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GI: GE8 Rear Disc conversion Brackets

  #1  
Old 04-24-2013, 05:43 PM
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GI: GE8 Rear Disc conversion Brackets

As per this https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/2nd-...prototype.html thread, let's see how many people are interested.

The approximate price is ~$300 plus cad costs (maybe $100-$150 total, which will be distributed evenly), obviously the more people we get the less the cad cost is for each. If we get 10 people it should be ~$300+~$15.

Just to be clear this is just for the bracket that will make the conversion possible.

You will also need these parts below to complete the full conversion
Originally Posted by alltrac101 View Post
...

Parts needed for the complete conversion are as follows
Rotors & Calipers (new or used) I got mine for $200 with the ebrake cables
SS brake lines (Goodridge ss for the CRZ) incl the fronts
8) 12x1.25x30mm grade 10 or better Bolts
4) 10x1.25x20mm grade 10 or better Bolts
2) male to male metric adaptors for the brake lines
and as an FYI there needs to be some modifying of the welded factory flange.
Originally Posted by alltrac101 View Post
The Main Kit Flange bolts directly to the Factory Axle. The welded factory flange will need some minor trimming to put the 2nd flange (for the caliper) on.

1. Wafulz
2. FitStir
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Confirm & add your name to the list if you're interested.
 
  #2  
Old 04-24-2013, 06:20 PM
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IM Interested Come On People lets get this going !!!!!!!!!!!!
 
  #3  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:29 PM
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I pm'd the others who showed interest in the other thread....
 
  #4  
Old 04-25-2013, 06:05 PM
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BUmp!! and the Wait Begins
 
  #5  
Old 04-29-2013, 05:36 PM
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Well this is Failing
 
  #6  
Old 04-30-2013, 10:10 AM
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Thumbs up

Nah, man.... patience is a virtue.
 
  #7  
Old 04-30-2013, 11:48 AM
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do you have one bid or a few bids on the job? $300/bracket set seems quite steep. I would have it bid on by a few shops. even if you were only planning on a run of 10 sets, it should still be lower than that unless you're looking at profiting.
 
  #8  
Old 04-30-2013, 12:13 PM
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He prob is. I can get it made for wayyyy less done correctly to

But it is what it is. Ill still buy it.
 
  #9  
Old 04-30-2013, 12:28 PM
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I think alltrac did get estimates from different shops... he did a one off on his.
Looks like Wafulz & I might have to just do one off's too...


The other alternative is the rear JDM trailing arm swap for rear discs, but that's $$$$... better though since it's OEM, but much more expensive.
 
  #10  
Old 04-30-2013, 01:22 PM
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JDM rear i found for less but just saying

ill still buy the kit if he gets me the price
 
  #11  
Old 04-30-2013, 10:48 PM
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Hey, not passing judgment. this is a capitalistic society after all. I just think it can be more affordable. not trying to dump on your thread.

Just a question or two more, will these be heat treated? what material are they being produced from?
 
  #12  
Old 05-01-2013, 12:04 PM
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This is a copy of a direct reply from a machinist I've used for many years....I trust his work:

>Patrick,

I need $350 for the first set, $225 for additional sets. I will also need actual shipping ($16 first set). I can get them going soon as work load is low at this time.

-Sam

I personally thought it was a little high & does not include compensating the person converting my working drawings to a CAD file. I usually give him $75-$150. That's really about an hours rate, but usually he has to make 5-10 corrections to get it perfect. Then I got another quote from a guy here locally & he was within $50 for the 10 all said & done.

Now bear in mind, the First bracket has to be done as a single because it will need to be test fitted to make sure its right.

Now for my time, having done a few conversions in the past, to get to the end product I'm testing, required purchasing a rear beam & actually making a few brackets, I first tried to do a one piece bracket but it ended up being way too complicated, then I figured with a 2pc setup, it can be upgraded to a bigger brake more easily.
The material is alloy steel which is way stronger than the 6061 aluminum I'm testing...its steel because the aluminum caliper bracket will need a nut insert pressed into the base flange, which will add cost.
As of today, I am waiting to hear from 1 more machinist.
Originally I looked into importing a used jdm rear beam complete, but at the time we're looking at $1200+ with no guarantee the beam is good. I personally have over $600 in material costs not including my time, so even if the brackets are $300 & you get the rotor/calipers for $200 you're still way below importing a rear beam (i guess I'm repeating myself) with the same end result, improving the GE braking.
This is being done as a do-it-your project. I'm sure, almost positive, if a "vendor" did a conversion similar to mine, they would only sell as a complete kit for $800+ because its not just a switch hub rear beam....Maybe that's why after 5 yrs the GE hasn't gotten a kit....
Pat
 
  #13  
Old 05-01-2013, 12:59 PM
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hmmmm so that means someone gots to buy it for 350 : / if i have to i guess plz get me a price if u can when hear from other shop
 
  #14  
Old 05-01-2013, 06:00 PM
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As soon as I know I'll let you guys know.
 
