With the way gasoline prices have gotten so high world wide, I wonder when cars will be running alternate fuels, like ethanol? Ethanol is made from corn, and can be used as fuel for a regular car and also as a race fuel. I read an interesting article on www.competitionplus.com (see Mark Thomas: Ethanol Racer) about using ethanol. I've often wondered why we don't convert our vehicles to ethanol. Cleaner burning, less pollution, more power than gasoline, etc. Any comments?

 

Ethanol is alot harder on the engine and its components in much the same way as natural gas - LPG is. Some components need to be changed / upgraded to support it but its not a mamoth task. You get reduced milage with LPG and ethanol and less.

They started putting some ethanol in regular petrol in Australia to bring the cost per litre down but some vehicles were quite adversely effected by it. Most service stations / gas stations now promote NO Ethenol as a consequence.

It has been argued that up to 20% ethanol in the mixture will not adversely effect most vehicles.

Ethanol is produced as a byproduct of cane sugar here and hence is a renewable resource.

A few large multinational oil companies make a lot of money from the current situation. It is in their interest for there to be no alternatives, to stiffle development of hybrid vehicles and new more fuel efficient engines such as the Orbital engine. The world goes to war time and time again over oil!

 

Here in Brazil we have regular Ethanol use in cars. The new Injections here are Called Flex Fuel and thay accept any graduation of Ethanol with Gasoline, Only Gasoline or Only Ethanol. It is a very good fuel since it generates more power, is more clean, have a lower tempeture of combustion and is more resistant than the Gas. Some cars here in Brazil runs if a 17.5 Compression Ration and 100% Ethanol.

Here, all Gasoline by Law, must have a minimum of 26% of Ethanol.

 

Speaking of alternative fuels, I am in the LPG business. We've had LP driven trucks. The one big problem we have always had is no one around our area has any idea how to work on and tune calibration for LP engines, so we've been forced to drive over an hour and a half to get to a place who knows what they're doing.

Other than that, LP is exeptionally clean. Engines using LP gas are only required to change oil every 15,000 miles or so, due to extremely clean combustion, but like said above, as far as I know it's harder on other engine components. We've had over 200k miles on our trucks, but lp need a spark of 1,080º - 1,180º to have combustion. as far as I know LP is harder on seels and whatnot.

The biggest downside is lack of filling stations and the fact that any ol' Joe Schmo should not be using a liquid transfer facility to gas up. Really one needs to be trained (not technically certified) in lp filling stations. Freeze burn isn't fun (neither is over-filling a tank).

 

i saw a story on accurent affair about ethonal in petrol in australia, the legal limit for ethonal in petrol in aus is 10%, ethonal petrol prices are cheaper then unleaded up to 6c per L. This would be a big saving, but i was wondering would using ethonal petrol with 10% ethonal damage the jazz's engine?

 

Reason its cheaper in Australia as its not subject to the same taxes. Manufacture cost is actually more than the true manufacturing cost of petrol in Australia but the petrol price is set to the world price (which is a lot higher) not production cost.

The reason a heap of service stations in Australia have huge signs saying NO Ethonal is because of alledged damage done to cars running it mixed with unleaded in Australia in the recent past.

Running ethonol in excess of 10% will void your new cars warranty with pretty much everyone in Australia.

Its claimed 20% is still a safe level by alot of ethonal advocates. Policing of mix levels is near on impossible so it has been deemed safer by the majority of people to just purchase pertol free of ethonal.

 

Reading your post reminded me that cars everywhere now run unleaded gasoline. I'm so used to it here that it never hit me that other countries do the same thing. Duh! One problem we have is that there are different types of unleaded. The gasoline we get here in Phoenix is a special blend used for hi-pollution cities. If you buy gas in northern Arizona, which is high altitude, it's a different blend. If you buy gas in California, it's also a different blend because of California strict pollution laws. So we end up with a gazillion types of unleaded, which of course is a royal pain in the patooies to the refineries, and can bite us in the butt as well. We had a pipe line break 2 years ago that affected the Phoenix area and it was a zoo! Had to wait in line to get gas when you could find it, etc etc. Yet, no problem with finding gas in areas outside of Phoenix. The problem was the type of unleaded they sell here. You wonder why the US doesn't simply say, OK, let all the gas be the same formula and be done with it. This might come to pass due to the recent storms in Louisiana and Texas, but I'm not holding my breath! heh

 

Hello everybody.

My name is Benjamin Turner. For the past six months or so I've been researching and working on creating a website where we can put all our minds together. I've managed to produce ethanol with nothing more than a barrel and a copper still. I imported some industrial strength enzymes for the conversion of grain and used them to convert corn into sugar. I've documented the whole process at:

http://www.theEthanolSource.com/libr...AllCalculators

This link includes a broad overview and JavaScript calculators that will tell you yield from Rice, Corn, Wheat, Sorghum and pure sugar. Calculators also give exact dosages for yeast, enzymes and when and how to use them. One final calculator calculates the amount of zeolite needed to achieve anhydrous ethanol. I've created the process and plan to document my processor in the following months.

