Wow...this turned into a lefty bash.

 

No, you just need to know where your values lie and what you believe, and not what someone else tells you to believe. No bashing, just educate yourself so you don't believe slogans and catch-phrases from EITHER party or any party. If I wanted to bash anyone, believe me, I've got the weapons to do it. What I really want is for people to INFORM themselves about our government and what it was supposed to be, examine their own core beliefs, and then VOTE! It is not a choice to vote or not, it is a DUTY that was bought for us with the blood of many Americans and there are many countries around the world where the people would LOVE to have the chance to participate in choosing their government and yet...we pass all that up to watch American Idol or some bullshit like that.

 

Can someone tell me how it is possible for communism to survive when the greed of people desiring more and more material possessions and the education that is prevalent in countries that have adapted the philosophy stimulates them to want more also... Communism can only be successful when it allows the majority of the uneducated, illiterate people to prosper and learn and so far it has been successful in doing that.. When that has been done they are a threat because they too are able to become productive participants in world trade... When 3% of a country's population is literate and everyone else amount to nothing more than cerfs they become stronger as they are educated.... It is the capitalist that have been doing a number on the people of the world and corporatism has had more of a negative impact on the U.S. than any leftist regime.... It was the same people that financed the Federal reserve system that backed the Bolshevic Revolution 5 years later... It is unbridled capitalism and greed that caused the bailouts and wrecked the chances of many to ever own a home not socialism or communism.... Extremism and black or white thinking is not going to make anything improve for anyone except those controlling things by having you choose one of two schools of thought instead of thinking with an open mind.

 

That didn't make much sense Coyote, you are rambling, go get some sleep and no more beers.

The bailouts were a result of government forcing banks to loan money to bad risks in the first place. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were both corrupt and the Congress had been holding a gun to banks telling them that everyone has a right to a home, so make it work. Then, even more intervention once the loans went bad.

I woud like to invite you to go to Cuba and spend a few years there if you don't enjoy capitalism....Sure China has some capitalistic elements but overall, they still are under communism with a centralized government that the people have no power in.

Capitalism is still the best option there is for bettering everyone's lives. Communism and Sharia sure aren't on my list of possible options!

 

Ummm I have a degree in Political Science. I am educated on the issues and I do know where I stand. I am not swayed by propagandized bullshit and just FYI I am a teacher and I make it my number one goal to get these kids to open up their minds, think for themselves, challenge the system and research.

 

Omg and I will fight to the death for Coyote. He makes sense and knows a hell of a lot. I'm so effing tired of hearing communism this and communism that. It's all about greed and not wanting to do for anyone other than self.

Also, since you brought up Sharia. I love me some true Muslims. Yay for the brothers of Christians and Jews. It is NOT about terrorism, jihad or holding women down, it's about loving God and ALL his people.

You probably hate gays too.

 

And the mortgage asses wanted the loans to pad their pockets. No one had a proverbial gun to their poor 6 figure head.

 

Things are changing, you just have to know where to look. Look at that rally a couple weeks ago, people are pissed and Republicans are on notice too when they get back in control (I'm a conservative) they better change things as soon as possible. "Hope and Change"....I HOPE things CHANGE....they better!!!

I don't think we've ever had a "blue collar" guy in the oval orifice, I wonder how that would work itself out, can't be any worse

 

You all are really exspressing good thoughts here, well done! This is what this post is for, all of us to talk to one another about our country and what we feel is happening to it. The thoughts have been well thought out and from the heart.
I would be great to hear what the 20-30year old generation thinks or doesn't think of the state of America. Some of us here have seen many years pass and have gained much knowledge in living the younger persons' history.
Thank-you all for the insight you have written on this post. I love America and pray every day for strong moral turn around in our land. God, Family and America may we all belive in all three with every thing that is in us.

 

Just for shiggles... I'm 26

I have plenty of thoughts but am not prone to bashing.

 

That's what this thread is here for our honest opinions about our country. "bashing" is for the inmature mind. I hope the honesty out weights the ego on this thread.
Be truthful in what you feel about this country it's your oppinion and if it's from the heart and thought out I would love to hear it. We are to read the thoughts of eachother and respond knowing the other end of the sentence has been written by someone who has taken the time to write down their honest thoughts.
Mike
God Bless and I'll see ya all tommorrow...