  #15  
Old 05-01-2013, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by alltrac101 View Post
Originally I looked into importing a used jdm rear beam complete, but at the time we're looking at $1200+ with no guarantee the beam is good. I personally have over $600 in material costs not including my time, so even if the brackets are $300 & you get the rotor/calipers for $200 you're still way below importing a rear beam (i guess I'm repeating myself) with the same end result, improving the GE braking.
This is being done as a do-it-your project. I'm sure, almost positive, if a "vendor" did a conversion similar to mine, they would only sell as a complete kit for $800+ because its not just a switch hub rear beam....Maybe that's why after 5 yrs the GE hasn't gotten a kit....
Pat
If you can get a Good JDM Beam, then you will be able to sell your USDM Beam and recoup some of the cost,
so for example,
since you were able to get a quote for a USED JDM rear beam for $1,200,
and you were able to sell your USDM beam for $500 minimum
then total you only spent $700. and for $700 you get all the parts and beam originally design by Honda to work FLAWLESSLY on Honda Fit.

But you are right that, it only work if you can find a Good USED JDM beam,
so unless you are sure about the used JDM condition then this is a BIG GAMBLE... and perhaps TOO RISKY.

That mean, your kit had a good chance to be a Better and More COST EFFECTIVE alternative to the full JDM rear beam
conversion, not to mention LESS RISK involved with bad JDM beam !!!

Now,
I do think that your price target of $500 ($300 bracket plus $200 used rotor and caliper) is a little low because that is not the total cost that you need to spent on this kit.
You still need to buy Brake line, either Stainless Steel or Rubber.
If you decide to go stainless steel, you need total of 6 brake line.
2 for front brake,
2 near the rear axle mounting point and chassis to the brake pipe that used to go to the rear drum brake
and 2 more from that brake pipe that used to go to the rear drum brake (with male to male adaptor) to the new caliper.

if you only use 4 SS lines, that mean you still have rubber line in your system as a weak point.
but of course going with rubber hose is fine and work too.

also some people do this conversion mainly for cosmetic,
and in order to do that they either need a shiny rebuild caliper or paint it.
this add more cost from as little as $20 for paint (including primer and gloss coat) to much more if they decide to buy a rebuilt caliper or even more if they decide to buy a brand new caliper.

a used rotor is also a risk because you got to make sure it is for sale in the junk yard not because it is already reach it's minimum thickness or warp, but you got to make sure it is available as used part at junk yard probably because the car is in accident and the rotor were sold because of that but still in good condition.

How about the Parking brake line?
I understand that you manage to get your rotor and caliper include parking brake for that $200, but sometimes it is not included when you get a used or rebuild rotor and they will cost quite a lot too.

and how about brake pads? another added cost.

Ok here is a quote of a post from you in your build thread:

Originally Posted by alltrac101 View Post
I just receive the Goodridge brakelines & will install everything soon to test. If it works as expected, I'll let you guys know.
I have the drawings & have to convert it to a cad file
I'll have to figure out how to sell here & contact the guy who've cut out flanges for me. This most likely will be for the "Brackets" only, Civic SI rear calipers & rotors are readily available used so in the end will cost less than $800
Thanks for looking
Pat
Now, your original cost approximation of $800 is more reasonable.

I think if you really want to make this kit a success,
it is best if you provide the complete kit as oppose to just bracket.
This way, people who want to buy will know for sure how much the total cost and there will be no hidden surprise later...
if you were able to offer a complete kit for $800 or preferably below
and guarantee it will be bolt on,
I think you will be successful in selling the kit.

because you might be lucky that you can get a good condition rotor and caliper for just $200 and including Parking Brake Cable, but can other people be as consistently lucky to get that same condition of used rotor
and caliper for $200 (include Parking Brake Cable)?

