I'm not dissatisfied with my 31 MPG overall. I do get 36 MPG no long trips cruising at 78 MPH. Just posting my results, not editorializing or seeking advice in any way. However, for my use, I see no advantage in spending the extra money for premium gasoline.

 

Here is more info for using higher octane, Bad Gasoline Causes Performance Problems and this is a update 2 years later Gasoline Quality. Notice the difference. Compression ratios are higher now than 2003.

 

Sorry for the noob post, but there is so much technical stuff and numbers that I don't know what I am reading anymore. So what is the verdict on this issue for a stock Fit, 87 or 93?

 

You'll really want to read the whole thread, but the short answer is, you may get a little better mileage on 93, depending on how you drive. You will likely notice a bit more power on 93, again depending on how you drive.

The cost per mile is probably slightly cheaper on 87 than 93, but since everyone's car and driving styles are different, you'll just have to try it for a while and see if it works for you.

There also seems to be some evidence in favor of the idea that 93 fuel is generally of higher quality than 87 fuel, due to higher additive content and different chemical composition.

 

Not if you use Top Tier Gasoline .

 

I tried reading all 3 pages and that's what made me confused lol. Thanks for the quick response.

 

I personally prefer 93 for its power and response. It also allows me to stay near top MPG more easily. However, I don't think it's enough to completely offset MY additional costs in GA.

In some places 93 and 87 are about the same price.

 

Yea, after the first 2 tanks, I switched to 93 octane cause with a 10 gallon tank, it is only about $3 more for premium per tank. I just wanted to know the "facts" so I can feel better about paying a few dollars more haha.

 

The label "Top Tier" is BS and has nothing to do with the actual difference between brands and grades.

There are as many as 90 different blends of gas in circulation at any point in time throughout the US.

Lately I have had better results using BP 93 E0 which is not a Top Tier distributor, vs the Shell 93 E10 I normally use.

The ECU was able to lean out a couple tenths of a point in closed loop and crank up the boost 2psi before seeing knock without doing anything else to my pump gas only tune. (28-29psi on BP vs. 26-27psi on Shell) That is with no meth/water or toluene like I run in the summer to skew those results.

That may not sound like a lot but I picked up 3lbs/min (20-40whp) with that 2psi, and I dropped my 70-90mph and 80-100mph times by 1/4 second.

Top Tier is kind of a misnomer and more of a marketing ploy then anything else.

 

If you read Top Tier Gasoline the only aspect it is concerned with is the detergent additive package, nothing else. If you read my reply (which you quoted), it was about the detergent additive package nothing else. Gasoline is fungible. This means when an oil company ships a load up the pipeline (where I live we are served by the Plantation Pipeline), the oil company pust a load in and gets a load out. They don't get the same product out as they put in. So your BP today could be (and probably is) actually a product of another company. And will probably be the product of a different oil company on the next truck serving your station.

 

Well, I am glad we are in agreement then, because that is basically what I was intimating.

So far this winter, I have had better results using BP vs. the Shell I typically go to.

That is why I pointed out that there are dozens and dozens of fuel blends in circulation.

It is because of this that the moniker "Top Tier" is effectively BS.

The end performance of Fuels and Oils often has little to do with the base stock used. And as you noted it is the additive constituents that make the difference.

 

It doesn't cost me one cent more to use the Honda recommended Top Tier Gas. That's pretty much all that I use, I really don't care what anyone else uses (Brand, octane, additive, etc.).

 

Top Tier is a voluntary opt-in club for distributors.

It means nothing when we are talking about the quality or performance potential of the end product. The Honda recommendation for TT gas is more so customers consistently use brand name fuel which helps eliminate variables for the service techs when diagnosing issues as opposed to an endorsement of one brands performance/quality credentials over another.

Because there are so many different blends going to a given gas station, it is tough to say where each batch originated. This is why the TT recommendation came about. To encourage people to use a big name, high turnover station where available.

