Hey all,

I am a new owner of a 2008 Fit Sport in 5 speed manual. Compared to other cars I have driven, the relatively limited torque this engine puts out seems to be only evident fairly high on the RPM tables that I’ve found - maxing at 105 ft-lbs at around 4,800 RPMs. For what I’ll call “spirited daily driving” in a hilly area where I live (central VA), I’m curious to hear how others approach a high revving engine like the Fit’s.

Other than when I’m moving from neutral to 1st off a stop, I’m currently trying to spend most of my time within the engine’s actual power band, which seems to be between 3,000 and 5,500 for 90%+ torque availability. That has meant I’m (academically if not always practically) shifting at:

• 1st -> 2nd: shift 5,500 RPMs, land 3,000 (big drop on this gear ratio)
• 2nd -> 3rd: shift 5,500, land around 4,000
• 3rd -> 4th: shift 5,500, land around 4,000
• 4th -> 5th: shift 5,500, land around 4,000 as well

And that means for downshift I’m generally ‘blipping’ the throttle to around 4,000 RPMs which seems to keep the car smooth.

I’m asking about this because most cars I have driven have more torque on the lower end of their RPM bands, which means I don’t normally ‘cruise’ at 3,000-4,000 RPMs; the result of living here seems to be a far more responsive throttle and no lugging on hills, but the car sounds fairly loud (but might just be a small car with limited noise damping) and there’s a small part of me that worries I’m overly stressing the engine, even if I let it warm up, keep good maintenance, and am not redlining it. If I’m just on a highway doing nothing or am driving economy mode, I’ll drop it into a more fuel efficient, lower ware mode and select a gear that keeps me close to 2,000-3,000.

Curious to hear what others experiences are around RPM tables/torque bands/shifting points for ’spirited driving’ on city streets at legal speeds? I haven’t found a lot of discussion about this specific to the Fit, which seems unique as an economy engine/car (for lack of a better descriptor, when compared to a ‘performance’ car) that is high revving and needs usable torque to really get moving (poor-ish power to weight ratio, especially after some of the horses have escaped since 2008!).

Best,
Chad

 

For the curious, here’s the data I’ve found on torque curves and gear ratios for this model. Open to corrections!
L15A · 109 hp @ 5,800 · 105 ft-lb @ 4,800 Ratios: 3.462 · 1.870 · 1.321 · 0.970 · 0.757

 

I guess it all depends on how you want to drive. You mention "spirited" several times, in which case you're going to have to rev up a 4-cyl economy car, and in so doing it will indeed be loud inside. Having said that, I'm a bit confused about your proposed shift patterns for daily driving. Surely by the time you hit 5500 rpm in 3rd gear you have reached or passed the speed limit, correct? What speed are you running when you shift from 4th to 5th at 5500 rpm and where are you doing this (legally)?

While I can't speak directly for the Fit as mine is an A/T, I did drive a 2007 Toyota Yaris 5-speed for five or six years. I'm pretty sure that car had a bit less power than my 2010 Fit, yet I rarely felt the need to access the rpm range you're referencing (in any gear) in daily driving in semi-hilly central/Finger Lakes NY where I lived at the time. Perhaps my spirit was weak and I was too concerned with fuel efficiency.

 

For every day driving I rarely exceed 3k in my GE8...that seems to net me the best MPG while still providing the ability to get up to speed relatively quickly. For highway merges etc sure I do push it into higher engine speeds but that's not often. I also autocross the car where I spend most of my time at or just below the rev limiter.

 

I am sure your spirit isn’t weak!!

I don’t have a hard and fast table but my sense of 5,500 RPM in different gears, on flat ground, basically takes this car to:

1. 25mph
2. 50mph
3. 60-70mph (Highway speeds)
4. 80-90mph (Overtaking)
5. theoretically top speed, never hit 5,500 in 5th! I value my life and the lives of others.

Though the wheel torque is fairly low in 4th and 5th compared to lower gears so if you’re on a hill then drop the mph a bit per.

 

Im with RJinVA and shift at 3,000 for everyday driving. Least amount of engine noise and best MPG. But I do blow-out the engine (6-6500 rpms) once or twice a week, usually getting on the highway.

 

Fits are not high revving spirited driving cars.

Fits are made for economical driving.

Low revving everyday easy driving.

If you want a high revving spirited driving car, look at the Civic Si or the top of the Civic line type R.

The way you currently drive your Fit it's destined for the junk yard.

 

All Honda engines are made for high revving. In addition, some engines provide also usable low-mid range torque. Fit performace especially with manual transmission is close to hot hatch when utilizing the upper third of the rpm range.

