I recently lost my 1997 Civic Hatchback DX that I have had since December of 1997. To me this was damn near the perfect little HB. I need a replacement. Unfortunately, Honda in their borderline wisdom no longer wants to sell Civic Hatchbacks in the North American market. After 15 years with a 5-speed I want an automatic (Yeah, I know, I am a wimp or whatever, but I have to drive in stop-and-go traffic.)

The Civic Hatchback was great because:
1) Super reliable. True, with abt. 157,000 miles some things went wrong now and then, but they were minor.
2) Handled great.
3) Great for long trips (like central Florida to Chicago.) Tracked nicely on the Interstate (103.2 inch wheelbase)
4) Hatchback was very versatile. Could handle big screen TVs, ladders, etc.
5) Relatively quiet.
6) Great gas mileage. Never got below 30 MPG
7) Safe. Hit by a bigger car going about 45 MPH (it ran a red light) and I walked away without a scratch.
8) Quick. Not fast, but I could merge into an Interstate easily. Never had a problem passing.
9) Relatively smooth ride.

However, Honda DOES NOT SELL ANYTHING LIKE THIS IN AMERICA and does not want to.

After reading what I wrote below, it is obvious that Honda has really lost its way in the 15 years since I purchased my Civic HB. I am posting this in hope that someone will see something that I do not. I welcome the advice, opinions, and recommendations of others.

I want a reliable, practical hatchback that handles well, gets great gas mileage, is safe and quick. So go ahead, what do you think is the closest to a 1997 Civic HB DX?


Possible replacements:

Honda Fit Sport (2012): (Top Pick)
I really feel that this car is not in the same league as a 1997 Civic HB.
In my mind, this car is a step backwards from my Civic. But it is a hatchback.
Pros: hatchback, reliable, OK gas mileage
Cons: Small. Does not handle as well as the Civic (1997), noisier (maybe not the 2012s), problem with crosswinds. Does not track as nicely as the Civic did on the Interstate. Short 98.4 inch wheelbase may be behind some of this?
Seems to bounce around more on rough roads than my Civic.
Also, the interior is not as nice as a 1997 Civic HB.

Honda Insight (2012):
Pros: hatchback, reliable, closest in appearance to 1997 civic HB, great gas mileage. I think that the interior is nicer than the FIT's.
Cons: SLOW (0-60 ~12 seconds.) There is no getting around this con.

Mazda 3 Hatchback SkyActiv:
Pros: Closest to the “character” of the 1997 Civic hatchback, handles great, great gas mileage (claimed), good for long trips (nice 103.9 inch wheelbase). Seems crash worthy.
Closest to the Civic HB in ride quality.
I really liked this car except for the one big con........
Cons: Noisy plus … Reliability problems (seems to go downhill after 3-4 years) & (the WORST PART) LEGENDARY piss-poor Mazda customer support & service. The really crappy Mazda customer support is the only thing stopping me from getting this car.

Hyundai Elantra Touring:
Pros: hatchback (wagon), good handling, relatively quiet. Hyundai seem to treat their customers OK.
Cons: Reliability. Yes, I know 5/10 year warranty, but after that things seem to go downhill fast. Fuel economy.


Cars that I rejected (please excuse the excessive use of caps.):

1997-2000 Civic Hatchback or
2000-2005 Civic Hatchback
Pros: Just what I want
Cons: USED and USED-UP, usually these cars are run into the ground by wannabe fast-and-furiousers. Everyone I looked at was crap. Plus I think the HB Si version only had a manual transmission.

Toyota Matrix: the only car I could not wait to get out of during test drive.
Hyundai Accent: No proven reliability track record. No spare tire (yes, I know that I can buy one, but what else did they eliminate that I want.)
Hyundai Veloster: Not very practical. The Civic could seat four, this cannot. See spare tire above.
Any Volkswagen: had one, it was crap. Almost every VW owner I know has had expensive problems.
Volvo C30: Cool car, BUT expensive & not very reliable, only one local dealer and its service SUCKS.
Lexus CT hybrid (CT200h): Exactly what I want in a car (except for the hybrid), but TOO EXPENSIVE. Only one local dealer for service.
Kia: See Hyundai Accent above.
Nissan: makes nothing I want. Example: Versa: IMHO did not handle like the 1997 Civic
Toyota Prius: Expensive. Might as well get the Lexus (close in price)
Ford Focus: Have heard (personally) too many complaints about the auto shifted manual transmission. Ford handled this problem almost as poorly as Mazda would.
Honda Crosstour: Not as good as the Lexus CT hybrid and more expensive. What the hell is Honda thinking.
Audi & BMW: expensive & Audi has very poor dependability.

Have considered, but have not test driven:
Scion tC: low aspect ratio tires make for jittery ride, noisy, poor gas mileage. However, Scions are dependable.
Scion xD: jittery ride & noisy, but gets OK gas mileage
Scion xB: noisy & poor fuel economy
2012 Subaru Impreza: when it arrives there will be HUGE dealer markups.

 

Seriously? I myself am a huge fan of 90's Hondas/Acuras, and prior to owning my 2008 Fit I owned a 1991 Civic Si and a 1999 Integra LS, and based on those two I respond with this:

Cons:
-Small

-From the outside? Yes. Inside it destroys the Civic and Integra.

-Crosswinds?

