and well mannered salesman with the consumer in mind. Obviously Doug Thorley wants to provide a product to the consumers that will give them an option -- and a cheaper one at that -- of going another route. Also, even when JDMChris made his unprovoked, ignorant, and childish attack on the quality of Doug Thorley's product, this rep handled the situation coolly and professionally without being defensive, but rather keeping to their obvious standard of keeping the consumers informed and dealing directly with the facts rather than wild assumptions.

JDMChris, on the other hand, came into this thread with guns blazing. Obviously at first sight of rivaling threads KW has their fire lit, clearly they're determined to stamp out any competition with assumptions and accusations galore. The maturity of the representative here poses a problem for me, as GOOD companies usually choose representatives that REPRESENT what their company is like. In this case I would be lead to believe that KW is worried that their product either won't be good enough to compete OR maybe they just want the market share for themselves. Set their own prices, maybe?

Well, where I come from we know that competition is a good thing, and JDMChris, I think you should take a look into that book. Competition is good for the consumer -- isn't that who you said you cared about? Competition keeps all companies involved pushed to create a better, cheaper product that appeals to the consumer. What is it about for you? Making money? Or is it about being the best at what you do and giving your consumers the very best deal you can?

And if you know of problems with the setup and you've got the consumer in mind, wouldn't you want to let Doug Thorley know so that the consumers you care about don't end up with the problems you speak of and your competition can push you further with their developments?

Anyways, this thread definitely killed my appreciation for KW.

Originally Posted by drzenitram

Good point. Why HASN'T KW sued them? And why do you all follow these KW guys like sheep? I mean, seriously, all they show you are pictures and dyno sheets all the same. They just get you excited and have had time to answer questions. If they have a problem with DT selling their "old product"(if it even is their old product) then they should take it out in the proper format -- in court. Not by making childish accusations in a forum.

It's really sickening to see all of you believing every word JDMChris says like he's the omniscient supercharger guru.

Originally Posted by DynamicFit

I hope you know that although JDMChris is backing KW wholeheartedly, it does not mean he is an actual representative from KW. In my opinion he is simply an owner of the product and therefore as subject to scrutiny as any other individual who may back a product that they own and believe in. If you think of it this way, KW has not bashed Doug Thorley's product in the least, since what was said by Chris is simply the statement of a member talking about what they own, as any of us has done before.

In conclusion I agree with you the Doug Thorley representative has acted mature and handled this thread very well, while taking critcism for the kit very well, but I would not blame Oscar Jackson Jr. for the statements made against the Doug Thorley kit, as it was not specifically made by his company, only an individual who has had experience with both kits and is simply sharing his reaction with them. Although I do feel that Chris' opinions are pretty skewed at times, I choose to take most of those things that I feel are either improbable or exaggerations with a grain of salt. Let the companies sell their products and after all is said and done we can talk about what each of us like or dislike about our kits.

Tom

Originally Posted by Illusive

What we need is Obama's speech from yesterday...

DynamicFit hit it right on the head, KW has never posted in this thread and has kept silent since this all began. JDMChris is entitled to his opinion and experience like everyone else on this forum. What you do with that information is up to you.

Originally Posted by 08XR

It seems as though KW has a representative that is too skewed and biased to give any good information on their product.

I did however ask the DT tech guy about the outdated issues such as the tensioner and that it has been updated as with other components that people are saying are outdated when in fact they are not. The only reason they think this is because of word of mouth by one or 2 other people NOT from DT. Oh well, we will see what develops. I plan on reading more into this, as it seems the KW is not giving out all the details on their kit with fair comparison to the DT.

Originally Posted by Illusive

Alright everyone, this is getting way out of hand. I'm not sure who is who anymore on this forum as I know for a fact that some people are running around with two FF.net identities claiming to be different people. To be honest, I find that very low. I'll be in contact with admin to sort this out. Unfortunately, I don't think everyone is reading into everything that has been going on and are making false assumptions and accusations from both sides.

Originally Posted by jsensk

Doods-- PUH-LEEZ take a pill! DT kit will work and be cool-- KW kit will work and be cool-- but really, if you have not already, please look deeply into not just the KW and (hello!) JACKSON RACING design, but the ROTREX concept as a whole. You must agree that there are significant advantages to the ROTREX design (not just KW employment of the design, but FACT that the ROTREX design is used on many of the very most elite super-tuned cars in the world!) That doesn't make ROOTS s/c's and other designs obsolete, but look at the technology too-- not just some silly posts and implied "handling of a situation" on an internet forum.

Competition on niche items like this will ALWAYS be fierce and trust me-- the guys who handle it maturely/professionally on a forum are in the back office cursing that competitor. Who gives a rat's a** about all that? Bottom line is: we want the hottest and best performing s/c! So give the whole "how that company does business" thing a rest, please. Fronting on an internet forum is not the bottom line on how any company does business. Replies to questions on forums by manufacturer's is nothing more than a marketing opportunity in most cases. You generally have no clue what goes on behind the scenes. I know because in my industry I am in the EXACT same position on a ultra-niche product that only my company and one "competitor" carry (in all of N. America).

Drop the "loyalties" and get a little selfish and look for the best product. That immediately ends all of the bickering about this company vs. that company.

Neither of the guys are going to make millions off this very niche product anyway. These types of products are usually developed out of passion, not huge profit hopes.

Too much emotional garbage and not enough tech-discussion kills these threads.

Originally Posted by drzenitram

Some of us make our decisions based upon how we feel about the specific vendor. For example, I buy everything I possibly can locally from vendors I know and like, rather than saving some money and ordering from a .com or someone in another state or corporation.

Not all of us care if the product delivers another 15 horsepower. I mean, seriously: either way we're still spending $3000 on our cars to run FIFTEENS.

For some of us it's not all about the product, but about the businesspeople selling the product.

So, sorry. Not all of us like to be selfish. I personally like to reward good moral business practitioners.

Originally Posted by 08XR

It seems as though KW has a representative that is too skewed and biased to give any good information on their product.

I did however ask the DT tech guy about the outdated issues such as the tensioner and that it has been updated as with other components that people are saying are outdated when in fact they are not. The only reason they think this is because of word of mouth by one or 2 other people NOT from DT. Oh well, we will see what develops. I plan on reading more into this, as it seems the KW is not giving out all the details on their kit with fair comparison to the DT.