93 civic turns over but won't start
#1
05-04-2005, 11:16 AM
Guest
Posts: n/a
93 civic turns over but won't start
Hello,
I've looked at quite a few posts plus I've read, re-read and read
some more of a Haynes service manual and am about at the end of my
rope. Thanks for any help you can offer.
Here's my story:
I drove my 93 civic to work last week and at lunch it wouldn't
start. It would turn over but that was it.
I had it towed home and a friend came over and we checked a few things.
The timing belt seems to look fine. We unscrewed a vent type of nut
from the top of the fuel filter and turned over the engine and gas was
coming out.
Then we checked for sparks on the wires. We didn't have any sparks.
So we started looking at the distributor.
We couldn't see anything obvious so I picked up a ohmmeter/voltmeter
and tested the coil. It seemed to fail the test the book mentions so I
bought another coil. Also, I bought new plugs, new rotor and new cap
and fuel filter (they haven't been replace for too many miles
anyway). I installed all of the above stuff I bought and the car still
won't start.
The sound it makes now, after the new coil, rotor & cap are installed,
when it turns over is a bit different. Sounds like it almost wants to
catch, but doesn't. I checked 2 of the wires (1 & 2) and they both
have a spark going to them. One thing I want to check is to go ahead
and check the other 2 wires. But my guess is that they are fine too. I
say this because I checked the resistance of the wires with my new
ohmmeter and they seemed to check out; that's why I didn't go ahead
and buy new wires.
But the big problem is: the car still won't start!!
So, is it something maybe with the fuel too? I can hear the pump kick
on when I turn the ignition switch on and fuel comes out. One test in
the book says to attach a fuel pressure test kit and test for pressure
(but that's another $30 and 3 hours of time).
I still haven't checked the ICM, but could the distributor be
producing a spark to the wires without the ICM working correctly? As it
stands it seems like maybe I should take back the new coil and get an
entire distributor and put the new one in and see if that would work.
The one in there now is also a replacement I had put in about 3 years
ago. It's one from a 95 honda civic.
At this point I'm ready to go ahead and let a shop look at it. I let
a friend talk me into trying to get it started at home but it's been
over a week since it broke down and I have a spare vehicle to use to
get around but I need my work car back. I'd rather learn to fix it
because it's totally paid for and I would like to continue using my
beloved honda as long as possible.
The car has 196,000 miles or so.
Thanks for any help you can give to save my sanity and get my car
fixed.
P.S. This is also posted in rec.autos.tech group
I've looked at quite a few posts plus I've read, re-read and read
some more of a Haynes service manual and am about at the end of my
rope. Thanks for any help you can offer.
Here's my story:
I drove my 93 civic to work last week and at lunch it wouldn't
start. It would turn over but that was it.
I had it towed home and a friend came over and we checked a few things.
The timing belt seems to look fine. We unscrewed a vent type of nut
from the top of the fuel filter and turned over the engine and gas was
coming out.
Then we checked for sparks on the wires. We didn't have any sparks.
So we started looking at the distributor.
We couldn't see anything obvious so I picked up a ohmmeter/voltmeter
and tested the coil. It seemed to fail the test the book mentions so I
bought another coil. Also, I bought new plugs, new rotor and new cap
and fuel filter (they haven't been replace for too many miles
anyway). I installed all of the above stuff I bought and the car still
won't start.
The sound it makes now, after the new coil, rotor & cap are installed,
when it turns over is a bit different. Sounds like it almost wants to
catch, but doesn't. I checked 2 of the wires (1 & 2) and they both
have a spark going to them. One thing I want to check is to go ahead
and check the other 2 wires. But my guess is that they are fine too. I
say this because I checked the resistance of the wires with my new
ohmmeter and they seemed to check out; that's why I didn't go ahead
and buy new wires.
But the big problem is: the car still won't start!!
So, is it something maybe with the fuel too? I can hear the pump kick
on when I turn the ignition switch on and fuel comes out. One test in
the book says to attach a fuel pressure test kit and test for pressure
(but that's another $30 and 3 hours of time).
I still haven't checked the ICM, but could the distributor be
producing a spark to the wires without the ICM working correctly? As it
stands it seems like maybe I should take back the new coil and get an
entire distributor and put the new one in and see if that would work.
