Positive attitude for the win!

 

Things the 70's and 80's gas prices ruined...
















May have gotten a little off topic there (sorry about that), but I just thought it was Necessary to express what was lost during that time period.

 

Easier said than done. Trust me on that.

While it's possible to offer a "stripper DX model" without A/C, radio and even manual windows (Civic DX has power windows/locks), the answer to your question is very easy. Safety. A lot's changed since the CR-X was last in production. More airbags, stronger metals, stronger crash structuring, etc. It's practically impossible to build the exact same car then, for today's consumer in today's market at a price that makes Honda a return profit. This car isn't a Lotus Elise (for reference, JDM FD2s also use epoxy over welding).

Rear doors don't add very much weight. Consider that the 07+ Civic Si Sedan only adds 22-25lbs to the 07+ Civic Si coupe's weight. Another example would be the new M3 coupe and sedan. I believe the weight difference is something like 44lbs, which, all things considered, is pretty negligable. You're also comparing late 80s stamped steel to 21st century aluminum and light-weight steel.

Multiple, thinner sheets are lighter than a singly heavy thick sheet, but they're not necessarily safer. Thicker sheets have density that multiple sheets may or may not have. Plus, that's an added manufacturing cost in materials and labor. Keep in mind, Honda's a very small company when compared to its rivals. But you're a smart person and obviously a genuine Honda enthusiast, so I'm not telling you stuff you don't already know. lol

Lightweight can be done. Toyota's MR-S was pretty brilliant in its design, using light, removable aluminum panels. That car also cost something like $25K-30K when new? There was very little interest in the recent $30,000 Mugen Civic Si sedan, let alone another smaller FWD Honda with less practicality at the same price, excluding the practically guaranteed mark-ups. What you're talking about is more or less a small RWD CR-X-based Acura product theoretically, not a Honda, which as an Acura, COULD possibly work. However, Honda's still a business and businesses need to make money in order to spend money developing newer products. This would be why the NSX didn't get the attention from Honda it should've. Ridiculous $30K dealer mark-ups over the $60K MSRP for a Japanese car didn't bring many folks to the dealership. In turn Honda couldn't put much if any profit back into maintaining the car, and eventually it was forgotten.

The last thing I want is an overpriced CR-X becoming "forgotten". That said:

I agree with you 100%. I don't doubt that the CR-X will return. But I also don't think it'll be the hybrid everyone thinks it will be (Honda's not entirely sold on the idea for the US, I read on vtec.net). We're more likely to see a small-gasoline powered car roughly the same size as the Fit, although slightly (and I do mean, slightly) lighter probably engineered to maximize fuel efficiency, like the old HF's. It'll probably be sporty, but it won't be fast, that's for sure. But isn't that the fun of slow cars? Where everyone else is braking, you're "flying" through the braking zone with your foot to the floor because the dayum thing doesn't make any power anyway? That to me is far more engaging than stoplight-to-stoplight speed.

In light of the Toyota Yaris liftback (which outsells the sedan, IIRC), Hyundai Accent 3-door (don't sleep on Hyundai, but ESPECIALLY don't sleep on Kia) and Ford possibly contemplating bringing the 3-door Verve hatch to the states, there's a huge potential for Honda to scoop up buyers who're interested in down-sizing or first time buyers who a) don't necessarily need the maximum practicality of the Fit but still want a bit of utility that a hatch can provide and b) won't buy the Fit because it looks like a mini-minivan. I think a CR-X is the vehicle that can cater to that market, not to mention the thousands and thousands and possibly hundreds of thousands of people all over the world who've owned CR-Xs over the years and would jump in a heartbeat at the opportunity to buy a brand new CR-X that had the same soul as their old car at an affordable price, even as a second vehicle in this sh*tty state of the market.

Build it and they will come.

 

Not really off-topic. Without the 70s and 80s we wouldn't have cars like:








And last, but most certainly not least:

 

1st off, I want to say the comment here are GREAT! Well thought out, and very informative to say the least. Which brings me to my next point: IF there is a new version of the CRX do you all have the same fear that i do -The car will not represent the original in a proper manor-?

Honestly there is a huge following for the CR-X, and the car was way ahead of its time (*in a behind it's time sort of way) but do you all feel that a new CRX would be a watered down marketing ploy more than anything? -because that is my first thought.-

I would love to see a new CR-X, but I am not sure we will see a justified version. Though I agree the Fit is fun to drive, a modern-day CR-X it is not.

