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(WTA) L15 Race Camshafts (Fit/Jazz)

  #1  
Old 01-19-2012, 01:02 AM
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(WTA) L15 Race Camshafts (Fit/Jazz)

as the subject,anyone who has change the camshaft to this product?
Cat Cams - Honda L15 Race Camshafts (Fit/Jazz)

how the result?

TIA
 
  #2  
Old 01-19-2012, 01:21 PM
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"These race cams require upgraded valve trains and ECU, they are not suitable for stock or street vehicles."

If these are agressive race cams they wont be good for a street car. With the exception of a very small handful of people on here most have not gone any farther then simple bot-ons
 
  #3  
Old 01-19-2012, 02:00 PM
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Hopefully I'll have an answer for this thread in 8-10 weeks. Unless anyone wants to donate to my cause and I'll be able to git er dun sooner. ;D
 
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Old 01-19-2012, 02:23 PM
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are you getting that cam DSM?
 
  #5  
Old 01-19-2012, 02:33 PM
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Yup, Specifically the 309/292 Talked to VAT about it in October last year.

IMHO, big cams on the street are not really a big issue once you dial out the idle chop.

I have daily driven cams as big as 280/276, 288/288 and 312/306 on turbo 4-bangers before. Sounds like a SBC at idle and I just degree them in (haven't been able to find an adjustable cam cog for the L15A, hoping I can have one made..), add spark and lean out for as much torque as the knock sensor(s) allow and wait till boost kicks in.

For an NA 1.5L with a 309/292 with a proper EMS it would certainly be livable, at least for me. You'd probably be unhappy if you've never cammed a car before and had no way to adjust spark angle or idle speed. Mind you, every other supporting VE mod will be necessary, the cam is just one piece of the puzzle and for us GD folks we can atleast tune our scavenging with a different exhaust Mani. This would be all but entirely pointless for a GE if they offered a cam as the "header" is built into the head.

Otherwise it would be fine. I am hoping to pull as high as 11.5k if torque hasn't started to plummet from restriction elsewhere. But I'll hopefully be running some insane boost to make up for it anyways.. hence the compound compressors. So if I can get the 14B to spool by 3-3.5K, the Garrett will light almost immediately after from larger effective displacement and I will have basically a flat torque curve from 4-11.5k in a perfect world.

We'll see.
 

Last edited by DiamondStarMonsters; 01-19-2012 at 02:36 PM.
  #6  
Old 01-19-2012, 03:07 PM
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cool, I dont know how to read lift and Duration and translate it into something that I could understand. SO your saying there not very aggressive for a street car, or just something you personally would live with?

looking around I think I found the specs of the cams im running

IPS-Kme specifications:

Low Speed:

Intake
280 advertised duration
.404" gross valve lift

Exhaust
273 advertised duration
.359" gross valve lift


High Speed:

Intake
308 advertised duration
.523" gross valve lift

Exhaust
300 duration
.455" gross valve lift
 

Last edited by MNfit; 01-19-2012 at 03:16 PM.
  #7  
Old 01-19-2012, 03:19 PM
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Something I personally would live with. But I am a bit eccentric. Most of the time (85%) I drive like a grandma, up until the point where I want to unleash hell and get rolling. lol

Those specs are for a pretty aggressive NA cam, the high speed lobe is atleast. The ramp rates would tell me how aggressive, but with duration that high they are going to be steep and require a ton of spring pressure over the nose to fight off float.

That's approximate to what many would run in a drag application. .523" is a lot of lift, I trust you had reliefs put in the tops of the pistons to clear the valves? That K24 is an interference motor right?

Should support a ton of power uptop and rev to the moon (think +10k rpm), with decent mid-range depending on other mods.

Provided you have the springs to take advantage of it.
 

Last edited by DiamondStarMonsters; 01-19-2012 at 03:25 PM.
  #8  
Old 01-19-2012, 03:26 PM
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so just out of curiosity how do the cams I have and the ones for the Fit stack up as far as daily drive able, if it is even possible to compare them? Im just wondering because I know that my set up is vary drive able for daily use and I guess just knowing how they compare can help me put the Fit cams into context

I am running Skunk2 springs and retainers I really just need to get my type-S cam gear installed so I can take full advantage of the cams
 
  #9  
Old 01-19-2012, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MNfit View Post
so just out of curiosity how do the cams I have and the ones for the Fit stack up as far as daily drive able, if it is even possible to compare them? Im just wondering because I know that my set up is vary drive able for daily use and I guess just knowing how they compare can help me put the Fit cams into context

I am running Skunk2 springs and retainers I really just need to get my type-S cam gear installed so I can take full advantage of the cams
Tough to say.. you have a much larger engine in the same car that weighs maybe a couple hundred pounds more. So it would be more streetable in your application than running a "comparable" cam in an L15A. Really not an apples to apples scenario but enough experience here that I can say the difference would feel more dramatic on the low-end with the L15A.