Instead of Bob's garage in the boonies.

We are still in agreement here, yes? You are not trying to imply that the TT brands are somehow inherently "better," right?

We don't want to mislead any random passerby going through this thread...

 

Simply not true at all.

The list has increased.

The benefit comes in the increase in detergents and reduction engine build up. My direct experience running it in my Sedan DeVille showed me a 3% increase in MPG.

The opinion you state was common in the early year of TTFuel - a push back of those companies that reduced the detergent levels to the new EPA minimums.

Is it better - it's gasoline with a higher detergent content that keeps the engine deposits down and that can have a positive effect on performance, longevity and fuel economy.

 

It is true... you can exceed the levels dictated by the EPA and OE manufacturers and not be a TT distributor.

BP dissent statement reflects this and explains why they opted out..

And as discussed the actual fuel that arrives at the station could have originated in several places. With a variety of different additives to the required base stocks for US consumption.

Because when we are talking content by volume for X, Y and Z additives they only need to exceed the levels set by the OEMs and the EPA, that doesn't mean they are inherently better or in greater concentration for a TT company than another big brand fuel company like BP.

The emissions that come out the tailpipe aren't simply based on the fuel, what actually occurs in the combustion chamber determines that as well.

Station to station there will be differences in the same brand, even between pumps at the same station.

 

My understanding is that the additives are added as the delivery trucks are loaded, so they are consistant when delivered to stations.

BP has already proven how honest and corporately responsible they are. I wouldn't use their dealers even if they were "Top Tier".

 

So you are going to hurt the US owners and franchisees of stations because Tony Hayward is a twat? How does that make any sense?

BP provides a quality product that is indisputable, and if you are going to hold their feet to the fire how about you check out what some of the TT guys, like Shell, are doing in places like the Niger Delta for instance, before you talk trash about another group with a comparable track record.

And I like both companies, FWIW.

My contentions were:

1. Assuming TT distributors providing better fuel by default

2. That recently, the winter blends I have been getting in my area have shown me irrefutable gains by switching from the group I typically use (RDShell) to BP.

Nothing more.

You aren't sticking it to BP by avoiding their franchisees. You are hurting US citizens looking to make a buck to support their families just like you and me.

Edit: They are mixed by region and sometimes locally. This also doesn't account for what is left in the tanks under the pump, or any other variables, like contaminates left in the truck or condensed water vapor, etc.

Fuel is no black and white no matter where you get it is my overall point.

 

If BP was concerned about their dealers they would be Top Tier. I haven't used BP gasoline since Top Tier was introduced, long before the Deepwater Horizon incident.

There are many products I don't buy. Do you drive an American made car? (I do.) If not "You are hurting US citizens looking to make a buck to support their families just like you and me."

 

If you actually sought out and read BP's dissent statement you would get a glimpse at how much you misunderstand the situation. BP's case is outlined quite nicely in their dissent piece. They didn't sign on because they don't feel like having an OEM make business decisions for them or open themselves to added liability.

Logic, try it sometime. I sense a lot of emotional investment on this coming from you. Did BP touch you when you were younger? Kicked your dog maybe?

What american made cars do you own?

The window sticker for Honda Fits ( including my 2008, and the 2011 I was checking out on wednesday) state 95% of the car line is sourced from Japan.

So your Fit doesn't count.

These american made cars you are talking about, are they from a US-based manufacturer that was actually made in Canada or Mexico? (Ford & GM)

Or was your car actually built in the US? Like Hyundai, Mercedes, Toyota or Subaru?

 

Nissan Xterra, assembled in Smyrna TN. Engine manufactured in Dechard, TN; Glass from Vonore, TN; anti-lock parts from Athens, TN; rear axle fron Dana Corp. USA. All in all 80+% domestic content.

What American made do you drive? If none "You are hurting US citizens looking to make a buck to support their families just like you and me."