Cash for Clunkers means Possible New Fit Owner?
#21
07-15-2009, 10:33 PM
Guys...don't panic. They are NOT going to run out of 1 BILLION dollars by November 1st when the program ends. Did anyone ever do the math and figure out just how many cars they'd have to absorb at $4,500 a crack to get to a BILLION dollars? More than 222,000 cars! And remember, the car being traded in has a host of qualifying requirements - owned and insured for a consecutive year, a combined mileage rating of 18mpg or less, AND worth less than $4,500 (otherwise why would you take less for it than it's worth?). I wouldn't worry about the funding for the program running out by November 1st with all these variables considered.
Warner
PS - I am waiting for the program to kick in on the 23rd myself.....and have been following it very closely.
Warner
PS - I am waiting for the program to kick in on the 23rd myself.....and have been following it very closely.
#22
07-16-2009, 12:01 AM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 1,448
Guys...don't panic. They are NOT going to run out of 1 BILLION dollars by November 1st when the program ends. Did anyone ever do the math and figure out just how many cars they'd have to absorb at $4,500 a crack to get to a BILLION dollars? More than 222,000 cars! And remember, the car being traded in has a host of qualifying requirements - owned and insured for a consecutive year, a combined mileage rating of 18mpg or less, AND worth less than $4,500 (otherwise why would you take less for it than it's worth?). I wouldn't worry about the funding for the program running out by November 1st with all these variables considered.
Warner
PS - I am waiting for the program to kick in on the 23rd myself.....and have been following it very closely.
Warner
PS - I am waiting for the program to kick in on the 23rd myself.....and have been following it very closely.
Originally, they wanted $4 billion for a 2-year program:
The House-Senate conference report containing $1 billion for the program -- only about one-quarter of what was originally envisioned -- is expected to be voted on in the Senate today. Providing funding through the end of the current fiscal year
on Sept. 30, the program could result in about 250,000 better-mileage cars being put on the road and helping spur car sales.The House had already voted in support of a bigger, two-year program worth $4 billion but did not appropriate the financing, meaning, at least to begin, the program will be more modest.
House passes cash-for-clunkers legislation | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press
#23
07-16-2009, 07:53 AM
Guys...don't panic. They are NOT going to run out of 1 BILLION dollars by November 1st when the program ends. Did anyone ever do the math and figure out just how many cars they'd have to absorb at $4,500 a crack to get to a BILLION dollars? More than 222,000 cars! And remember, the car being traded in has a host of qualifying requirements - owned and insured for a consecutive year, a combined mileage rating of 18mpg or less, AND worth less than $4,500 (otherwise why would you take less for it than it's worth?). I wouldn't worry about the funding for the program running out by November 1st with all these variables considered.
Warner
Haven't been around politicians and politics much, have you.
There's a reason so many dealers are lining up trades using the cash for clunkers. They know how quickly it can dissappear.
For a track record follow the thefts from Social Security (and why they don't have normal citizens SS or Medicare or ...) Medicare, Highway Fund, etc; they continually shifted funds to the general ledger to pay for other stuff. That means you will really pay for your REQUIRED retirement funds.
PS - I am waiting for the program to kick in on the 23rd myself.....and have been following it very closely.
Warner
Haven't been around politicians and politics much, have you.
There's a reason so many dealers are lining up trades using the cash for clunkers. They know how quickly it can dissappear.
For a track record follow the thefts from Social Security (and why they don't have normal citizens SS or Medicare or ...) Medicare, Highway Fund, etc; they continually shifted funds to the general ledger to pay for other stuff. That means you will really pay for your REQUIRED retirement funds.
PS - I am waiting for the program to kick in on the 23rd myself.....and have been following it very closely.
#24
07-16-2009, 08:04 AM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 1,448
And they don't mention in the information I have seen how much of the allotment will HAVE to go to running the program. Someone has to do the paperwork. Something has to be set up to generate the money to the dealers, we just don't have enough genies or fairy princesses with magic wands to magically administer this CARS program.
Believe me, the people administering the program will get paid too.
Believe me, the people administering the program will get paid too.
#25
07-16-2009, 08:19 AM
And they don't mention in the information I have seen how much of the allotment will HAVE to go to running the program. Someone has to do the paperwork. Something has to be set up to generate the money to the dealers, we just don't have enough genies or fairy princesses with magic wands to magically administer this CARS program.
Believe me, the people administering the program will get paid too.
Believe me, the people administering the program will get paid too.