Not everybody is as good as you in getting good value for money rotor and caliper including good working parking brake cable from junk yard.

but if you can provide the used rotor/caliper plus Parking Brake Cable in good condition consistently for $200 then this will be a success !

because that mean the total cost will surely below $800,...
Ok, you provide bracket : $300
You provide used rotor/caliper plus Parking Brake Cable :$200
You Provide stainless steel brake line (6 lines) $250 (Mugen cost $30O)
You provide the brake pads: $50 ??? (I am blind about brake pads so I assume $50 for standard OEM replacement quality one)
You provide all the bolts (strong enough for this application) and male brake line adaptor for this kit $50

Let's see $300 + $200 + $250 + $50 + $50 = $850 !!!

and if you can get the cost of bracket to $225 that mean just $775 in total !!!

and for some people that do not want a SS brake line that mean the cost will be even less ($775- $250 = $525) !!!
well, ok got to buy a pair of rubber hose, so let say $25 for rubber hose and that mean the kit will cost $550 !!!

very cheap, but this can only be done CONSISTENTLY at the Price Above if you provide the complete kit.

yeah since, this is a USED Caliper conversion, that mean people will still have to clean the rust and paint the caliper themselves, but I think that will not a be problem, or of course you could also add a Painting Service for the used caliper for maybe $50 a pair, and this is a good price.

Bingo, many will be interested to buy from you, and soon you will be able
to create kit for other Honda car and more opportunity for you !

Good Luck
 

Last edited by BMW ALPINA; 05-01-2013 at 09:20 PM.
  #16  
Old 05-01-2013, 09:21 PM
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Over $200 is too much for brackets.
I think I will just use some poster board and balsa wood to get a fitment, shape, and hole alignment, then transfer to 2 pieces of aluminum, one for the hub adapter, one for the actual bracket.

Making it two piece may allow under $100 kit cost
 
  #17  
Old 05-01-2013, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 13fit View Post
Over $200 is too much for brackets.
I think I will just use some poster board and balsa wood to get a fitment, shape, and hole alignment, then transfer to 2 pieces of aluminum, one for the hub adapter, one for the actual bracket.

Making it two piece may allow under $100 kit cost
Hi 13fit,

That is because you have the expertise to do your own bracket,
but for some people who do not have the expertise as you,
$200 or $225 or even $300 is still a fair price to pay...

some have the expertise but might not had the time to do this,
or their hourly time at their work place might worth much more
then the money saved if they do this on their own...

I mean, if I were to provide this kit, I will surely want to make little money
for my R&D, so even $300 is still a FAIR Price from my personal point of view.

but that is just me...
 
  #18  
Old 05-02-2013, 01:40 AM
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BMW ALPINA
There is actually more to the story on the imported jdm beam, having been in the parts/vehicle importing business with my brother, we imported parts (engines/trans/fenders/hoods) every once in a while, whole cars wrecked but repairable...no flood vehicles (I'll get back to this) to the West Indies. We still have our contacts in Asia, its changer quite a bit since we got out.
Being Asian ourselves we never trusted them fully & I still remember a quote from one of our biggest seller "everyting is avir-able, ba no gua-raun-tees" in an oriental accent, we still laugh at that to this day.

Back to the flood vehicles...in Asia when there are flood cars, most are from rains, its fresh water....these waters don't rise up easy, they are typically fast moving & rising with lots of energy. We would see flood cars with hubcaps missing & road rash all over the rims, I mean the whole side of the rim, that's because the cars are picked up and pushed around like soda cans (you've seen it in the tsunamis)...Initially we got a few & lots of other guys in the industry gobbled them up, these cars are presented in bulk, hard to inspect. So after they have landed & clear customs we get to see what we bought...more than half the body has minimal damage but all the suspensions are bent...My guess is now all the purchasers stopped buying flood cars that's why I think they are so quickly parted out now.....So once the wheels are taken off & suspension pieces are removed from a flood car, damage is impossible to tell. I don't care if it has 1 mile on it, there is a chance even a small chance its damaged. I'm not buying. Now if its someone I personally know & he knows the car & can assure me (remember they don't guarantee) its good, then maybe.

There actually is an advantage in using the usdm rear beam, in my case. Since I anticipated running the car in a NASA or Chin weekend racing there is a chance, in a mishap, of bending the rear beam, a US one is much easier to get.

