Okay guys, I really need your help.

First off, I love the fit, but my mom really likes the Prius. Yes, I know that the pricing difference is AT LEAST 6K (IF NOT MORE).

We plan on having this car for a long time. My current car is a '96 Honda Accord LX, and so we don't believe in trading in after 3-5 years, so please do not take into account depreciation rates as we'll probably have this car forever unless it gets totaled.

So, please help me tease out what makes the fit better than the Prius, and is the savings now worth it in the long run.

Some things I already know:

FIT ADVANTAGE over PRIUS:
MAGIC SEATS
HONDA (we've never had a Toyota before)
Better Seats (I hear Prius owners complain about their bad seats)
Initial Costs

FIT DISADVANTAGE:
MILEAGE
a little smaller


Okay, My mom test drove the Fit yesterday, and she was so surprised at how little gas it took for it to go, and she likes the Prius front better than the Fit. I guess my mom's biggest thing was the hybrid, so I would like some people's input on the long term maintenance/upkeeping, and what would be the better value in the long run.

My biggest concern with the Prius is that the technology may be outdated within the next 5 years with all the new stuff currently in experimentation like the hydrogen, solar, etc. That would mean hybrid's value may not be as high as it is now (then again, if that is the case, all gas -only vehicle would be bad too) but i'll be comforted by the fact that I spent 6K less if that makes any sense.

Right now, I can get a Fit for 17.8K (hoping for it to go down as the hype for 2009 increases) and the Prius (option #2) for 24K + TTL (which would be about 25.5K, so I would venture the Fit about 8K less than the Prius.

Oh yes, if you'd like to take into account annual mileage, we drive around 10K a year, if not less. It'll probably be a lot less as the commute these next 5 years will be less than 5 miles each day.

TIA!

 

hmmm id go for an 09 either way why get an 08 when the 09 is so close and has navagation CONSIDER THIS YOUNG MAN! a prius replacement batter is about 1000 bux if i recall correctly lol have fun :p

 

something to consider: the prius will get better fuel economy, period. and if you get one with a sunroof, you can retrofit a solar panel and charge the batteries while parked, which in turn will increase the time you can spend running on electric motor, thereby saving you on gasoline cost.

typically, hybrids do not break even with gas/ diesel only counterparts until a handful of years into ownership. however, since you expect to hold onto the car for a period of time sufficient to reach that break-even point AND it's reasonable to expect that gas prices are going up pretty much for the remainder of time, the prius makes a lot of sense.

however, you may want to dig deeper into the various interior configurations of the prius. the fit does a commendable job of interior space configurations and can move a lot of stuff for its footprint.

speaking of footprint, the fit wins when it comes to parking, should that be a consideration. but if you are logging 10,000 miles of city time in a year, the prius will be way cheaper to fuel.

the fit is more fun to drive by a mile.

you'll have to get even more specific about what conditions you'll use the car.

 

well, i live in Nashville, so i'm not worried about cold weather conditions, so the heated windows from the Prius isn't gonna be used. The traffic will be kinda bad, but it's a decent 2 mile drive to work (for my mom) and back. maybe less than 10 minutes in traffic (NO HIGHWAY). On the weekends, we'd take the highway to go grocery shopping, mall, church, so traffic then shouldn't be too bad. basically, i see about 30 miles each week to drive to work, then maybe another 20 miles for leisure on the weekends. so 50 miles each week, give or take 15-20 miles. So, I'll predict between 180-250 miles each month. We use to get 10K because we would travel cross-country so much, but now, i'm settled in Nashville for the next 5-6 years (Grad school), so unless I go on a road trip, the mileage ain't gonna be piling up...

I might use to some time if I have to travel about 30 miles out of town for stuff, but that's only if the Accord is gonna be in the shop or unavailable. This new car is for my mom, and the old Accord will be mine, although I won't use it unless I have to go somewhere.

 

Like Sox stated expensive replacement parts and I understand much more expensive to maintain.

Cat :x

 

Let's weigh in the pro/cons...

Fuel Costs:
Looks like the prius will be more useful to you, fuel cost wise, because you tend to take short trips, which usually recharges the battery. You'll spend less on gas in the long with a hybrid running short trips. Also, battery isn't going to wear out fast if you're traveling only 250 miles per month unless you purposely decharge the batteries under 80% all the time.

Car/maintenance cost:
8K is a big difference. And then there's maintenance costs for the hybrid which is a pain if something goes wrong because it requires special mechanics to fix the electric motor. The fit is pretty easy to take care of. Oil change intervals for fits should be between 3,000-5000 miles. I don't know about the hybrid though, you're going to have to look it up somewhere.

Space & Transporting:
The fit obviously wins in space and transporting large items.

Performance:
Fits are fun to drive though. They take little effort to turn or change lanes. I dunno about Prius though, they look pretty stiff. Also, they're considered "midsize" which means their steering might be like the camary....ewwww! I doubt it won't be as bad though.