That's an excellent point. And to the other poster, yes I HAVE actually been "around politics" so I'm not naive about how it all can work. I'm just betting that there aren't THAT many cars that:
1 - People want to trade in on a new vehicle
2 - Get 18 mpg or less combined
3 - Are worth less than $4,500
Maybe I'm wrong.....and HOPE that I am. This could be a good program for the ailing auto industry and all the industries that support it. I am in line though (so much so that my trade in vehicle is already parked at the dealer's lot).
Warner
#26
07-16-2009, 09:18 AM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 1,448
That's an excellent point. And to the other poster, yes I HAVE actually been "around politics" so I'm not naive about how it all can work. I'm just betting that there aren't THAT many cars that:
1 - People want to trade in on a new vehicle
2 - Get 18 mpg or less combined
3 - Are worth less than $4,500
Maybe I'm wrong.....and HOPE that I am. This could be a good program for the ailing auto industry and all the industries that support it. I am in line though (so much so that my trade in vehicle is already parked at the dealer's lot).
Warner
1 - People want to trade in on a new vehicle
2 - Get 18 mpg or less combined
3 - Are worth less than $4,500
Maybe I'm wrong.....and HOPE that I am. This could be a good program for the ailing auto industry and all the industries that support it. I am in line though (so much so that my trade in vehicle is already parked at the dealer's lot).
Warner
Here’s a high-end cost calculation for a national program. Suppose we took two million cars off the road a year, at an average purchase price of $3,500 (the top price in the Texas program today). Including all the administrative costs of running the program, that would probably cost about $8 billion. Compared with other nationwide income-transfer or environmental policies, that’s a pretty small bill. For stimulus purposes, it would, of course, be better to run the program on a larger scale, if possible. There are over 250 million cars and light trucks on American roads, and some 30 percent are 15 years old or older. That’s at least 75 million clunkers. At five million cars a year — an ambitious target, to be sure — the program would cost less than $20 billion, still cheap compared with the $168 billion stimulus enacted in February.
Source/whole article here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/27/business/27view.html
Emphasis:
There are over 250 million cars and light trucks on American roads, and some 30 percent are 15 years old or older. That’s at least 75 million clunkers.
#27
07-16-2009, 09:24 AM
Check out this older article from last year, with estimates:
Here’s a high-end cost calculation for a national program. Suppose we took two million cars off the road a year, at an average purchase price of $3,500 (the top price in the Texas program today). Including all the administrative costs of running the program, that would probably cost about $8 billion. Compared with other nationwide income-transfer or environmental policies, that’s a pretty small bill. For stimulus purposes, it would, of course, be better to run the program on a larger scale, if possible. There are over 250 million cars and light trucks on American roads, and some 30 percent are 15 years old or older. That’s at least 75 million clunkers. At five million cars a year — an ambitious target, to be sure — the program would cost less than $20 billion, still cheap compared with the $168 billion stimulus enacted in February.
Source/whole article here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/27/business/27view.html
Emphasis:
There are over 250 million cars and light trucks on American roads, and some 30 percent are 15 years old or older. That’s at least 75 million clunkers.
Here’s a high-end cost calculation for a national program. Suppose we took two million cars off the road a year, at an average purchase price of $3,500 (the top price in the Texas program today). Including all the administrative costs of running the program, that would probably cost about $8 billion. Compared with other nationwide income-transfer or environmental policies, that’s a pretty small bill. For stimulus purposes, it would, of course, be better to run the program on a larger scale, if possible. There are over 250 million cars and light trucks on American roads, and some 30 percent are 15 years old or older. That’s at least 75 million clunkers. At five million cars a year — an ambitious target, to be sure — the program would cost less than $20 billion, still cheap compared with the $168 billion stimulus enacted in February.
Source/whole article here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/27/business/27view.html
Emphasis:
There are over 250 million cars and light trucks on American roads, and some 30 percent are 15 years old or older. That’s at least 75 million clunkers.
Warner
Last edited by warner; 07-16-2009 at 10:17 AM. Reason: typos
#28
07-16-2009, 10:14 AM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 1,448
Hyundai believes that they will garner 10% of their sales from the CARS program for the month of July:
After just one week of accepting Cash-for-Clunkers trade-ins, Hyundai has revealed that these deals added up to 7 percent of its overall sales and could reach 10 percent by month's end
Source:
Cash-for-Clunkers trade-ins account for 7 percent of Hyundai sales in first week
And last month's sales were low, down 24%, to 37,943:
MarketWatch.com Story
and
Sales Releases - 07/01/2009
Along with the study they did about number of people holding back on buying while waiting for the program to start (11%):
Hyundai decided to offer its own CARS program during the interim period after a May study revealed 11 percent of buyers were holding back on a new vehicle purchase until a scrappage plan was put into place. “We appreciate what Washington has done getting the program completed, but it’s clear that the wait has left many potential car-buyers on the sidelines,” said John Krafcik, president and CEO, Hyundai Motor America. “We thought it was imperative to get funding to our dealers so that they could implement the program right away and satisfy the demand they’ve been hearing from consumers.”