 

Coming back to OP's question, I use whatever shifting points depending on situation and other traffic. In relaxed driving I often jump over gears after acceleration to go to around 1500 rpm for steady speed at (sub)-urban driving, and then when accelerating from junction or ramp to highway speed I often rev close to the 6700 rpm redline with full throttle.

 

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to share their insights! For those who are shifting at 3k RPMs on street driving, do you find the engine lugs? I made a quick table with the Fit’s gear ratios (RPM₂ = RPM₁ × (Ratio₂ ÷ Ratio₁, since final drive and tire size are constants) and ignoring the brutal drop from 1st to 2nd (which is mathematically impossible to avoid) it seems shifting around 3k keeps you in a range that means you cannot access more than ~40% of the engine’s available torque and HP.

I’m genuinely interested in the mechanical happenings behind this, so I’m curious if - for this engine, based on its design - economy shifting that lands around 3k (i.e., shifts around 4-4.5k) is the right balance of kind-to-engine (not lugging on the low side, not overly wearing it on the high side) and performance. So, basically living with the engine in that 3-4.5k range for economy driving, shifting down when you’d drop below 3k and shifting up when hitting 4.5k. Once the engine oil is warmed I am sure you could shift that range up, since VTEC crossover itself isn’t until… 5,200? I think.

Thanks all for engaging with me on this! I’m enjoying the perspectives and conversation.

 

Again, it all comes down to what you're trying to do and where you're trying to do it.

If you're pulling away from a stop on flat ground or generally driving in a flat area, you don't need full power to accelerate at a reasonable rate and you don't have to rev the engine high before shifting to avoid lugging.

Even "lugging the engine" requires some clarification. As above, if you're on flat ground and accelerating at a reasonable rate, it's fine for the RPMs to fall down to 2000 or below when you shift -- even the small Fit engine has plenty of torque to deal with that. What causes a problem is if you shift, the RPMs fall, and then you demand immediate full power.

Think of it this way: In an A/T Fit on flattish ground you can cruise all day (and for hundreds of thousands of miles over a decade or more) at or below 2000 rpm at 55 mph. It seems unlikely the car would be designed that way if it was detrimental to the engine.

In other words, I think your idea of the proper RPM range of 3000-4500 rpm for "economy driving" is biased way high. Again, from a design perspective you have to imagine the engine + transmission combo in an economy-minded car like a Honda Fit is designed to deliver that economy in top gear (A/T or M/T) at highway speeds in the 55 - 65 mph range. That is not what you're doing. Out of curiosity, what sort of fuel efficiency have you been getting following your shift plan?

Obviously, if you're driving in a hilly area, or feel like you have to keep up with all the speeders with their V8 SUVs and trucks (in a previous post you mentioned 80-90 mph as "overtaking speed," but outside of Texas I don't know where those speeds are anywhere close to legal), you're going to have to drive the car a little harder and those driving conditions will require a trade-off between lower RPMs for efficiency and higher RPMs to maintain speed on steeper roads.

Despite what one commenter above said, revving a Fit (within reason, I'm not talking about bouncing off the rev limiter for your entire drive) won't hurt it in any appreciable way or wear it out noticeably faster assuming you do proper maintenance, but it will make a lot more noise and be a lot less efficient than it could be. It all comes down to what your priorities and needs are: noise and a (tiny bit of) fury or smoothness and efficiency.

 

Drew, great points - especially on the throttle response needs. I think the fun I feel from the Fit is that it’s forgiving enough of an MT to absorb some mistakes, but it doesn’t have the power-to-weight ratio to absorb being in the wrong gear at the wrong time for the wrong purpose. I.e., I found myself in 3rd on a relatively steep hill when the cars in front of me suddenly went to a stop, and foot-to-the-floor on the gas pedal could barely get me moving; too little torque at the wheels, and that’s not an experience that I think I would have been punished for (as noticeably) in a more powerful car. So, I find it a fun exercise to think “how can I keep this car responsive given the situation” as I drive throughout the day, and I’ve mapped that experience mostly on to keeping the engine in a state where (once warmed up) the car is responsive in a way that feels fun and alive when asked, aka driving around between 3k-4k RPMs in 2nd and 3rd, but to your point that’s not relevant when cruising a highway, where that would be unnecessarily inefficient.

 

I'm not sure that I even understand the question.

"trying to spend most of my time within the engine’s actual power band, which seems to be between 3,000 and 5,500 for 90%+ torque availability" — That's sounds good to me. Do that. VTEC kicks in just above 3,000 rpm (I think). There is "the engine’s actual power band."

Your chart shows that peak torque is at 5,000 rpm and peak horsepower is at 5,800 rpm.

 

Hmm, I typically just shift when it feels like I need to shift. I dunno, it's a feeling.

 

The same way I drive my 2015 EX 6 speed.

 

Exactly. Revving the engine close to the redline and get the engine to the sweet range feels so good.