My experience with Toyota:
I had a 2000 Corolla VE before the fit. Beware that the interior can fall apart. The engine/components are pretty reliable. I never had a breakdown, just Mass AirFlow sensor problem that was recalled (Check Engine light problem). Seats were uncomfortable (I guess Toyota still doesn't care about that). Also, I had issues with the dealership with the bumper to bumper warranty. They didn't cover winshield damage caused by temperature stress. I had to eat up $100 after getting pulled over and ticketed. My dad's Camary never broke down either, but had some slight issues.

Also, have you considered the Civic Hybrid? It's might not be as fuel efficient as the prius, but gas milage is better than a Fit. It's all up to you now. Whatever you decide, good luck!

 

I'd double check the interior space on the Prius vs the Fit. That trunk isn't all that big since they have to stuff the batteries in it.

Also to note, if you plan on keeping the car for many many years, understand that those batteries do not last forever;IIRC typically around 100,000 miles or so and they are not cheap to replace, nor cheap to dispose of.

Also to note - if you drive an average of 12,000 miles per year. With a Prius getting 50mpg it will take 240 gallons of gas. With a manual Fit getting 35mpg it will take 242.85 gallons of gas. At the extreme of $4/gallon you're looking at spending an extra $11.40/year in gas on the Fit over the Prius. So at that rate, it will take you 526 years to even break even on the extra $6000 you paid for said Prius (not counting battery replacement and higher maintenance fees)

IMO, and many others, Hybrids are not worth it, and a poor solution to a greater problem.

 

p.s. i'm female...(Cowboy in reference to my favorite NFL team, Dallas Cowboys)

thanks for the suggestions. I think we might wait until the fall and see if the price goes even further or for the 2009.

in the meanwhile, i know it's a 5+ months wait, but i'll be thinking of the money I saved not paying insurance for 5+ months

 

Actually it will take 342.85 gallons of gas to drive 12,000 miles per year for the Fit so if gas is 4 dollars a gallon constantly for a year, it would mean the Prius driver would save $408(US) compared to the Fit driver. The Prius is actually very spacious. The passenger space is a little bigger than compact cars and although I really love the amount of cargo space on the Fit, the Prius isn't too bad. It's "trunk" space is bigger than the full size Avalon and Accord at 16.1 cubic feet (14.4 without the hidden compartment).

I don't see why people are claiming the Prius is the end all solution to all our environmental problems. It would be pretty asinine to assume that the auto industry would just stop research and continue to have automobiles powered by gas/petrol/oil (whatever =P) until there's isn't any left........unless they're in bed with the oil industry...just kidding

To the OP, I think the Fit would be a better choice as the Prius is too expensive, especially if it's going to be driven only about 12k miles...imo. But if you have any questions on the other car then I'm sure the members of Prius Chat community would be happy to answer any questions or debunk (or confirm) any myths you hear about the Prius.

 

Arisenfury, please don't bring up the battery issue without anything to back it up. Priuses CRASH at greater rates than they wear out batteries, and those few who drive enough to wear one out can find a replacement from a wrecked Prius at a low cost. Many people drive over 150k without ever replacing it.

[edit] I searched some websites and it looks like no one has ever reported having to replace a 2nd gen Prius battery yet. There are probably some people out there but considering it is a top 10 selling vehicle, the numbers are nearly insignificant.

You should really take ride comfort into account too. My mom has a Prius and I drive a Fit so I speak from experience--the Prius rides like a cushy sedan while the Fit rides like, well, a hyperactive Honda subcompact. The Toyota is not bouncy or hard at all since it's heavier and has a longer wheelbase. It's definitely a more "mature" car and basically the perfect road trip car. And the seats do not suck, unlike the Fit's.

Build quality on the Prius is absolutely perfect. We've got 70k miles on ours without a single rattle EVER. Our other Prius owning friends have had similar experiences. The ivory interior still looks new, and the paint is terrific. It's basically a maintenance free machine.

When we bought our Prius in 2005, there was a law in CT that exempted us from sales tax so we paid just $22k out the door. We paid $17k out the door for my Fit.

One of the major things that pisses me off about the Prius is the incredibly sluggish throttle response. The electric engine starts first, followed by the internal combustion engine once you add more throttle. Of course my mom (and probably yours too) is never bothered by that, but you do need to plan ahead when trying to jump into spots in traffic. It's depressing to drive after being in my Fit. In places like New York City you have to be aggressive with the gas pedal to get in and out of traffic.

My guess is your mom will be using the car for commuting and not tearing up canyons or weaving quickly through traffic. In that case the Prius is 100% the better choice. Also this may be a controversial statement, but the Prius is to me the classier car for an older person like a parent. You can show up at a really nice restaurant in a Prius and look great, but I feel ridiculous showing up to nice places in my modded Fit. I'll take the Prius out on dates sometimes.

Whenever hybrids are mentioned, someone inevitably goes through the pointless work of figuring out fuel costs to the last penny. That's not the point, many people buy Priuses for their other merits. It's also one reason why Civics and other non-distinct hybrids do not sell as well. Plus, your math is wrong anyways--you're off by 100 gallons for the Fit. I don't like Toyotas in general but I have a huge amount of respect for the Prius.

 

Guess I had one too many beers at the bar to make a 2 look like a 3, I thought it seemed kinda off.