Source:
Hyundai kicks off ‘cash for clunkers’ three weeks early
That's just Hyundai. What about Honda? Take a look at the U.S. sales figures for the month of June and year to date for Honda, here:
American Honda Reports June Sales - Honda - Press Releases - Selected Story
Honda, June: 92,120
Year to date: 479,696
We'll have all of August, September and October. Three full months. Plus the last week of July. Plus whatever Hyundai (and various promotions from other makers) has already taken in.
Honda by itself could use up the CARS program. LOL! But they aren't the only ones in the game. Toyota. Nissan. Mazda. Scion. VW. Ford. Those are in the recommended cars:
Cash for clunkers: Recommended cars that qualify for a voucher: Consumer Reports Cars Blog
People won't buy just the recommended cars though. There will be Chevy Aveos and Smarts and all sorts of other cars sold.
I'm not saying you absolutely have to camp out, starting tomorrow, to be SURE to get your clunker in under the program. But it certainly wouldn't hurt to have all your paperwork in order, with dotted i's and crossed t's and know exactly what car you will be buying on the day the dealer near you will begin accepting cars under the program.
Get your insurance statement, showing coverage periods. Find out whatever you need to find out from any title holder. Or just find the title. LOL! Maybe even have your financing ready, like through a credit union. Maybe making an appointment with a specific sales person for the morning the program goes into effect. Making sure that your dealership has their crap together so that there is no delay at one place, while another dealership is so well organized that they start swiping or swapping all the cars that are preferred.
Remember, they can't sell a car they don't have. And vin numbers are assigned HERE in the U.S. And it can take 5 months to get the car from ordering it specifically from a dealer, to be made...and that's longer than the program lasts.
The dealer I bought MY car from has, right now, 26 FITS.
5 Base (1 stick, 4 auto)
18 Sport(3 stick, 15 auto)
3 Nav/vsa (all auto)
If you wanted a Sport stick, you have a choice of three cars...and one color, they're all black. If you wanted Orange Revolution, sorry. They don't have any.
So, while over 200,000 cars sounds like a lot, you don't have 200,000 FITS to select from. You have what the dealer has. And the longer you wait, the less supply there is and the more likely they will have been picked over. At that dealer, if you're the fourth person who wants a Sport stick, you're out of luck.
NOW do you get it?
After just one week of accepting Cash-for-Clunkers trade-ins, Hyundai has revealed that these deals added up to 7 percent of its overall sales and could reach 10 percent by month's end
Source:
Cash-for-Clunkers trade-ins account for 7 percent of Hyundai sales in first week
And last month's sales were low, down 24%, to 37,943:
MarketWatch.com Story
and
Sales Releases - 07/01/2009
Along with the study they did about number of people holding back on buying while waiting for the program to start (11%):
Hyundai decided to offer its own CARS program during the interim period after a May study revealed 11 percent of buyers were holding back on a new vehicle purchase until a scrappage plan was put into place. “We appreciate what Washington has done getting the program completed, but it’s clear that the wait has left many potential car-buyers on the sidelines,” said John Krafcik, president and CEO, Hyundai Motor America. “We thought it was imperative to get funding to our dealers so that they could implement the program right away and satisfy the demand they’ve been hearing from consumers.”
Source:
Hyundai kicks off ‘cash for clunkers’ three weeks early
That's just Hyundai. What about Honda? Take a look at the U.S. sales figures for the month of June and year to date for Honda, here:
American Honda Reports June Sales - Honda - Press Releases - Selected Story
Honda, June: 92,120
Year to date: 479,696
We'll have all of August, September and October. Three full months. Plus the last week of July. Plus whatever Hyundai (and various promotions from other makers) has already taken in.
Honda by itself could use up the CARS program. LOL! But they aren't the only ones in the game. Toyota. Nissan. Mazda. Scion. VW. Ford. Those are in the recommended cars:
Cash for clunkers: Recommended cars that qualify for a voucher: Consumer Reports Cars Blog
People won't buy just the recommended cars though. There will be Chevy Aveos and Smarts and all sorts of other cars sold.
I'm not saying you absolutely have to camp out, starting tomorrow, to be SURE to get your clunker in under the program. But it certainly wouldn't hurt to have all your paperwork in order, with dotted i's and crossed t's and know exactly what car you will be buying on the day the dealer near you will begin accepting cars under the program.