The one in there now is also a replacement I had put in about 3 years
ago. It's one from a 95 honda civic.
At this point I'm ready to go ahead and let a shop look at it. I let
a friend talk me into trying to get it started at home but it's been
over a week since it broke down and I have a spare vehicle to use to
get around but I need my work car back. I'd rather learn to fix it
because it's totally paid for and I would like to continue using my
beloved honda as long as possible.
The car has 196,000 miles or so.
Thanks for any help you can give to save my sanity and get my car
fixed.
P.S. This is also posted in rec.autos.tech group
#2
05-04-2005, 11:16 AM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 civic turns over but won't start
I don't think your ignitor is the problem as you are getting sparks.
You could have jumped some teeth, but that is also less likely since you
weren't getting sparks. What are the chances that you have both problems
happen at the very same time, right?
Last time I had a problem like this with our integra, after I got it all
fixed it would not start either. It sounded different, but just wouldn't
catch. I had spark again so my problem was indeed fixed (in my case it was
the ignitor and coil).
To get it started, I took the large air intake hose off and shot some
starter fluid in the manifold. Flooring the pedal, It caughed back to life
and has been running fine since then.
I am not sure why this was needed, but suspect that the computer somehow
retained the bad condition and made adjustments accordingly. After the fix
was made, those adjustments were totally bogus. This is pure conjecture, but
it worked for me.
(On a Subaru and Saab, I do know the computers does do weird things like
this, so my assumption is that Honda/Accura might be similar)
Hope this is useful to you.
Remco
You could have jumped some teeth, but that is also less likely since you
weren't getting sparks. What are the chances that you have both problems
happen at the very same time, right?
Last time I had a problem like this with our integra, after I got it all
fixed it would not start either. It sounded different, but just wouldn't
catch. I had spark again so my problem was indeed fixed (in my case it was
the ignitor and coil).
To get it started, I took the large air intake hose off and shot some
starter fluid in the manifold. Flooring the pedal, It caughed back to life
and has been running fine since then.
I am not sure why this was needed, but suspect that the computer somehow
retained the bad condition and made adjustments accordingly. After the fix
was made, those adjustments were totally bogus. This is pure conjecture, but
it worked for me.
(On a Subaru and Saab, I do know the computers does do weird things like
this, so my assumption is that Honda/Accura might be similar)
Hope this is useful to you.
Remco
#3
05-04-2005, 11:16 AM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 civic turns over but won't start
On 23 Feb 2005 07:59:36 -0800, brettellingson@yahoo.com wrote:
>Also, I bought new plugs, new rotor and new cap
>and fuel filter
And I'll bet that last is the cause of your present problem.
>The sound it makes now, after the new coil, rotor & cap are installed,
>when it turns over is a bit different. Sounds like it almost wants to
>catch, but doesn't.
Because the fuel rail isn't up to full pressure.
>So, is it something maybe with the fuel too? I can hear the pump kick
>on when I turn the ignition switch on and fuel comes out.
But the 2 seconds that the ECU lets the pump run is only enough to
bring the fuel rail up to full pressure if it's already full. If it's
been drained because of a fuel filter change, the pump has to run for
20 or 30 seconds to bring the rail up to pressure.
So either jumper 12 volts direct to the fuel pump for a minute or so,
or cycle the ignition key from off to run a dozen times before you try
to turn the engine over. See also:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#stalling
>Also, I bought new plugs, new rotor and new cap
>and fuel filter
And I'll bet that last is the cause of your present problem.
>The sound it makes now, after the new coil, rotor & cap are installed,
>when it turns over is a bit different. Sounds like it almost wants to
>catch, but doesn't.
Because the fuel rail isn't up to full pressure.
>So, is it something maybe with the fuel too? I can hear the pump kick
>on when I turn the ignition switch on and fuel comes out.
But the 2 seconds that the ECU lets the pump run is only enough to
bring the fuel rail up to full pressure if it's already full. If it's
been drained because of a fuel filter change, the pump has to run for
20 or 30 seconds to bring the rail up to pressure.
