I'm Sick of How My Car Drives
#1
07-25-2013, 06:00 PM
I'm Sick of How My Car Drives
So FF.net, as some of you may know I am on Tein S-Tech springs and my OEM shocks. Well, the shocks seem well past their sell-by date and I've never been a huge fan of the springs since Day One (I suspect I was too accustomed to the radness of my old C/O setup on a previous car).
The handling is also something that really, really bothers me, when I'm not pushing the car, yeah it feels completely fine, however when I get even a little aggressive I am forced to deal with massive amounts of understeer, or coax a little lift-off oversteer out of the car and sometimes even a bit of handbrake is needed to get some rotation.
The ride is not nice, at least IMO. Bouncy (which I chalk up to the mismatch between OEM dampers and Tein's spring rates) and harsh are not qualities I want from my daily driven vehicle. These qualities are amplified while driving on curvy back roads that are not necessarily glass-like surfaces, which makes the driving experience a bit hairy at times.
This leads me to my conclusion/question/purpose for this thread:
What can I do to improve/fix this?
What I won't do:
1.) Go back to OEM springs. I can't deal with stock ride height, even the S-Techs ride too high for my tastes, I'd like to be at Eibach Sportline ride height:
2.) Use T1R/KSport/Megan/BC/D2/FunctionForm/etc. coil-overs. I'd like this setup to last me a few years, and these won't really address my issues anyway.
What I will do:
1.) Buy a Progress RSB. This is a certainty.
What I need help with:
1.) Choosing dampers. Right now I'm thinking Tokico Blues up front with the RedShift Koni Yellows out back.
2.) Choosing springs. I was thinking Ground Control sleeves, however from what I've been told by some helpful members (EX: Hootie), is that they do not go low up front. This is an issue for me.
I'd like to avoid any of the off the shelve lowering spring options because I've never been impressed with one of them in my experience with cars of all platforms. Swift could probably change my mind, however the car would be too high for my sensibilities.
3.) Any other things that could potentially help in this issue. When these upgrades are the car will also be receiving new summer wheels with 205/50/15 BFG Rivals, so the tires' limits will not be an issue.
Please remember:
This car is not a race car, but nor is it a Lexus LS460. I don't want 16/14k spring rates like I have had in the past, but I don't need something that will coddle me to sleep either. I want a fun street car, nothing more and nothing less.
Thanks dudes/dudettes.
The handling is also something that really, really bothers me, when I'm not pushing the car, yeah it feels completely fine, however when I get even a little aggressive I am forced to deal with massive amounts of understeer, or coax a little lift-off oversteer out of the car and sometimes even a bit of handbrake is needed to get some rotation.
The ride is not nice, at least IMO. Bouncy (which I chalk up to the mismatch between OEM dampers and Tein's spring rates) and harsh are not qualities I want from my daily driven vehicle. These qualities are amplified while driving on curvy back roads that are not necessarily glass-like surfaces, which makes the driving experience a bit hairy at times.
This leads me to my conclusion/question/purpose for this thread:
What can I do to improve/fix this?
What I won't do:
1.) Go back to OEM springs. I can't deal with stock ride height, even the S-Techs ride too high for my tastes, I'd like to be at Eibach Sportline ride height:
2.) Use T1R/KSport/Megan/BC/D2/FunctionForm/etc. coil-overs. I'd like this setup to last me a few years, and these won't really address my issues anyway.
What I will do:
1.) Buy a Progress RSB. This is a certainty.
What I need help with:
1.) Choosing dampers. Right now I'm thinking Tokico Blues up front with the RedShift Koni Yellows out back.
2.) Choosing springs. I was thinking Ground Control sleeves, however from what I've been told by some helpful members (EX: Hootie), is that they do not go low up front. This is an issue for me.
I'd like to avoid any of the off the shelve lowering spring options because I've never been impressed with one of them in my experience with cars of all platforms. Swift could probably change my mind, however the car would be too high for my sensibilities.
3.) Any other things that could potentially help in this issue. When these upgrades are the car will also be receiving new summer wheels with 205/50/15 BFG Rivals, so the tires' limits will not be an issue.
