intake/header/exhaust

 

in the usa we use foot pounds. so, converted to our standard, your car is making about 104HP and 126TQ which is much more believable.
its about .73 foot pounds for every newton meter.
also, according to your dyno sheets, this is brake horsepower. dyno machines have the ability to calculate HP numbers to read them from the brakes or the flywheel so regardless if you used a rolling dynamometer,or one that bolts to your brakes, the reading from your sheet is high for wheel horsepower. the closer you get to the flywheel, the higher the HP numbers. id say in reality, you have about 100HP and 115TQ to the wheels. give or take a few ponies

 

if you say so.. i wouldn't know how you can get that number anyways... last month i saw an m3 cls running on the same dyno got around 330hp... so converted into yours, it should be around what? 270hp? 250hp? poor guy....

and yet... i know about the torque have different measurments from metric to imperial... i'm just to lazy to calculate... but you seriously saying there is different power measurement (HP)? that there is HP in imperial and HP in metrics? can you give me reference to that please?

 

o yes.... N M is different than FT LB. Theres the numbers! Thats more on the money for those mods.

 

i'm not talking about torque.. i know about torque... my TQ is 171Nm... and yes if you convert it into foot pound, it gives you around 126...

but i'm talking about power... HorsePower.. as Far as I know, there are only 3 common power measurement which is Hp, Kw, and Ps... For Hp there is only 2 variance. One is international Hp and one in metrics, but both of this only has slight difference. Assuming that my Hp is measured in metrics which is 141, then it would result around 139 Hp in international...

i'm very curious how in the world can you re-calculate power from 141Hp into 100Hp... educate me please.

 

There is a difference between whp and bhp. The Fits stock are rated at what, 109hp? I dynoed my Fit with a intake and cat-back exhaust I made 85whp

 

the way u get hp reading is a calculation from torque. the dynos automatically do it. u need to have the torque reading to get a hp reading. so if ur in Nm then the hp readings are in metric also. also if u noticed that on the dyno readings torque and hp always cross at around 5400rpm. that is another number that is figured into the calculation.

 

well, to each their own, i guess...

 

When I took a drive over to J's last weekend, the engine they were prepping for fun/competition, Umehara-San said engine power would be about 160 and on the dynapack see about 145. Compression will only be up to 11.4:1, but he is thinking of going higher, I told him shoot for 13:1. Bottom end has been balanced, has a port and polish up top and the regular add-ons and a reflash to the ECU, stock cam still and I'm not sure if the injectors were swapped for higher flowing pieces. Fit will be pretty much gutted, but the owner won't drive it around everyday as such, only when he goes out on circuit. Compared to the Super Taikyu motor which has restrictions on what can be done and is not too far from stock actually.

 

To answer the question about the Dseries motor there is a lot of reasons people can get more out of those than the L15. Mainly the fact that it has been around in some form for what 25 years? Also it is a much more simple engine. Way less in the way of computers and electronics and there is more room for your standard mods. The l15 has been around for what? 6-8 years maybe alittle longer? You don't have the amount or reserch and support that d series has plus you have alot more electronics to deal with plus the engine is more compact. Out of curiosity has anyone out there bored and sleeved one of these things? I haven't read a ton of the turbo builds but if you could bore it out to 1.8 or even close to that and up the compression with some really agressive cams I would bet you could get close to that 140 hp number. The issue then becomes the trans and what it can hold up. It sounds like the biggest inprovment that can be made it letting this thing breath more. Ported and polished head with bigger valves and a port matched intake manifold and throttle body would probably do wonders along with some bigger injectors and a more agressive cam. Also has anyone done ITB's? Might have an issue with space in the bay but it would help as well.

 

We already went through the BHP part in the thread. It says BHP on the sheet but kodok3ribu was told it only reports WHP. I was confused by that part too . I still think 140BHP @ 6000RPM is plenty respectable for a N/A 1.5L. And it still has some torque.

HP means HP like what we use, PS is the international metric for the unit known as "Horse Power" and it is approx 2% higher than our standard for HP. I had to check wiki about what PS actually is, but I know the conversion by heart since I am already familiar with it. I never knew it was the international standard for HP though .