So either jumper 12 volts direct to the fuel pump for a minute or so,
or cycle the ignition key from off to run a dozen times before you try
to turn the engine over. See also:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#stalling
#4
05-04-2005, 11:16 AM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 civic turns over but won't start
remco wrote:
> I don't think your ignitor is the problem as you are getting sparks.
>
> You could have jumped some teeth, but that is also less likely since
you
> weren't getting sparks. What are the chances that you have both
problems
> happen at the very same time, right?
>
> Last time I had a problem like this with our integra, after I got it
all
> fixed it would not start either. It sounded different, but just
wouldn't
> catch. I had spark again so my problem was indeed fixed (in my case
it was
> the ignitor and coil).
> To get it started, I took the large air intake hose off and shot some
> starter fluid in the manifold. Flooring the pedal, It caughed back to
life
> and has been running fine since then.
>
> I am not sure why this was needed, but suspect that the computer
somehow
> retained the bad condition and made adjustments accordingly. After
the fix
> was made, those adjustments were totally bogus. This is pure
conjecture, but
> it worked for me.
> (On a Subaru and Saab, I do know the computers does do weird things
like
> this, so my assumption is that Honda/Accura might be similar)
>
> Hope this is useful to you.
> Remco
Thanks for the help, I'll try these things and get back to you
#7
05-04-2005, 11:16 AM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 civic turns over but won't start
brettellingson@yahoo.com wrote:
> Thanks, I'll try these things and get back to you
Clean the external surface of the HT plug wires with some kind
of solvent (gas?) and when it's completely dried out try it again.
--
Graham W http://www.gcw.org.uk/ PGM-FI page updated, Graphics Tutorial
WIMBORNE http://www.wessex-astro-society.freeserve.co.uk/ Wessex
Dorset UK Astro Society's Web pages, Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps
Change 'news' to 'sewn' in my Reply address to avoid my spam filter.
> Thanks, I'll try these things and get back to you
Clean the external surface of the HT plug wires with some kind
of solvent (gas?) and when it's completely dried out try it again.
--
Graham W http://www.gcw.org.uk/ PGM-FI page updated, Graphics Tutorial
WIMBORNE http://www.wessex-astro-society.freeserve.co.uk/ Wessex
Dorset UK Astro Society's Web pages, Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps
Change 'news' to 'sewn' in my Reply address to avoid my spam filter.
#8
05-04-2005, 11:16 AM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 civic turns over but won't start
brettellingson@yahoo.com wrote in
news:1109174376.593345.139460@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com:
> Hello,
>
> I've looked at quite a few posts plus I've read, re-read and read
> some more of a Haynes service manual and am about at the end of my
> rope. Thanks for any help you can offer.
Well, you can start properly cross-posting instead of posting two separate
messages with identical subject lines in unrelated groups. You're a newbie,
aren't you?
Two things to try: First, turn key on (but NOT to Start!) so Check Engine
light comes on. Wait for it to go off. Turn key off, then on again, wait,
then off. Repeat a dozen times. Now try to start.
Didn't work? Second method:
Listen VERY carefully to the area under the dash, to the left of the
steering wheel, as you turn the key.
1) Turn key to ON (but not start): Check Engine light comes on. You should
hear a CLICK from the EFI Main Relay
2) Check engine light goes off: Another CLICK from Main Relay
3) Turn key to START: Final CLICK from Main Relay.
Do you hear any of those clicks?
It may be helpful to put your hand under the dash behind the coin box and
touch the relay to feel the clicks.
If you hear all the clicks, start suspecting the ignition switch. How new
is your key? A worn key can cause this too.
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#stalling
--
TeGGeR®
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
news:1109174376.593345.139460@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com:
> Hello,
>
> I've looked at quite a few posts plus I've read, re-read and read
> some more of a Haynes service manual and am about at the end of my
> rope. Thanks for any help you can offer.
Well, you can start properly cross-posting instead of posting two separate
messages with identical subject lines in unrelated groups. You're a newbie,
aren't you?
Two things to try: First, turn key on (but NOT to Start!) so Check Engine
light comes on. Wait for it to go off. Turn key off, then on again, wait,
then off. Repeat a dozen times. Now try to start.
Didn't work? Second method:
Listen VERY carefully to the area under the dash, to the left of the
steering wheel, as you turn the key.