I'm fighting do this for a living & really have no interest in doing a full kit, no time. I initially did it for my own use, not to sell, thought I'd share to show it could be done.
You are an exception, you like what you like, spare no expense, get it done right, but most of these guys/girls are making payments on their cars, rear disc is a want, not a need, so, Yes, it work for the end user, but the really hard parts are the brackets
Non oem rotors can be had for $50 per/pair, refurbished calipers for $50 each, U Pull yards calipers are $15, e brake cables $10, upgraded brake lines are a given, needs to be done any way, the 2 short lines optional, painting optional, their time is a love affair anyway.

Today, if I were in the market for a rear disc conversion with none still available (the GD beam is different ) I personally would get brackets for $300

Best of luck to you
 
  #19  
Old 05-02-2013, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by alltrac101 View Post
BMW ALPINA
There is actually more to the story on the imported jdm beam, having been in the parts/vehicle importing business with my brother, we imported parts (engines/trans/fenders/hoods) every once in a while, whole cars wrecked but repairable...no flood vehicles (I'll get back to this) to the West Indies. We still have our contacts in Asia, its changer quite a bit since we got out.
Being Asian ourselves we never trusted them fully & I still remember a quote from one of our biggest seller "everyting is avir-able, ba no gua-raun-tees" in an oriental accent, we still laugh at that to this day.

Back to the flood vehicles...in Asia when there are flood cars, most are from rains, its fresh water....these waters don't rise up easy, they are typically fast moving & rising with lots of energy. We would see flood cars with hubcaps missing & road rash all over the rims, I mean the whole side of the rim, that's because the cars are picked up and pushed around like soda cans (you've seen it in the tsunamis)...Initially we got a few & lots of other guys in the industry gobbled them up, these cars are presented in bulk, hard to inspect. So after they have landed & clear customs we get to see what we bought...more than half the body has minimal damage but all the suspensions are bent...My guess is now all the purchasers stopped buying flood cars that's why I think they are so quickly parted out now.....So once the wheels are taken off & suspension pieces are removed from a flood car, damage is impossible to tell. I don't care if it has 1 mile on it, there is a chance even a small chance its damaged. I'm not buying. Now if its someone I personally know & he knows the car & can assure me (remember they don't guarantee) its good, then maybe.


Best of luck to you
The Thailand Flood Water that hit Honda Factory in Thailand
is not really a fast moving current but slowly rising one.

Here are the news that contain the image:
Thai Floods: Honda Under Water

and here are the image,
as you can see most of those car do NOT suffer any damage at all to the body, just flooded
in fact they are still lined up like the day before they were flooded.

No BENT WHEEL which I think is the sign that there is no impact to the Beam

so if the part is from a brand new Honda, most probably it came from the Honda Factory in Thailand it self and it should be safe.

The key is to source the parts from Brand New Car that was Fresh Water flood victim of Honda Thailand factory,
not easy as you point out, unless you can find a trusted source

another important key is to get someone in Japan (your friend not a purchasing agent)
to buy it for you and had the junk yard guarantee that they will accept return in 30 days if the axle turn out bent.
Yes, after it is send to US, and if turn out it is bent of course I will not return it because the shipping cost back to Japan would be expensive,
but since the junk yard do NOT know that this axle is going to US,
and all they know is they are selling to a Japanese person going to use it on Japanese road,
and yet the junk yard still willing to give 30 days money back warranty,
that mean most likely the axle is in good condition, otherwise they won't give you warranty.
That is my secret to get good JDM rear axle, that is how I MANAGE my risk

















 

Last edited by BMW ALPINA; 05-02-2013 at 03:35 AM.
  #20  
Old 05-02-2013, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by alltrac101 View Post

I'm fighting do this for a living & really have no interest in doing a full kit, no time. I initially did it for my own use, not to sell, thought I'd share to show it could be done.
You are an exception, you like what you like, spare no expense, get it done right, but most of these guys/girls are making payments on their cars, rear disc is a want, not a need, so, Yes, it work for the end user, but the really hard parts are the brackets
Non oem rotors can be had for $50 per/pair, refurbished calipers for $50 each, U Pull yards calipers are $15, e brake cables $10, upgraded brake lines are a given, needs to be done any way, the 2 short lines optional, painting optional, their time is a love affair anyway.

Today, if I were in the market for a rear disc conversion with none still available (the GD beam is different ) I personally would get brackets for $300

Best of luck to you
I am just pointing out on how come there is little interest so far in this bracket group buy
vs.
the old days when there were group buy for COMPLETE Rear Brake Kit conversion from T1R (and some other vendor) for the GD kits.