 

lol, you're not the only one ... i still can't figure out if the machine used measure bhp or whp... will never know i guess... i benchmarked the machine when it was running a stock m3 cls, and it gives lower hp then listed in bmw website, so i assume that the machine calculated either whp or bhp, but definitely not flywheel....

i at the wise dude who have many ways in calculating hp.. but whatever suits them is fine by me... i don't use my car for racing anyway... i just like modding the car, that's all.

 

wait, what machine? the only way to accurately get a HP/tq number is to dyno the engine. theres no way to know how much drivetrain loss there could be

 

by machine, i was referring to the dyno . it's 2 huge rolling pin in the ground where you put your car on top of it and run the car in place... kinda like cardio for cars it's fun to watch... it measured either bhp or whp.. i'm not sure..

 

Thats wheel HP. It might have a way of calculating brake HP but it the car is driving on rollers it is WHP.

 

Which is popular in Europe where they use dynos that calculate drivetrain losses from performing a "coast down" on the engine.

Yes, it is very confusing.

Anyway 140BHP out of a L15 at 6k RPM = possible. But is it the same price as going turbo or a k-swap?

 

yup, i won't know whether it's pure whp or calculated bhp.. doesn't matter anyway..

regarding the cost.. tell you the truth, i think it's cheaper to go turbo. and more reliable too. Abused Highly tuned NA motor like mine, gives me headache on maintenance.. A slight mistune/ a slight carbon build-up/dirty air filter/ slightly thicker motor oil/etc, and you can feel the power taking a dip... For example, if you look at my dyno chart, it is done right after a re-tuning job. No parts exchange, just valve clearance job, new oil, carbon cleaning, and retuning the piggyback. You can see the power before retuning is way below the after retune.

so if somebody is planning to get past 140whp, might as well go turbo for easier setup and maintenance

 

sorry to bring up an old thread...

But i needed to ask since i'm currently in the process of building an N/A 150hp jazz. (Since my old motor of 141hp literally disintegrate )

I will be fair with you guys. Some of you doubt that the power of my car is really 141hp on 6000rpm with peak torque at 172Nm at 5000rpm. Some even manually calculate the power down to 100 or so hp which i never get any info on how did he get that numbers...

Now this matter has been hounding me since. Now I definitely want to know whether there are difference in calculating HP? Cause to my understanding and after a lot of browsing here and there, I can't find any method to calculate HP differently than I do it.

Now here is how I validate my hp rating:
- My peak hp is rated 141.2hp at 6000 rpm.
- I look at my dyno graph for my torque at 6000rpm and it is rated 167.6 Nm
- I convert 167.6Nm into 123.6 pound foot (Courtesy of onlineconversion.com)
- (123.6 x 6000)/5252 = 141.2hp.


Now I want to build a NA car that is really rated 150hp, not because of a miscalculation. Therefore I can say that I have managed to build a 100hp to the liter engine.

So could you guys please post up your dyno chart so I can test my calculation with other cars? Or anyone please point any error in my calculation? I want to know so that if I am proven wrong, I might just as well adjust to the new calculation and think of the next step of wringing the L15 power...

 

An update for you guys. My new dyno sheet for totally rebuilt L15A engine, measured on a different dynamometer than the last time.

Max power: 145.8hp on 6000rpm
Max torque: 181.5Nm on 5000rpm





currently the most I can wring out from the L15, though i'm a bit disappointed by the torque taking a dip after 5000rpm. I was hoping I can still get past 6000rpm without serious power loss.

But the max power/torque I got is actually not disappointing. I think if I remove the muffler and restrictors I can get 150hp, but I won't do that since this is a DD and as it is now is already quite loud, especially during full load. So, if I want to get past 150hp without compromising my ears, then I will definitely need to switch cams.

But can anybody suggest what I should do in order to maintain the power gain past 5000rpm?

 

I'd try that first. IIRC J's cam that 555 posted in another thread picked up at the very top end but did almost nothing for the rest of the powerband.