Please remember:
This car is not a race car, but nor is it a Lexus LS460. I don't want 16/14k spring rates like I have had in the past, but I don't need something that will coddle me to sleep either. I want a fun street car, nothing more and nothing less.
Thanks dudes/dudettes.
#2
07-25-2013, 06:22 PM
Your well on the right path.
Progress RSB won't drastically effect ride, but for sure helps rear rotation.
I have that EXACT tire setup for AutoX. I have them on a 7.5" rim though. The Rival only really performs well if it isnt "over tire'd" on the rim. If you plan on seeing any wet, like standing water, I would look at the RE11A and or the Dunlop Z II which come in a 195/50R 15 ( and even a 195/55R15 for the Z II.) So far, the ZII has been a preference for "daily" folks, as it has quite a stiff side wall it handles transitions WELL and will work better if squeezed onto a smallish width rim. The RE11A is just better in the wet.
You will want camber bolts...at least 1 set no matter what you do in the front. -1.5 helps but -2.0 will help turn in and grip but not mess up tire wear so to speak. To get that you will need a COMPETENT alignment place. Front Toe set at zero will help as well. You CAN modify the rear (like my custom full contact camber shims) but don't think you will need to past OEM for handling purposes. MAYBE the camber for clearance depending on how low you wan to be + wheel/tire package.
As far as dampers...
If you go the Koni Yellows with the GC setup from Redshift in the rear, it will need to be paired with a 6" spring to get the height you want.
The fronts....are an issue.
Tokico Blues are a stock replacement, and they will no be any better than KYB or whatever other OEM replacements there are.
The only place that needs a real "coil over" on a GD is the front... But again, you are right that the GC sleeve will most likely not have the height options you want.
I actually had the Eibach Sportline springs with Tokico HTS combo MANY moons ago. For Form + occasional performance, that was a darn good setup. Ride quality was not great, for sure bouncy, but I attribute that to my n00b status at shock tuning back then.
The only way to get close to tucking tire or even a 1/2-1 finger gap is going to be coil over front...I am 99% positive...
I hope that helps!!!
Progress RSB won't drastically effect ride, but for sure helps rear rotation.
I have that EXACT tire setup for AutoX. I have them on a 7.5" rim though. The Rival only really performs well if it isnt "over tire'd" on the rim. If you plan on seeing any wet, like standing water, I would look at the RE11A and or the Dunlop Z II which come in a 195/50R 15 ( and even a 195/55R15 for the Z II.) So far, the ZII has been a preference for "daily" folks, as it has quite a stiff side wall it handles transitions WELL and will work better if squeezed onto a smallish width rim. The RE11A is just better in the wet.
You will want camber bolts...at least 1 set no matter what you do in the front. -1.5 helps but -2.0 will help turn in and grip but not mess up tire wear so to speak. To get that you will need a COMPETENT alignment place. Front Toe set at zero will help as well. You CAN modify the rear (like my custom full contact camber shims) but don't think you will need to past OEM for handling purposes. MAYBE the camber for clearance depending on how low you wan to be + wheel/tire package.
As far as dampers...
If you go the Koni Yellows with the GC setup from Redshift in the rear, it will need to be paired with a 6" spring to get the height you want.
The fronts....are an issue.
Tokico Blues are a stock replacement, and they will no be any better than KYB or whatever other OEM replacements there are.
The only place that needs a real "coil over" on a GD is the front... But again, you are right that the GC sleeve will most likely not have the height options you want.
I actually had the Eibach Sportline springs with Tokico HTS combo MANY moons ago. For Form + occasional performance, that was a darn good setup. Ride quality was not great, for sure bouncy, but I attribute that to my n00b status at shock tuning back then.
The only way to get close to tucking tire or even a 1/2-1 finger gap is going to be coil over front...I am 99% positive...
I hope that helps!!!
#3
07-25-2013, 06:31 PM
It does!
I forgot to mention, I'm planning on right around -2* of negative camber up front through re-shaping the current holes so I don't need to use camber bolts. Now to find some front coilovers without the rears haha.
As for the Rivals, the ZII is definitely an option, I think with tire choice it'll be whichever I can get a better deal on at that time, even the Federal 595 RS-R will be an option. I don't aspire to be an auto-x/time attack champion, just to have fun.