Get your insurance statement, showing coverage periods. Find out whatever you need to find out from any title holder. Or just find the title. LOL! Maybe even have your financing ready, like through a credit union. Maybe making an appointment with a specific sales person for the morning the program goes into effect. Making sure that your dealership has their crap together so that there is no delay at one place, while another dealership is so well organized that they start swiping or swapping all the cars that are preferred.
Remember, they can't sell a car they don't have. And vin numbers are assigned HERE in the U.S. And it can take 5 months to get the car from ordering it specifically from a dealer, to be made...and that's longer than the program lasts.
The dealer I bought MY car from has, right now, 26 FITS.
5 Base (1 stick, 4 auto)
18 Sport(3 stick, 15 auto)
3 Nav/vsa (all auto)
If you wanted a Sport stick, you have a choice of three cars...and one color, they're all black. If you wanted Orange Revolution, sorry. They don't have any.
So, while over 200,000 cars sounds like a lot, you don't have 200,000 FITS to select from. You have what the dealer has. And the longer you wait, the less supply there is and the more likely they will have been picked over. At that dealer, if you're the fourth person who wants a Sport stick, you're out of luck.
NOW do you get it?
Last edited by TaffetaWhite; 07-16-2009 at 10:16 AM.
#29
07-16-2009, 10:26 AM
I'm not saying you absolutely have to camp out, starting tomorrow, to be SURE to get your clunker in under the program. But it certainly wouldn't hurt to have all your paperwork in order, with dotted i's and crossed t's and know exactly what car you will be buying on the day the dealer near you will begin accepting cars under the program.
Get your insurance statement, showing coverage periods. Find out whatever you need to find out from any title holder. Or just find the title. LOL! Maybe even have your financing ready, like through a credit union. Maybe making an appointment with a specific sales person for the morning the program goes into effect. Making sure that your dealership has their crap together so that there is no delay at one place, while another dealership is so well organized that they start swiping or swapping all the cars that are preferred.
Great advice! I have done the following to prepare:
1 - Got a letter from my insurance company stating that my vehicle has been insured for the past year (actually since late 2000 when I bought it new)
2 - Located my title. Ha! This sounds easy but as usual you can find all the titles you're NOT looking for, and never the one that you ARE looking for!
3 - Secured financing through Capital One auto loans, which I HIGHLY recommend. They basically send you a blank check good up to a certain amount that you can use to purchase your car. If you don't use it (for example, the dealer is able to offer a better rate), you simply send the check back to them and it costs you nothing. I was able to get 4.68% for 60 months, which is pretty darn good I think. If anyone is interested in seeing what they qualify for, here is the link to the Capital One site where you can apply:
Auto Loans - Capital One Auto Loans, Car Loans and Auto Financing
Warner
#30
07-16-2009, 11:05 AM
I just called the dealer that I'm working with, and they have set the car I want off to the side and marked it sold (I will tell my whole story AFTER I make my deal and know how it ended, but it's a fairly interesting story). They told me that until the CARS program is finalized (hopefully on the 23rd), what they are doing is writing up TWO contracts, JUST IN CASE. In other words, they are not taking any up front risks. So I'll be waiting until the 23rd since I've already had some "miscommunications" with this dealer. I'll explain in great detail after everything is settled.
Warner
Warner
Last edited by warner; 07-16-2009 at 11:18 AM. Reason: typo
#31
07-16-2009, 11:49 AM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 1,448
I'd be real careful with Capital One. That teeming horde of heathens works for them...
My3cents.com - Capital One complaints and reviews
Capital One Reviews. Buying Guides & Consumer Product Reviews - Epinions.com
Capital One Auto Finance Reviews. Buying Guides & Consumer Product Reviews - Epinions.com
Capital One Credit Card Complaints
http://www.ripoffreport.com/searchresults.asp?submit22=Search+All+The+Latest+R ip-Off+Reports+Now!&q1=ALL&q2=&q3=&q4=&q5=capital+one &q6=&q7=&searchtype=0
Realize also that Capital One sponsors the BBB, so there aren't a lot of things filed with BBB...call it a bribe if you will...
News Center - U.S. BBB
They're probably the least trustworthy group out there.
Class action law suit:
2009 Credit Suit - Credit, FICO Scoring and Collection News
Unusual practices in collections:
Capital One Admits Third Party Collector is Handling Account Though Lawsuit Names Them as Plaintiff
More complaints:
Consumer complaints about Capital One - Low Limit, High Charges
Even the Department of Justice was involved...