Simply because most people who do not have the expertise,
want to get it done easy and don't want to bother to looks for other parts in the junk yard, but they will be prepared to pay a bit more.

They also want to know the exact budget,
which can only be done if you offer a complete kit.
as you point out, many of Fit owners are people with limited budget,
and it is paramount for them to know the EXACT budget upfront and pay it all at once,
and know everything will work fine right away, otherwise they will not have the confident to buy.

I know you had point out the price above,
but if you are targeting to sell this bracket to people who are willing to find their own parts in junk yards/from rebuild brand,
than most likely those people will be able to make their own bracket themselves.

another thing that might happened is,
since you expect people to source their parts from NON OEM rotors or even USED rotors,
or Pull out a $15 Junk Yard Caliper or a Rebuild Caliper,
there is a chance that this caliper/rotor combo might have Variance in their mounting,
Remember your bracket is modeled with your own used Caliper/Rotor combo,
there might be chance that the final fitting
might be off by just 1 mm or just 0.5mm and resulting in some uneven wear or some noise.
this make
people who is going to buy your bracket without the complete kit
will not be confidence enough that once they buy your bracket
and source their own parts, it will result in FLAWLESS fitment right away.
if turn out their rebuild caliper or NON OEM rotor do not fit perfectly, they might end up have to buy more and this will increase their budget.
but if you provide all the parts, they will feel comfortable knowing that if something is wrong, you will be willing
to replace the non fitting parts with perfect fitting parts.

basically you are selling just the bracket, and it is the responsibility of the people to make it work with their parts,
and if something is wrong, most likely it were caused by the variance in the used/non oem parts that they buy and
NOT because of your bracket, because your bracket were proven to work on your used rotor/caliper combo.
(your reference to calculate the bracket dimension)

I remember that in one of the thread here, a fitfreak member who sourced his caliper from Dave Z,
got 2 slightly different caliper eventhough it was for the same type car (perhaps different year of production),
resulting in one caliper that do not fit and had to be modified...

You canNOT guarantee that it will be FLAWLESS since the buyer is buying their own parts, right?

another point is,
as you can see,
I actually think that $300 for the bracket that you charge is a FAIR price,
considering the time, effort and your R&D / material cost
but there are already many comments from fitfreak member that $300 is too expensive...

and I am sure the member who think that $300 is too expensive are members who have the expertise to make their own bracket but at the same time also the type of member who will be willing and have the knowledge to source their own parts, be it from junk yard or from rebuild supplier.

trying to sell just bracket only means you are selling to members who have expertise in doing DIY, and again those member who have expertise in doing DIY will know how to make their own bracket.

so
that is why I think your bracket will have a much better chance to reach success if you sell it as a kit, that is ready to use.
so member who do not have technical expertise of making their own bracket will be interested to buy a complete kit from you.

unfortunately you do not have time for doing a complete kit, but of course I understand.

beside, if I were you, I would NOT want to sell anything even if it is just a bracket,
unless the buyer of the bracket willing to give me a written waiver that if they experience some brake failure,
they will not blame you for selling them the bracket.
so I think it will be important when you sell this bracket that you ask the buyer to give you a waiver
so if something happened to them, they will not file a lawsuit against you.

Don't get me wrong,
I am sure your steel bracket will be strong enough,
but if somehow there is failure from either the brake hose or the used caliper or the used rotor,
and it resulted in brake failure which might also tear off the bracket (not because of the bracket is weak,
but other parts of the brake hit the bracket), then there is possibility of lawsuit.
I think in the end you will be able to win the case and proving that your steel bracket is not the cause
but it will still cost you money from legal cost (lawyer) and time too.

I mean if people can sue Mc'Donalds for serving them with too hot Coffee that they accidentally spill themselves
(their own fault that the coffee spill)... you know people are desperate when it came to money
and usually want to blame other and even get compensation from others eventhough it is their own fault/mistake.

on the other hand, you also better make sure the machine shop that you use,
will used the correct material and correct method of machining,
because if turn out it's proven that your bracket had defect and cause accident,
you will be held responsible and liable for damage.

one thing I strongly suggest you to supply is the Bracket/Caliper Bolt,
just to make sure that the bolt is strong enough for this application.
if people bought wrong kind of bolt, and that bolt broke,
it will also create damage to the bracket which could be easily misunderstood as
the bracket not strong enough...
 

Last edited by BMW ALPINA; 05-02-2013 at 12:24 PM.

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