And yeah, the RSB is just to help with rotation, ride isn't a consideration in that part choice.
I forgot to mention, I'm planning on right around -2* of negative camber up front through re-shaping the current holes so I don't need to use camber bolts. Now to find some front coilovers without the rears haha.
As for the Rivals, the ZII is definitely an option, I think with tire choice it'll be whichever I can get a better deal on at that time, even the Federal 595 RS-R will be an option. I don't aspire to be an auto-x/time attack champion, just to have fun.
And yeah, the RSB is just to help with rotation, ride isn't a consideration in that part choice.
Last edited by mike410b; 07-25-2013 at 06:34 PM.
#4
07-25-2013, 06:44 PM
The Federal is a CHEAP tire that does not suck!!! It over heats and gets greasy quick though if pushed though. No clue on what it does in the wet...
Are you modifying the steering knuckle?!.... That is....brave... Stuff that is "slotted," be it struts or coils, is far more likely to slip than a properly torqued camber bolt... It will work, but the $40 for the bolts seems like a cheaper/safer option... And even with two different brands of bolt (not recommended) and a year plus of street and heavy AutoX I have never had a camber bolt slip.
Are you modifying the steering knuckle?!.... That is....brave... Stuff that is "slotted," be it struts or coils, is far more likely to slip than a properly torqued camber bolt... It will work, but the $40 for the bolts seems like a cheaper/safer option... And even with two different brands of bolt (not recommended) and a year plus of street and heavy AutoX I have never had a camber bolt slip.
#5
07-25-2013, 06:46 PM
If I had a GD i'd have HTS + Sportline + Progress RSB + BFG Rivals
If that pic you posted is on Sportlines I wouldn't want to go any lower than that anyway, and if HTS can't handle lowering springs that's slightly disappointing.
If that pic you posted is on Sportlines I wouldn't want to go any lower than that anyway, and if HTS can't handle lowering springs that's slightly disappointing.
#7
07-25-2013, 07:23 PM
^Got it. Yea, Ovaling that top hole will work. Buddy Clubs for the GE actually come that way... Sill not a fan. Makes installing camber bolts easier though 
I think If I had left the front HTS's on full soft and rears at maybe 2-3 turns out from full hard, the Sportlines would have been PERFECT. Instead I swapped to Swifts, and now my current hybrid setup. Skunk2 fronts with 8K Swift springs (MEh on S2 dampers) and Koni yellow rears, swapping bettwern 6K and 13K springs.
I think If I had left the front HTS's on full soft and rears at maybe 2-3 turns out from full hard, the Sportlines would have been PERFECT. Instead I swapped to Swifts, and now my current hybrid setup. Skunk2 fronts with 8K Swift springs (MEh on S2 dampers) and Koni yellow rears, swapping bettwern 6K and 13K springs.
#10
07-30-2013, 11:41 AM
^ i looked into that as well, and there are a few pieces here and there, but nothing that resembles a complete refresh kit... which saddens me (i really want front lca and rear trailing arm bushes)...
it's been a while since i've looked at that though...
it's been a while since i've looked at that though...
#12
07-30-2013, 04:28 PM
DO NOT PURCHASE WHITELINE BUSHINGS FOR THE FIT
they are based on the non US spec car with a different front lower control arm and WILL NOT WORK. I know because they are in a box in my garage collecting dust.
I am currently re searching these to confirm US spec fitment.
http://www.kingmotorsports.com/p-262...piece-set.aspx
they are based on the non US spec car with a different front lower control arm and WILL NOT WORK. I know because they are in a box in my garage collecting dust.
I am currently re searching these to confirm US spec fitment.
http://www.kingmotorsports.com/p-262...piece-set.aspx
#13
07-30-2013, 05:07 PM
DO NOT PURCHASE WHITELINE BUSHINGS FOR THE FIT
they are based on the non US spec car with a different front lower control arm and WILL NOT WORK. I know because they are in a box in my garage collecting dust.
I am currently re searching these to confirm US spec fitment.
http://www.kingmotorsports.com/p-262...piece-set.aspx
they are based on the non US spec car with a different front lower control arm and WILL NOT WORK. I know because they are in a box in my garage collecting dust.