In my catalog you can purchase zeolite and industrial enzymes (including cellulase, xylanase, glucanase, alpha-amylase and glucoamylase) for the production of fuel ethanol. You can also find large quantities of turbo yeast for fermentation:

http://www.theEthanolSource.com/catalog

In the library I have a wiki set up with a few categories already filled in. I was hoping you all could help. With the ingenuity and large agricultural background of the U.S., we should be able to free ourselves from foreign oil reliance. I think that ethanol, biodiesel and biomass are the keys to the doors.

In the following months I plan on converting my 2006 Acura RSX to run a higher ethanol blend. Lets hope that project comes out as good as this one has.

I hope you enjoy my site.

Regards,

Benjamin Turner
bplturner@gmail.com
Store Owner: http://www.theEthanolSource.com

 

You can buy flex fuel vehicles now, but not from Honda. Ethanol would create it's own supply problems. Even now gas prices are high because of many factors. One of them being the replacement of MTBE in gas mixes with ethanol as an octane booster. The ethanol is more corrosive and can't be sent through pipelines and hauling ethanol to mixing stations is causing gas supply problems in parts of the country. Ethanol is in short supply now. It is renewable but a large demand for it will increase production and cause other problems. It could be that using grain to make ethanol could cause cereal and bread prices to go up. Even beef and pork and chicken prices could go up from higher feed costs. Farmers would make more money as demand for their products would increase. Or they would just stay in business because more sales would offset more fuel costs. It is a wicked circle. It does burn cleaner which is good.

 

Honda says they'll be offering a vehicle in 2008 that can run on any blend of ethanol up to 100%. Ethanol is only hardly more corrosive than gasoline if anhydrated. The carboxyl group on the alcohol causes ethanol to be mildly acidic. However, when ethanol is stored with water, formic acid is formed. This is the largest problem associated with its corrosiveness. Most of the U.S. corn and other feedstocks are currently exported to other countries, to be sold as feed. Switchgrass and cellulosic enzymatic methods (such as production from wood, paper, and wheat straw) are going to revolutionize ethanol production. If gas prices stay as high as they are (and I don't see them going down), I believe there will be a small revolution in fuel production.

 

Actually, I think once new technologies to produce ethanol from cellulose sources come online in the next few years, I can see gasoline going to as much as 40% ethanol (E40 fuel) for newer vehicles, with 10% ethanol (E10) formulations available for older vehicles. E85 has a big problem, namely much lower fuel economy compared to regular gasoline engines even with the engine optimized for E85 combustion.

 

My fear is that the "corn industry" (note: NOT farmers) will become as big as the oil industry. In the US, the corn lobby is already huge. Corn is so big here because we use High Fructose Corn Syrup in everything from bread to bubble gum. Wanna bet some oil execs will start moving over to the food industry?

Not trying to sound conspiratorial, just worried that the US will move towards ethanol only to find the prices are no different than with oil.

 

Well, Corn has fewer "fixed supply" issues, at least in the long term (where it has essentially none), and so the "fear and greed" factor in the commodities trading won't be quite so severe as it is with oil.

I mean, the oil companies aren't really even to blame for current prices, it's all the commodities traders who have bid crude futures sky-high (I suppose I should blame myself, because I own and profit from several oil-related stocks and securities).

 

My Honda Canada manual says I can burn 10% Ethanol but my salesman
said not to use it, something about clogging the injectors. Our Provincial
Gov't. is going to mandate all stations sell 10% Gasohol soon.

Here is a site for the U.S. Ethanol industry. Heard some news the tariff on
it may be reduced for off-shore suppliers like Brazil.

http://www.ethanol.org/

 

I've been using 10% ethanol for almost a 1/2 a tank now but have not seen any adverse affect yet (and why should I). If your owners manual says its ok and your injectors clog It's covered by your warranty. The only fuel I can buy is 10% anyway so I couldn't switch if I wanted to.

 

Ethanol does NOT provide more power than gasoline.

BTU's/US gallon

gasoline: 125,000
ethanol: 84,400
gasohol: 120,900

Gasohol is 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline

Interesting link:

http://www.taemag.com/issues/article...cle_detail.asp

 

[quote=Clear Lake Fit]Ethanol does NOT provide more power than gasoline.

BTU's/US gallon

gasoline: 125,000
ethanol: 84,400
gasohol: 120,900

It is cleaner burning, less polluting and uses, in Manitoba, straw from wheat that some farmer's burn in the fall.

 

Huh?

Here in the USA most gasoline is being switched to E10 fuel and I haven't heard any significant complaints about such fuel. I drive a 1998 Honda Civic HX CVT coupé fuelled with E10 and I don't see any adverse effects on the engine in any way.

 

[quote=willmax11]The first poster, giguy, mentions ethanol has more power.

The 3rd poster says the same.

Sure no one said gasohol has more power but if you "dilute" gasoline down with 10% ethanol you lower the BTU's available.

 

E85 is only about 80% as efficient as gasoline.

Its subsidieds by the feds. so the price is lower.
its not a perfect answer to high gas prices but its part of the
solution.