* (in a behind it's time sort of way) -meaning the basis of the CRX being your basic econo-box that has a bit of added muscle and an upgraded suspension coupled with a relatively perfect wheelbase for sport driving and "fun to drive factor". The reason i say this is it reminds me of the marketing ploys that have been going on for years in the US. Muscle cars, Domestic Exotics (ie: Shelby tuned vehicles) The manufacturers take a direction from the marketing sales and polls to make a youth oriented sporty -but still practical- car to cover the 18-24y.o. male demographic, often creating a whole new car from relatively scratch.

 

RDS- though i see your point, and respect where you are going with it I still have to ask:

What would your response be if I asked you what you would rather take for a spin? 1970 Chevelle SS 454 or a 1974 VW Golf MkI?

 

I'd take the MkI out for a spin, come back and buy the Chevelle...

...sheeeee*t, you thank I'm crazy? lol

 

I rest my case.

 

Actually, I do have faith.

Well, Honda's first car for US consumption, the N600 didn't do so well with it's tiny engine and tiny proportions because it came out in the late 60s, early 70s. This, of course, was the muscle car era, and cars during this period were HUUUUUUUUUGE. But the Civic was released in 72, a year before the world energy crisis and all the then-new emissions laws (this is the introduction to cat converters) which made the cars more expensive. It's sort of reoccuring, where there's tighter emissions and mileage regulations and the concept of the hybrid vehicle is driving some new cars out of the affordability realm for some people (monthly payments, insurance, fuel, maintaining the battery, etc). Cars are getting larger, they're getting heavier and they're not necessarily getting more efficient than what some of the Japanese cars were before all the rules and things. Again, I argue that the hybrid craze is really more or less just a fad. Toyota's got the entire world fooled into thinking the Prius is a big solution to everyone's problems, but like I said, the price of fuel hasn't gone down. So if you pay $50 to fill your tank, a hybrid isn't going to make gas cheaper. It MIGHT (if you live in the city) extend the time between when you pay $50 for your tank and when you pay $55 a tank. I hear the news people talk about how much money you can save with a hybrid, but what these idiots aren't telling people is, hybrids aren't of much benefit in this kind of economy. Hybrids only save you money if you're paying the exact same amount of money for fuel every tank over a period of time. But we all know the price of gas is increasing steadily, so the actual amount of money you "save" isn't as large as people want you to think.

Which is why I'm against hybrids in the first place. What we need is alternative fuel. Period. Even if alternative fuels initally cost more, as the technology expands, prices go down. That's common sense. Or it SHOULD be common sense, but the government has no real interest in it, so it's pretty much up to the car companies to create and support these solutions.

This is a large reason why I don't think the CR-X should be a hybrid or will be a hybrid. If it's possible to get the same mileage or better out of a gasoline-only car as a hybrid, the benefits outweigh anything else. The car has a lower inital cost, a lower operating cost over the course of its life (given the added complexity of the electrical system), and lower insurance premiums since it's typically cheaper to insure a cheap car over a more expensive car (I'm probably forgetting something). It's by no-means a solution to the problem, but it is a viable, inexpensive alternative with the potential greater returns for the manufacturer if the right car exists and the right marketing is used to push it. I could compare the return of the CR-X to the original Honda CVCC, which met emissions standards AND had the lowest fuel consumption of ANY vehicle sold in America for 4 years. If there's any company that recognizes the similar potential, Honda is it. And if there's any car that could be all of these things, the CR-X is it. Being it's a Honda--who's known for injecting even the dinkiest car with a sporting soul--is just a bonus.

So I think that if the same mentality and forward thinking that was used then--I think it had to be more than coincidence--I don't think it would be watered down. But the marketing needs that push as well to let people know these things are all available. There's already a market for it, but it will continue to grow as more people are unfortunately forced to choose between spending money on fuel to get to and from work and buying groceries. It's a sad reality, but it's a possible win-win situation. What would kill it though IS watered down marketing.

If the team behind it is passionate enough, I think it could be a great car and hopefully the public will think that too. considering the original CR-Xs could get 45-50mpg before hybrid technology was implemented in cars. Simplicity and smart design is the key. The Fit illustrates that Honda definitely has both of these trump cards in spades .