1) Turn key to ON (but not start): Check Engine light comes on. You should
hear a CLICK from the EFI Main Relay
2) Check engine light goes off: Another CLICK from Main Relay
3) Turn key to START: Final CLICK from Main Relay.
Do you hear any of those clicks?
It may be helpful to put your hand under the dash behind the coin box and
touch the relay to feel the clicks.
If you hear all the clicks, start suspecting the ignition switch. How new
is your key? A worn key can cause this too.
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#stalling
--
TeGGeR®
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
#9
05-04-2005, 11:16 AM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 civic turns over but won't start
John Ings wrote:
> So either jumper 12 volts direct to the fuel pump for a minute or so,
> or cycle the ignition key from off to run a dozen times before you try
> to turn the engine over. See also:
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#stalling
good time to check for leaks, too.
> So either jumper 12 volts direct to the fuel pump for a minute or so,
> or cycle the ignition key from off to run a dozen times before you try
> to turn the engine over. See also:
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#stalling
good time to check for leaks, too.
#10
05-04-2005, 11:16 AM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 civic turns over but won't start
I didn't really consider myself a newbie....but sorry for causing the
confusion of posting in 2 groups.
I broke down and took the car to a local mechanic. They ran a
dianostic: no problems. Saw gas on the spark plugs and realized it was
flooded. Now it's running fine.
In the future, how to you fix flooding?
Thanks for the help and the posts.
confusion of posting in 2 groups.
I broke down and took the car to a local mechanic. They ran a
dianostic: no problems. Saw gas on the spark plugs and realized it was
flooded. Now it's running fine.
In the future, how to you fix flooding?
Thanks for the help and the posts.
#11
05-04-2005, 11:16 AM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 civic turns over but won't start
brettellingson@yahoo.com wrote:
> I didn't really consider myself a newbie....but sorry for causing the
> confusion of posting in 2 groups.
>
> I broke down and took the car to a local mechanic. They ran a
> dianostic: no problems. Saw gas on the spark plugs and realized it was
> flooded. Now it's running fine.
>
> In the future, how to you fix flooding?
floor the pedal while cranking. lets more air in and shuts off the
injectors.
>
> Thanks for the help and the posts.
>
> I didn't really consider myself a newbie....but sorry for causing the
> confusion of posting in 2 groups.
>
> I broke down and took the car to a local mechanic. They ran a
> dianostic: no problems. Saw gas on the spark plugs and realized it was
> flooded. Now it's running fine.
>
> In the future, how to you fix flooding?
floor the pedal while cranking. lets more air in and shuts off the
injectors.
>
> Thanks for the help and the posts.
>
#12
05-04-2005, 11:16 AM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 civic turns over but won't start
brettellingson@yahoo.com wrote:
> I didn't really consider myself a newbie....but sorry for causing the
> confusion of posting in 2 groups.
>
> I broke down and took the car to a local mechanic. They ran a
> dianostic: no problems. Saw gas on the spark plugs and realized it was
> flooded. Now it's running fine.
>
> In the future, how to you fix flooding?
>
> Thanks for the help and the posts.
----------------------------
The temporary fix is to hold it to the floor and crank it till it
starts. That one's in your owner's manual..The CURE is to find out which
injector is bleeding down your fuel rail pressure when the car is
sitting. Running a can of injector cleaner, or a few qanks of Gasohol
thru it might fix it forever. Try a Google search for flooding honda or
whatever and see if there's any better suggestions.
'Curly'
> I didn't really consider myself a newbie....but sorry for causing the
> confusion of posting in 2 groups.
>
> I broke down and took the car to a local mechanic. They ran a
> dianostic: no problems. Saw gas on the spark plugs and realized it was
> flooded. Now it's running fine.
>
> In the future, how to you fix flooding?
>
> Thanks for the help and the posts.
----------------------------
The temporary fix is to hold it to the floor and crank it till it
starts. That one's in your owner's manual..The CURE is to find out which
injector is bleeding down your fuel rail pressure when the car is
sitting. Running a can of injector cleaner, or a few qanks of Gasohol
thru it might fix it forever. Try a Google search for flooding honda or
whatever and see if there's any better suggestions.
'Curly'
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