 

I am all about being truthful and do my best to seek out what is truth before allowing myself to be fooled again.... TPTB have power and resources like the news media outlets that they own and they are masters of deceit and manipulative ways of misinforming good people....Between my time in Vietnam and the computer age I spent a great deal of my time finding answers to my questions about why we as a country would spend so much money killing people in 3rd world countries that were in a struggles against oppressive governments.... In the end the answer always was corporate profit... Corporatism is far removed from supply and demand capitalism and depends on a twisted form of socialism to prosper... As long as the bastards control the money and media they own us... So who wants to throw the first brick and be first to stand up to them like those in have in smaller countries that they have squashed....It is an international worldwide power base that chooses who pulls the strings publicly. Look at what happened 11-22-63 in Dallas to the last man elected president that wasn't chosen and wouldn't play their game.

 

There has been no bashing on this thread. Why would debate be seen as bashing? As I said, I could flame with the best of you having been trained on the internets for years now, but all I have said is INFORM yourselves and know where your information is coming from, as well as (I will add) examine your own biases and the reasons for them. We all have them, we've all got our individual minds and lives to live from.

Whatever you believe and support, just know that it is your DUTY not an option to participate in this democratic Republic...or you will be controlled by those whose ideals you don't support.

 

Oh hey btw the right winged Texas Education Agency has decided that we no longer live in a democratic republic. It's now called a Constitutional Republic.

 

This made me chuckle... There are plenty of people who are addicted because a) that's how they make their money (hello Houston) or b) they are driving something gas guzzling for the status not need of it.

I cannot believe the arrogance of those environmentalists! How dare them!

Oh yeah...oil extraction's sooooo safe now! Definitely does NOT blow up multiple rigs and send tons of crude into our oceans. Nope, doesn't do that.

Passive? Middle East? Hah! We need to stop PUSHING our ideas on everyone else! Let them be Muslims. They've got good people and greedy ones too. I, personally, know lots of awesome Muslims. And I am wise enough to know there are many many more out there.

 

The founding fathers would be shocked that we the people held on to a democratic form of government as long as we have.... We still register to vote but where in the hell do these people we have to choose from come from and whose interest do they really represent? Finding the answers to questions will drive you crazy and possibly put you in a position where it is in your best interest to hide out in the woods if you are to share what you know with the wrong persons.

 

Bravo. Black and white thinking has always been the most potent force for control in the world. You needn't look farther than the notion of heaven and hell to see that.

Our entire system and society is becoming polarized. Middle class vanishing, left/right politics getting heavy, digital/analog lifestyle split. Everything is narrow and focused in due to the media. Our lens for the world has turned into that of a camera.

I don't blame us though - with so much information available, how else are we to integrate it? The easy solution is to take one of two sides, but I can't really explain why that is. The most natural feeling inside us is a pretty basic "us and them" I guess. We have our tribe and your tribe. Light and dark. It's the principle all of existence is based on.

Personally, I do not feel it natural to know what is going on all over the world all the time. It's too much. I was not meant to be able to find meaning in the face of so many options, so many ideas, and so much capitalism and fierce competitiveness.

The internet and media are causing this. Everything is seemingly transparent, presented in ways that make it seem truthful, or a package that is easily swallowed. As such, we are becoming, very quickly, completely polarized beings without identity or accountability - just the vessel and parrots of these powerfully presented packages. As a whole world, we will express this to the level of either blowing each other up in some doomsday scenario, or make a breakthrough.

When there are only two halves to an equation, it's also easier to solve. It only needs one solution. Ya hear me? It's the only path towards peace if you think about it, and this could be extended not to talk just about nations and cultures coming together, but about internal struggles and societal functioning as well. My professional training included subject surrounding Gestalt and existential modes of mental healing, that I think have a lot of relevance to countering the current problems we all face internally. Finding meaning - and bringing the "parts" of ourselves together until a wholeness is achieved (Gestalt.)