Capital One Collection Complaint Resolved : Provanta Corporation
I highly recommend that you seek out alternative financing and HASTILY RETURN ANYTHING RELATED TO CAPITAL ONE, THEN CHANGE YOUR NAME AND MOVE TO ANOTHER COUNTRY WHILE SCREAMING LIKE A LITTLE GIRL
My3cents.com - Capital One complaints and reviews
Capital One Reviews. Buying Guides & Consumer Product Reviews - Epinions.com
Capital One Auto Finance Reviews. Buying Guides & Consumer Product Reviews - Epinions.com
Capital One Credit Card Complaints
http://www.ripoffreport.com/searchresults.asp?submit22=Search+All+The+Latest+R ip-Off+Reports+Now!&q1=ALL&q2=&q3=&q4=&q5=capital+one &q6=&q7=&searchtype=0
Realize also that Capital One sponsors the BBB, so there aren't a lot of things filed with BBB...call it a bribe if you will...
News Center - U.S. BBB
They're probably the least trustworthy group out there.
Class action law suit:
2009 Credit Suit - Credit, FICO Scoring and Collection News
Unusual practices in collections:
Capital One Admits Third Party Collector is Handling Account Though Lawsuit Names Them as Plaintiff
More complaints:
Consumer complaints about Capital One - Low Limit, High Charges
Even the Department of Justice was involved...
Capital One Collection Complaint Resolved : Provanta Corporation
I highly recommend that you seek out alternative financing and HASTILY RETURN ANYTHING RELATED TO CAPITAL ONE, THEN CHANGE YOUR NAME AND MOVE TO ANOTHER COUNTRY WHILE SCREAMING LIKE A LITTLE GIRL
Last edited by TaffetaWhite; 07-16-2009 at 11:58 AM. Reason: Just can't get that last sentence to read right
#33
07-16-2009, 12:09 PM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 1,448
Capital One Auto Finance Reviews. Buying Guides & Consumer Product Reviews - Epinions.com
Cons: Poor customer service, deceptive tactics.
Cons: Intentionally Slow At Retaining Your Title/Lien And Overpayments. Texas-Based.
Cons: Customer Service is about as useless as a poop-flavored lollipop.
Cons: Incompetent customer service
Cons: Extra payment does not go to principal but delays billing cycle
Cons: Instructions for the Blank Check could have been clearer. Of course customer service
Cons: No way to contact a human, poor closure, subpar customer service.
Cons: Customer non-service
Cons: Deceiving website, cannot decline if offer not acceptable, payments applied incorrectly, POOR CUSTOMER SERVICE
Cons: Dishonest representatives Bait and switch interest rates Lengthy and difficult private seller transactions
That's just a few. Some are more serious. ......
Pros: NONE
Cons: Deceptive and perhaps fraudulent practices.
I applied for an auto loan on-line through Capital One. I was quickly approved. They sent me a blank check in the amount of my approval. I did not use the check as I was not sure that I wanted to proceed with the auto purchase. A few weeks after receiving the check, I received my first installment payment invoice! The original blank check was still sitting on my desk. No car was purchase, the check was not cashed yet they wanted me to start making payments. I called them the moment I opened the invoice. They told me the funds (the blank check) were funds already drawn on their bank which of course is insane since the check was not cashed. I would strongly suggest that any consumer shopping for a car loan NOT use Capital One. Just a terrible experience bordering on fraud.
#35
07-16-2009, 01:17 PM
Its a good idea to get numbers in writing too so you can go straight to just getting your car once the program kicks in and there's no more haggling involved on either part. Good luck and keep us updated on the outcome.
#36
07-16-2009, 01:20 PM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 1,448
#37
07-16-2009, 01:42 PM
Does it really have to be a letter from the insurance company? My parents have paperwork stating we were insured (6 months at a time) from 2008-2009....is that alright to use? Or do we really have to get our insurance to type a letter out for us?
#38
07-16-2009, 01:57 PM
You should have an actual ibnsurance policy with the VIN number in it showing coverage dates. I have no idea what a letter would be worth. but it doesn't sound good.
#39
07-16-2009, 02:08 PM
Warner
#40
07-16-2009, 06:41 PM
Looking it up on fueleconomy.gov (listed in the gasguzzler bill as the official source) all 3 of the 4WD '96 Explorers qualify as none have combined numbers over 17 mpg. So with the rest of your data you look like a winner if you can qualify for financing AND you find a registered dealer. Since the Fit is rated at 30 mpg you should get $4500 as its more than 10 mpg better. And you can buy an 08 and qualify if you're looking to save money by not buying new.