I am currently re searching these to confirm US spec fitment.
http://www.kingmotorsports.com/p-262...piece-set.aspx
#14
07-30-2013, 05:11 PM
Hardrace stuff fits USDM GD3? I would use that if so. Either that or new Honda OEM bushings.
No poly for me Whiteline or otherwise on a DD with salty winters and crappy roads. Salty winters generally mean crappy roads, so I assume both apply to you.
No poly for me Whiteline or otherwise on a DD with salty winters and crappy roads. Salty winters generally mean crappy roads, so I assume both apply to you.
#15
07-30-2013, 05:58 PM
Not in stock. Should arrive mid next week. They have my info to take measures and call, but if your willing to "drop in" that would be IDEAL!!!
#16
07-30-2013, 06:08 PM
OEM Honda has been my go to.... but for the LCA, nothing is sold seperate and the only option is to buy the entire assembled LCA for $$$ and special order of course...
#17
07-30-2013, 06:25 PM
Incoming
HARDRACE - Performance Suspension Parts
LCA with RCA included would be cool beans, so would trailing arm bushings. It's all just hardened rubber (harder than OEM I mean) instead of poly so it's less prone to cracking and wear and will last longer. That's all the important stuff anyway, just use OEM for everything else.
HARDRACE - Performance Suspension Parts
LCA with RCA included would be cool beans, so would trailing arm bushings. It's all just hardened rubber (harder than OEM I mean) instead of poly so it's less prone to cracking and wear and will last longer. That's all the important stuff anyway, just use OEM for everything else.
#18
07-30-2013, 06:29 PM
Incoming
HARDRACE - Performance Suspension Parts
LCA with RCA included would be cool beans, so would trailing arm bushings. It's all just hardened rubber (harder than OEM I mean) instead of poly so it's less prone to cracking and wear and will last longer. That's all the important stuff anyway, just use OEM for everything else.
HARDRACE - Performance Suspension Parts
LCA with RCA included would be cool beans, so would trailing arm bushings. It's all just hardened rubber (harder than OEM I mean) instead of poly so it's less prone to cracking and wear and will last longer. That's all the important stuff anyway, just use OEM for everything else.
#19
07-30-2013, 06:32 PM
Meh 
Do you know if the GE LCAs are different? They have GE parts LCA+RCA too.
/threadjack sorry Mike
On-topic Edit: OP should get the J's RCAs or Hardrace RCAs by themselves since you can't use the whole LCA. I have seen the light with RCAs in the past and they make a hell of a difference on lowered cars, and I think those Sportline lower enough that you would benefit from them.
Do you know if the GE LCAs are different? They have GE parts LCA+RCA too.
/threadjack sorry Mike
On-topic Edit: OP should get the J's RCAs or Hardrace RCAs by themselves since you can't use the whole LCA. I have seen the light with RCAs in the past and they make a hell of a difference on lowered cars, and I think those Sportline lower enough that you would benefit from them.
Last edited by Wanderer.; 07-30-2013 at 06:44 PM.
#20
07-30-2013, 08:03 PM
Meh
Do you know if the GE LCAs are different? They have GE parts LCA+RCA too.
/threadjack sorry Mike
On-topic Edit: OP should get the J's RCAs or Hardrace RCAs by themselves since you can't use the whole LCA. I have seen the light with RCAs in the past and they make a hell of a difference on lowered cars, and I think those Sportline lower enough that you would benefit from them.
Do you know if the GE LCAs are different? They have GE parts LCA+RCA too.
/threadjack sorry Mike
On-topic Edit: OP should get the J's RCAs or Hardrace RCAs by themselves since you can't use the whole LCA. I have seen the light with RCAs in the past and they make a hell of a difference on lowered cars, and I think those Sportline lower enough that you would benefit from them.
On topic, RCA's are great... but scary on a Fit. If pressed in/out wrong the LCA gets bent... and as we already said they are $$$. Also, considering that hardrace pic shows a non S LCA, who is to say theres OR the J's ones will work in a US spec car...? That is why I never spent the $300 or so on the J's ones...