Quote:

* (in a behind it's time sort of way) -meaning the basis of the CRX being your basic econo-box that has a bit of added muscle and an upgraded suspension coupled with a relatively perfect wheelbase for sport driving and "fun to drive factor". The reason i say this is it reminds me of the marketing ploys that have been going on for years in the US. Muscle cars, Domestic Exotics (ie: Shelby tuned vehicles) The manufacturers take a direction from the marketing sales and polls to make a youth oriented sporty -but still practical- car to cover the 18-24y.o. male demographic, often creating a whole new car from relatively scratch.

Speaking of Shelby, there's a replica 427 Cobra that passes my house everyday. I want so bad to go out and ask for a drive. lol

EDIT: For incomplete thought. Sorry if there are errors. It's too long and I'm too lazy to proofread. lol

 

By alternative fuels, I also meant fuels like hydrogen specifically. This is a great alternative for not only cars, but to heat homes because where i used to live, there were/are a lot of families who won't be able to afford the cost of gas to keep their homes warm next winter in the snow belt. It gets COLD. I know it's not a "right-now" fix, but if the price of a Bluetooth player can drop to $200-400 from $700-$1000 in just a few years, things like hydrogen home energy stations and the like can also become affordable eventually. The job market isn't that strong right now since the economy isnt super strong, but eventually it'll go back up people should be able to afford this stuff.

 

Holy crap, I talk to much. lol

 

It happens. You are just waiting for someone to agree with your post so you can settle it in your mind. Though i agree with you, I will never tell you that because i enjoy watching you spiral downward toward the eternal state of un-rest that you are bound for if you continue to respond to this thread.

 

Really? I honestly just thought I talked too much. lol

But beyond that, it is actually important for people to see this stuff and talk about it. Why it's important, I'm not at liberty to share right now

EDIT: Shall continue my downward spiral after a brief intermission.

 

Agreed on all points, though I tune my gutless little L15 anyway. Not sure why sometimes.

CR-Z would be a hot follow- up and would have my attention.

 

I actually disagree with his view on the all-motor potential of the L15.

Two words: Honda modularity.

 

Well, one thing to remember is that Honda did do a complete makeover of the CRX already, of course. The second gen was very much different from the first, with both positive and negative results. The first gen had much more of a go-kart feel, and was lighter. The second gen had more space, more hp, and was a step up in quality of materials. Having a 90, I'm obviously biased, but I guess my point is that Honda already has shown that it can take the original and improve it, so it's possible. Now, taking that CRX and updating it to the next century with all of its requirements is a much bigger step, and I'm not too confident that it can be done while still having the first or second gen's connection to the road.

The Fit, imho, is only a spiritual successor to the CRX because it's a practical hatch that is priced well. To me, that's where the comparison stops. Granted, with enough mods, it can be a competitive car, but out of the box, they're not in the same league, and the CRX was a much better base to start from.

I'm taking my CRX out of storage tomorrow, and can't wait to start it up again. Like one of the other posters said, I've got a feeling that I'll be keeping this car until I die. Not sure about being buried in it, though!

 

LOL! I have been accused of that crime quite a bit!

RDS, keep going! You are absolutely correct. We need to keep talking about it. There is so many good points being brought up.

You guys are right about new CRX in the future! It will never be a go-cart like the old one due to safety regulations, but it does not mean that it can't be small, light and nimble on today's standards! RDS is right. Just look at the Fit even with a joke of an engine! It can be done just a bit lighter than a Fit. Again RDS you are right about cost of stuffing a 200hp K-series engine in it (I still reserve my right to dream!). Fine, they can put Civics 135hp engine as in my EX sedan (honestly that engine would have much better MPG in a Fit than L15!-my EX beats Fit's MPG!). Let us enthusiasts do engine swaps! I know it is a pain in the butt, but if that helps bring a decent new generation CRX to life I am all for it! It will also allow aftermarket industry grow.
Honestly I am a believer in cooperation between major manufacturers and aftermarket tuning companies. Why not if it brings profit to both and keeps emissions clean?!