Either way it is shifting VE and consequently the power curve way to the right..

Look up the specs on the skunk springs and then call the manufacturer of your cam and see what they require for a given RPM and provided you make good power/ the car still pulls hard just set your redline in the EMS 250-500rpm short of the max safe recommendation for your springs.

In either car with the supporting mods, I would run a big cam and tune for them. In a stock Fit without springs, or other VE mods and just the cam and a tune, it would be a miserable affair.

To take advantage of something like this would cost more than a bolt-on turbo kit for most people. The gains would be considerably less as well. Unless of course you have a setup that can wind out and make good power to the upper limit of the cams RPM range.
 
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:44 PM
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yea I dint really think it was a apples to apples comparison, ha. basicly its kind of like my car is to the point where probable your average person would not want to DD it but to me I have no problem doing it. The cams for the Fit are kind of the same, for someone that wants the most out of there car its no big deal to live with the quirks that it would have
 
  #11  
Old 01-19-2012, 03:50 PM
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Yea and thats why streetability discussions are usually a waste of time.

Completely subjective.

Twin-disk/Dogbox/Cage/Big turbo/Cammed/Straightpipe? I can and have DD'd a combo like that.

Granted it also had a radio and A/C. The guy who bought it from me couldn't stand it, never got the hang of the dogbox because he was too much of a pussy to bang each gear home, was embarrassed by the noise and engagement of the twindisk and the noise from the exhaust drove him nuts.

So he parted it out and has a stock R1 and a Toyota Carolla now.

Lame.

Hell, I'll be DD-ing the DSM when the Fit goes under the knife lol That'll be interesting.
 

Last edited by DiamondStarMonsters; 01-19-2012 at 03:55 PM.
  #12  
Old 01-19-2012, 08:30 PM
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there are N / A using this cam
is there any dyno results of its
my gd for daily use and sometimes i come to track day
 
  #13  
Old 02-02-2012, 12:07 PM
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Can anyone enlighten me on this one, as cat cams makes a "street grind" cam as well.

263 / 259 is all the info the site as listed.

Cat Cams - Honda GD L15 Street Performance Camshaft (Fit/Jazz) drop in cam

Its a BMW site first and foremost, but they are carrying the cat cam street and race grinds for the Honda fit.
 
  #14  
Old 02-02-2012, 01:05 PM
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I was curious about the street cams also, maybe with the cam, intake/exhuast you could get somewhere? I'm guessing tuning for it would be key? The AEM FIC will only retard the timing, not advance it, with cams I would think you'd want the ability to advance the timing (maybe not)??? Any other tuning options for the Fit that don't cost big $$?
 
  #15  
Old 02-02-2012, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ragingti View Post
I was curious about the street cams also, maybe with the cam, intake/exhuast you could get somewhere? I'm guessing tuning for it would be key? The AEM FIC will only retard the timing, not advance it, with cams I would think you'd want the ability to advance the timing (maybe not)??? Any other tuning options for the Fit that don't cost big $$?
It says it's a drop in cam for daily drivers, so I am not sure how much tuning would be necessary (or possible for that matter). I am also curious as to what octane fuel I would need to run should I go with a mild cam upgrade. I would be running an SRI, header, and axleback with the cam so I would imagine the gain would be OK.
 
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Old 02-02-2012, 02:43 PM
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No cam is a drop in mod, it changes VE dramatically. You don't need to bump octane necessarily just for a cam change. For a "bigger" cam this will effect your dynamic compression and drop cylinder pressure and shift peak torque/power to the right, not accounting for other VE modifiers in the system.

At the very least you would need to change the VE/MAP/MAF and Timing/Fuel comp tables with a piggyback.

Honestly if you cannot raise the revlimit, or the springs you have cannot provide enough pressure over the nose to prevent float at your existing red line, there is no point.

All you have done is killed low and mid range power and then choked the cam by keeping stock everything else.

Again, any cam you use will require supporting mods that would cost more than a custom turbo kit, and gains would fall far short of those the turbo can provide.

If you are getting a cam/valvetrain and other VE mods to wind out real high, you will make good power. If you do that and boost the motor you will be making a ton of power over a large stretch of the rev range.

There is absolutely no point in just dropping in a cam on a stock Fit.
 
  #17  
Old 02-06-2012, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by DiamondStarMonsters View Post

...All you have done is killed low and mid range power and then choked the cam by keeping stock everything else...

...Again, any cam you use will require supporting mods that would cost more than a custom turbo kit, and gains would fall far short of those the turbo can provide...