The question I have, is when will America give up on some of it's materialistic goals and find some other type of meaning to motivate it towards prosperity? Did credit ruin the reward? Spiritual motivation has certainly gone away. The whole system must have become very disappointing somewhere in there. The American dream died. The corporate dream lives. When you choose to be a part of the system, you are more of a slave than ever. Thank god for the internet's ability to empower some people to actually gain independence though. All this technology is an incredibly powerful medium that can be used for good or bad.

I hope individual recognizes that to some degree, and how they are contributing to one side of the other. Do you promote fear, or a heart-driven independence? I think that is a good way of framing it. As far as politics go, there are people expressing both qualities on both sides. We have no control when it comes to that subject. Our leaders could very well have been tailored and elected for motives unknown to us by higher influences in the world than a national government, but conspiracy theories aside, it's completely irrelevant. Just another thing to distract you!

People waste their energy trying to sort out their feelings about politics and conspiracies instead of changing their lives, and the world around them. That is what I think the up-and-coming generations will fail at. A generation of ideas -- America's creativity diverted into the pages of internet forums, blog posts and status updates.

 

I think we all need to "grow a pair" as a country and take it back before its too late, seriously.

Because its coming up and I've been thinking about it, I wonder how "Mr. Hope and Change" is going to get out of being at Ground Zero again like he did last year, sending that puppet Biden there IIRC. Seriously, you guys have to be embarrased by him too, right

I voted for Bush Jr twice, the first time I'm glad I did because we had the right guy in the office when attacked, seriously, imagine Gore in there, with his finger up in the air about what to do. Bush had his finger in the air too, finger on the phone to flush the bombers as that guy said in "War Games"! The second time I was pissed I voted for him because of the gas prices, total BS IMO and maybe I'm way off base about that but I thought it was sickening that the gas prices went waaaay down a couple monthes before he left office, very suspicious! I mean look at that BP spill, the prices didn't go off the chart when all that crap happened but if that had happened under Bush, my God we'd be paying about $5.00 or more a gallon here in Chicago!

In closing, I didn't vote last time out because noone there appealed to me, I wasn't voting for "Mr. Hope and Change" and I was voting for McCain who called a gas station a "filling station", waaaaay out of touch IMO. Who in the hell do we have warming up in the bullpen

BTW, FWIW, I'm 40 and son a guy who worked for GM for over 35 years and grew up in the city of Detroit!

 

Hayden said Gestalt.... People have looked at me with question marks on their faces for decades when I've used that word.... Be careful Hayden, I've been accused of being a subversive on FitFreak for talking about etiquette and decorum.

 

History and international relations expert and former US Army Colonel Andrew J. Bacevich who identifies three major problems facing our democracy: the crises of economy, government and militarism, and calls for a redefinition of the American way of life :

Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Quite some time ago I watched this Bill Moyers PBS interview and became very intrigued by Bacevich's insights. This guy deserves a listen, in my opinion, from our country as a whole. He touches on much of what is being discussed here - and more.

My mother (almost 70yrs of age) and myself (45) are preparing for a month-long visit to her side of the family in Germany. I can only afford to go as my father (30yr Army career officer) passed away 2 months ago after a long battle with cancer - leaving me with an inheritance that he told me to go out and enjoy my life with.

My past visits to Germany have been much shorter but have still shown me some interesting aspects of life in a different country, and I expect this trip to be much more eye-opening. I will be visiting relatives scattered all over Germany, as well as going to my first family reunion there - the only remaining member of my grandparents generation will be turing 90 and we are having a celebration with at least 36 family members attending.

During the inevitable pre-trip shopping for gifts to take with us, my mother has been very vocal about everything being made in China. I understand that gifts from the States would be more meaningful if they were made here, but there just isn't much available anymore... Bacevich brings up the loss to our country that came with ceasing manufacture of so many products and the corresponding influx of inexpensive Asian goods. Zenith console TV's, anyone?

BTW - I'll read and respond to the forums while I'm over there - also planning on getting some cool shots of the German Jazz - maybe even a brochure. My mom's cousin owns a large Fiat dealership over there :

http://www.schatta.de/

I'll be trying for a test drive of a Fiat 500 1.4 16v Sport package, specs seem very close to the Fit Sport.

Hope I didn't go to far afield with this post, but I thought it ties in pretty well. You guys have a great month, talk to ya later!