I agree with you on hybrids! Total waste of money! I can't wait for all these Priuses to go for a battery replacements! It will be so amusing reading their bickering about the bill they receive! What savings for Christ sake when you get hit with $5K-8K battery bill! And all these celebrities promoting it for their own egos and publicity. LOL! Did anybody hear about the battery plant in Canada where nothing grows around it for miles?! Crap it sends all over the area during production and it is equipped with all mandatory filters and follows government regulations!
That tels you that money talks and BS walks! When it comes to money everything can be bought for a price.

We definitely need new fuels to advance enough to be competitive with gasoline. Unfortunately gasoline advanced to a point where it has so much potential energy value per volume that nothing comes close. Even hydrogen costs so much to manufacture and they did not even start calculating what it will cost to upgrade gas stations with proper equipment to distribute it. Natural gas/propane is very clean burning, but again not even close to gasoline in bang for the buck. Fortunately pollution in the big cities is forcing it's use. Buses in metropolitan areas all over US and Europe are using it. Ever taken a cab ride in Las Vegas? ALL cabs are running on natural gas there! Due to pollution many big cities in Europe charge high fees for entering city centers with gasoline cars. London I believe takes 8-10 British pounds - that is over $16 per day! British government partially funds individuals that convert their cars to use propane. They do it as dual fuel vehicles. In the city they use propane then flip a switch to go back to gasoline or diesel. One FF member from UK actually posted a thread while back about his conversion.
I would love to install propane kit on my cars and did some research about it. Unfortunately US government does not permit "kits" of any kind from 3rd parties for safety reasons. Only car manufacturer kits are allowed! I guess politicians get so much funding for their re-elections from oil companies to bother developing a standard and regulations for propane! Sad, very sad!
Speaking of diesel, currently that is the fuel of presence and immediate future. Diesel technology advanced so much! They are much quieter, do not throw black smoke, do not stink any more, mpg efficiency increased even more than before. Look at VW Golf's and Jetta's in US (in states that permit it's sales!). They do 45-55 mpg and have 600+miles range!
Honda has diesel Civic and Accord (Acura TSX) in Europe. Jalopnik got an opportunity to test Civic in US. Car was listing 41/56 mpg, but they did some hipermiling and got 72mpg!!!!
Jalopnik: Obsessed With The Cult Of Cars

Reason diesel has the highest chance of succeeding at the moment is the fact that fuel is still oil based to keep oil companies at bay, politicians on retainer and engine technology is here, NOW!
Wait a few moths until diesel BMW X5 & 335D, various Mercedeses, Audi Q7, VW's start selling 50 state wide thanks to BLUETEC technology! Mark my words: many bitch now, but within a year all will be praising diesel in US! Mercedes really revolutionized Diesel technology with Bluetec invention. Basically it consist of a separate small plastic tank (like for windshield washer fluid) that injects "urea" directly in the catalytic converter under heavy load or as determined by sensors. It cuts down on emissions drastically! Mercedes and VW are even experimenting with exhaust particulate filter technology!
BTW, how many of you drove a diesel sedan or compact car?
Torque is intoxicating! If you get an opportunity to test drive it, do it! Then you will understand what I am talking about!

There RDS, now you do not talk to much anymore! LOL!

Ivan

 

You're right. You DO talk too much! j/k

It's actually a very good post. I do not agree with diesel being the answer in any way though. propane or hydrogen is the way to go IMHO.

p.s. I like your point on the engine swaps too. It reminds me- there was an article a while back that too a Pontiac 455 big block and rebuilt it with modern internals and fuel injection. Rant the car on PCM controlled parameters and ended up getting almost 500hp and 540lb/ft of tq while achieving almost 24mpg. figure that one out.

 

That much for hybrid superiority! Long live diesel!

2008 Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid vs. 2008 Mercedes-Benz GL320 CDI Comparison Test on Inside Line

 

See that just proves that "if there is a will (financial gain!), they will find a way"!
I do not think that diesel is the ultimate long term solution. It clearly isn't!
I am just saying that at the present and immediate future it is the only logical solution under the political and technological circumstances.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT OF ELECTRIC CARS, HYDROGEN, NATURAL GAS,..... EVEN SOLAR TECHNOLOGY SHOULD CEASE!
For practicality of daily use, long distance driving as well as continuous research, I would love to have a diesel vehicle with another alternative propulsion method. Imagine diesel Fit that could switch diesel engine from driving a transmission to just charging a very small, but advanced battery pack in the spare tire space that could send current to a 4 electric wheel hub motors!
Technology is available since before 2005!
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution MIEV