There is absolutely no point in just dropping in a cam on a stock Fit.
While I appreciate your opinion on the matter, I have spoken to both the manufacturer AND the company that imports them, and they said that the cam grind profile of 263/259 does not require anything other than upgraded lifters. It improves power throughout the whole rev range while maintaining daily street-ability. This cam was SPECIFICALLY designed for people who just wanted a little more pep out of the engine without going to a turbo or supercharger.
 
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:24 PM
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And they would never lie to you to sell a product I'm sure.

You've made up your mind, do it.
 
  #19  
Old 02-06-2012, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by DiamondStarMonsters View Post
And they would never lie to you to sell a product I'm sure.

You've made up your mind, do it.
You're right, I have, as I talked extensively with the people who actually manufacture the cams themselves, and the company that imports them. You have listed VAC Camshafts in your future mods. Are they from VAC motorsports? If so call and talk to Steve, then come back and give me an opinion.

All I am trying to figure out is why every cam maker out there that lists a stage 1 cam, or street grind lists the stock valvetrain as safe to use, and you say it isn't, and to get anything worthwhile I have to spend more than a custom turbo kit. APPARENTLY all of these companies are wrong then huh, and you know the right answer? Which cam company, or racing motor builder do you work for?

I am seriously not trying to be a d1ck about this, if you're right, and you have to replace everything for street grind cam, what is the point of these companies even making them? If a cam is that big of a switch in an engine, and you're going to have to switch out all the parts anyway, why would anyone get a mild grind street cam?

These are specs on the "street grind" cam from catcams.co.uk

263 / 259
208 / 206
10.10 / 9.75mm
0.80 / 0.60mm
O.E.M.
 

Last edited by Sherbs_Inc; 02-06-2012 at 07:10 PM.
  #20  
Old 02-06-2012, 09:00 PM
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Your reading comprehension is apparently quite poor. I've laid out quite succinctly for you the hows and whys.

You can be a dick all you want, its not really my problem. Its your car, you seemingly have no idea what you're getting into and you just didn't like what I had to say in spite of the fact that I have had more cams in and out of just one of my motors than the amount of cars most people will go through in their life time.

If you were so sure and confident in the line these guys have fed you, what are you waiting for?

I know for a fact that on the stock cam profiles, with stock lift/ramp rates, etc you can rev the L15A1 to 8k rpm before worrying about valve float. We have traditional springs, and harmonics and pressure over the nose become an issue VERY quickly as soon as you change profile and valve acceleration rates with a different lobe and larger overall lift. Even at the stock redline.

Where do I say you have to change "everything?" That is hyperbole and you sound like a child.

I listed specifics, so how about you adress the parts you find in contention instead of just throwing your arms and saying "come at me bro"

What can you find here that is not true of any cam on a completely stock vehicle:

No cam is a drop in mod, it changes VE dramatically. You don't need to bump octane necessarily just for a cam change. For a "bigger" cam this will effect your dynamic compression and drop cylinder pressure and shift peak torque/power to the right, not accounting for other VE modifiers in the system.

At the very least you would need to change the VE/MAP/MAF and Timing/Fuel comp tables with a piggyback.

Honestly if you cannot raise the revlimit, or the springs you have cannot provide enough pressure over the nose to prevent float at your existing red line, there is no point.

All you have done is killed low and mid range power and then choked the cam by keeping stock everything else.

Again, any cam you use will require supporting mods that would cost more than a custom turbo kit, and gains would fall far short of those the turbo can provide.

If you are getting a cam/valvetrain and other VE mods to wind out real high, you will make good power. If you do that and boost the motor you will be making a ton of power over a large stretch of the rev range.

There is absolutely no point in just dropping in a cam on a stock Fit.
It sounds like you have never done this before, is that accurate? If you have I am not sure what the surprise is all about.

How do you propose to tune your idle now with a new centerline, LSA, and duration? Whats the point in a bigger cam that shifts your VE to the right, but you haven't increased the redline? Nor have you planned or described any other supporting VE mods? Have you looked at how quickly torque and power plummet on the stock dyno plots floating around?

You don't seem to have taken any of this into consideration.

It's not like I profit off your naivete.

As you've noticed I have their biggest L15A1 cam set to be a part of my build. Why?

Because I actually know what I am getting into and picked the cam that will compliment the parts I have to provide the largest and most usable powerband. I am also buying a stock cam gear to modify.

You just seem to see this as some sort of "bolt-on" which couldn't be farther from the truth.

Do I gain financially if you buy this cam? No. So why would I blow smoke up your ass, especially if I plan to buy a product from the same company?

Logic, get some. Did you not read any of my prior posts in this thread?
 

Last edited by DiamondStarMonsters; 02-06-2012 at 09:09 PM.

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