Originally Posted by Mister Coffee

Agreed.

It's a nuanced discussion. Nevertheless, a few points:

— Most men want to drive when they are driving. Most women want to eat and play with their phones while they are driving.

— I think it is unsafe to have "cars" the size of small houses on the road because all you can see in front of you is the back of the car/small house. Safe driving involves looking ahead.

— In the hands of someone who knows how to drive and is paying attention, maneuverability is safer than momentum.

— When women are sold a house-like "car," they are told: "Don't worry. It's just like driving a car." Only it's not at all like driving a car because it's a truck, not a car. And they do not bother to learn how to drive a truck.

— Men nowadays are not men. They are millennials and Gen Z. They've been feminized by the culture. Naturally, they want "cars" like women have, and they want to drive like women.

Originally Posted by Steve-o

Thank you. Mister Coffee's logic infers that all the drivers of Fits with automatics or CVTs are inferior to drivers of Fits with stick shifts because not having to shift by hand and foot means those drivers must be more interested in eating and playing with their phones than driving. Utter bulls#!+.

Originally Posted by mike410b

It quickly becomes muscle memory and requires no thought at all.

Originally Posted by mike410b

a sexist weirdo.

Originally Posted by Mister Coffee

That said, the 'Freakers here tend to be the exception to the rule. While we have some members who only care about economy and fuel milage, most 'Freaks really appreciate how the car performs. They are "car guys," and we all can understand that.

Originally Posted by mike410b

I don’t know how manual transmissions got this reputation for taking so much more focus and attention than an auto. It quickly becomes muscle memory and requires no thought at all.

Originally Posted by Mister Coffee

Not just sexist, Mike. My real gripe is with millennials and Gen-Z. Hate 'em with a passion.

That said, the 'Freakers here tend to be the exception to the rule. While we have some members who only care about economy and fuel milage, most 'Freaks really appreciate how the car performs. They are "car guys," and we all can understand that.

Originally Posted by Drew21

Who defines car performance? What if the performance I care most about is fuel economy, and I drive a Fit because it's a good balance of fuel efficiency, useful interior space, and I like the way it looks and drives?

Is that less "worthy" than if I wanted to get 200 hp out of my naturally-aspirated 2010 Fit, or if I said I wanted to turbo it and go for 300 hp, or if I said I wanted to build a custom suspension setup to lift it a foot off the ground or drop it to drag on the pavement?

What if I want to paint it pink and cover it with rainbow flowers? Can I still be a car guy?

Originally Posted by Steve-o

Still gotta shift a few times to get where you're going, right? And remember to push down the pedal when you stop? It may be muscle memory after a while but it's still more engagement than an automatic/CVT requires. And the idea of doing it certainly seems to throw the vast majority of the driving public. It if were no big thang there might be a bigger choice of manual transmissions around.

Originally Posted by Drew21

Who defines car performance? What if the performance I care most about is fuel economy, and I drive a Fit because it's a good balance of fuel efficiency, useful interior space, and I like the way it looks and drives?

Is that less "worthy" than if I wanted to get 200 hp out of my naturally-aspirated 2010 Fit, or if I said I wanted to turbo it and go for 300 hp, or if I said I wanted to build a custom suspension setup to lift it a foot off the ground or drop it to drag on the pavement?

What if I want to paint it pink and cover it with rainbow flowers? Can I still be a car guy?

Originally Posted by mike410b

Millennials and Gen Z were raised by Boomers and Gen X. Any beef you have them with them starts with your own cohort..