Regardless, if the OP is planning on keeping the car as long as her Accord (12 years) then the fact of the matter is the battery issue is bound to come up. I didn't say it was fact that it was 100k miles, I said I thought I remembed it being 100k. No one has had a new Prius for 10+ years so there is no definate answer to how long the batteries will last at the long of a time, so even though there is no proof to it being a problem, there is no proof to it not being a problem and should be planned for accordingly.

 

But no one, or an insignificant number, have had to replace their batteries even at 150k. Ask around on GreenHybrid.com for more info, there are lots of high-mileage hybrids there.

 

It's not a mileage issue, but the amount of time they want to hold on to the vehicle. Batteries don't have an indefinate lifespan, even if they drive the car 1 mile a day it will still put wear on them. The main issue at hand is that they want to keep the car for at least 10 years, no one has had a Prius for 10 years so there is no concrete proof anywhere to prove that the batteries or even the whole hybrid powertrain in these cars can even hold up for 10+ years, so as a buyer looking for a long-term car they need to consider that.

 

If the hybrid powertrains have held up as New York City taxis I'd expect they would hold up in any other application. Seems ridiculous to plan 12 years in advance in case one part fails. You make it sound like the entire HSD system will fall out of the car or something! I don't buy a car thinking "Yikes, what if the clutch goes at 150k?"

Buy the car that suits you best, and don't worry yourself to death with hypotheticals. Especially not with a Prius, because it really is a proven vehicle. It's not like anyone has owned a Fit for 10+ years either.

 

thank you everyone for your replies

my biggest thing (outside of the price) for the prius, is how long before the industry moves away from hybrid? currently, I know the resale value for it is HUGE (very low depreciation), but if technology were to move in another direction, if people were to get rid of their prius, their value would depreciate VERY quickly, and maybe in 10-12 years, it would be harder and more expensive to get a prius fixed as there would be very little of them left on the road plus parts would not be readily available? if you can see what i'm saying.

i'm not saying a prius is bad, because i'm still on the fence about what to get, but my main concern is technical support when the industry finds better ways for fuel efficiencies to make the prius obsolete.

also, i know you said that the seat cushions are great, but we are not getting option #6, if we were to get a prius, it would be #2, and i've heard many prius owners complain that they can't adjust the seats, nor are the cushions very supportable (get back pains, etc). that is a huge worry, but if they are fixing it w/the '09, then it is moot.

 

Batteries in the Prius are almost a non-issue. They are utilized in a really efficient way so that they are never charged too fully nor are they deep discharged. The Prius has also been in production for 11 years now (it came out in 1997) so if anything it's proven the soundness of Toyota's design. The batteries, as one poster mentioned are tested to last at least 150000 - 200000 miles and individual cells can be replaced so you're not necessarily looking at replacing the whole pack at any point.

The real issue here is whether or not you'll really use the vehicle in a way that suits the hybrid's strong points. At 12000 miles per year, there is a potential concern if you are looking at saving money in the long term but since the Fit is so efficient in its own right, that isn't as great an isseu as it would be with other vehicles.

As for the concern that one poster mentioned with advancements in hydrogen or solar power, they won't play a role for some time. There is no cost effective way to produce hydrogen yet and there are handling issues with it (leakage can cause pretty significant depletion of the fuel supply in a relatively short time). Solar is a non-starter for cars as it stands now unless it were used in conjunction with an existing technology to help maintain a charge on a cars' existing batteries (charge your batteries while you're at the store or at work, etc...).

The Prius and Fit both have a decently small footprint so parking should be great in either one. They're both roomy and well packaged.

Neither choice is a bad one. The Fit is likely to be more fun to drive so if that plays a role in the decision then the choice would seem to be a bit simpler. Both cars are likely to last a long time and give good service.

There really is no wrong choice here (though if it were my choice to make, I'd probably give the nod to the Fit for the "fun" reason).

 

i drive a fit, my wife wants a prius.


if you do plan on doing as many city miles as you say, the prius starts to look real attractive.

plus toyota dealers will be willing to negotiate on price; dont assume that you are going to pay on a prius. i know a lot of folks who have gotten the car you want for around21-22k OUT THE DOOR. you wont be able to swing much for the fit.

but if your mom is someone who really values good handling and great steering feel, then she may prefer the fit on that alone.

thats the biggest difference i think; the regard for some sporting character. don't worry about reliability or batteries, as the prius is good at both of them.:) and the fit is good at giving decent mileage, fitting a lot of stuff in a small space, and being very fun to drive.:D


just depends on which one she prefers! the fit will always be cheaper, but you can get prius for less than what you stated. you could move down a step and forgo the package and get the new 'standard' trim, which starts out at only about 21k, and can be negotiated down further.

 

There's hundreds of thousands of Priuses out there, you should never have to worry about parts availability. We're not talking about limited production collector cars here.

 

Check the toyota warranty on the battery pack because I think they extended it to 7 years.

 

It's 8 years/100k miles on all hybrid drivetrain components. According to the faq linked, the battery's warranty may be even longer based on the emissions warranty (which I believe varies by state).

Toyota.com : Vehicles : Prius : Frequently Asked Questions