Do I notice them now? Yes, does it make a huge difference? No.

-Tracking on interstate?

Same as above.

-Handling?

I've never had a problem with the handling ability of my Fit.
Does it handle as well as my Civic did on $4000 coilovers and summer tyres? No. Will it still be a little dynamo once I get my summer wheels/tyres on? YES!

Bouncing around?

Wat.

Maybe if you have the most sensitive bottom/back in the world...I convinced my grandparents to replace their 2002 Volvo S60/2006 Honda Odyssey (both VERY comfortable) with a 2009 Fit. They love it, if they can handle it, any one can.

Interior not as nice?

Seriously? While 90's Hondas/Acuras were outstanding ergonomically, they weren't exactly aesthetically pleasing. I've found my Fit to have a nice interior, both functionally and aesthetically.

 

Wow- did you actually test drive all those cars? Curious about reasons for your dislike of the Matrix--that was a car I had considered, but the day I went to do a test drive was horribly windy and rainy so I took that as a "sign: ;)
Why not a 2011 Subaru Impreza? save on the 2012 markup--my friend has one nice car--although you won't get as good gas mpg as a Fit.

 

Besides the Fit, the best choice is the 2102 Impreza.

I bought a new S2000 when it first came out, a new '96 Viper GTS when it first came out, a new Mercedes CLK430 Cab when it first came out, a new Audi TT Roadster when it first came out, a new '97 Boxster when it first came out...paid MSRP or less for all of them and never once paid a HUGE dealer markup, and all of these cars were far more desirable than a Subaru Impreza.

Do you really think people will be paying a HUGE markup on a Subaru? You ought to be able to put your name on a list to buy one at sticker (at most) right now. To pay over MSRP on a Subaru is complete insanity.

 

I think you became very attached to your Civic and maybe see it in a better light than others would. I'm the same way. I either like a car more and more as I own it or it doesn't stick around long. I like the Fit much better now than I did 3 1/2 years ago.

What I'm saying is...don't compare these new cars to your beloved old Civic. Compare them to eachother and pick the one you like best. I'm with Mike and would also opt for either a 2012 Fit or Impreza.

 

Also:

OP you forgot about this car:


(2012 Toyota Yaris SE 5 Door)

If I were buying a brand new econo car it'd be this one or the Fit.

 

The Toyota Yaris is ranked last (#27 of 27) total Hatchbacks reviewed by US News and World Report's car reviews. A Ford Fiesta (ranked #1) would be a far better choice.

 

I have to say, I'd buy the Yaris SE on aesthetics alone.

With an econocar I'm only buying for reliabilty, mpg and comfort, which the Yaris has in spades (as do most of the competition) but aesthetically the Yaris just destroys hte field IMO, so while the 2012 Fit is probably a hugely superior car...the aesthetics let me down.

2012 Toyota Yaris SE First Test - Motor Trend

 

In reply to Mike410b

"Bouncing around" is probably not the best description. When I drove a Fit over a brick paved road and a pothole-filled road, the Fit just did not have as settled of a ride that the Civic had. The ride was not uncomfortable, but it was more "jittery" or "shakier" (for want of better words) than the Civic.

As far as handling on the interstate or crosswinds, yes, I will probably get used to it. Heck, if I buy a Fit I will have to get used to it. However, in 15 years this is the best Honda can do? Go from a car without these problems (quirks?) to a car that has them.

As much as I hate to say it, the Mazda 3 had a smoother ride. It smoothed out the bumps while letting you know that they were there. Mazda's poor reputation for customer service and the Fit's reliability record still make me lean toward the Fit.

As far as aesthetics, I do not really care. But i find (IMHO) that the fit and finish of the '97 Civic'c interior was better than the Fit's.

 

Have you thought about restoring your HB? I know this sound nuts but if ya like it that much check into JDM resto shops. Be cheaper than a new car price tag. Just a thought. I just bought a 88 civic hb and after reading your enjoyment w/ yours I am looking forward to this car. It's a big pond out there w/ alot of dif. cars to buy I wish you Good Luck in your next purchase.
Mike :D

 

Based upon what you've said, you should definitely find another 15 year old 157,000 mile '97 Civic to buy.

If you don't particularly like the "jittery" or "shakier" ride of a brand new 2012 Fit, the smoothness of the ride, or the "fit" and "finish" of a 15 year newer car, in my opinion, perhaps you should go ahead and find another '97 Civic.

That sounds like your best option.

 

In reply to sooznd's post:

First as far as the Toyota Matrix:
1) The interior fit and finish was not very good. For example, there were gaps in the plastic panels of the dashboard.
2) The ride seemed supple, but the car was not very responsive to steering input. Turn the wheel, wait a bit, the car responds. Instead of turn the wheel and the car responds.
3) The floor in the storage section was just a hard piece of plastic. From reading posts from Matrix owners, this tends to become scratched and marred over the years.
4) As much as I said that I did not care for aesthetics in my previous reply to "mike410b," being in this car just creeped me out.

In summary, it just seemed to say: "hey, if you want a Toyota hatchback, then you take me and you like it."

As for a 2011 Impreza:
The 2012 is redesigned or heavily revised. It has much better gas mileage (claimed.) And it is supposed to be almost as quick as the 2011. If I am going to keep this car for another 10-15 years then I want to get one that will give me decent fuel economy.
Also, it seems that Subaru's quality has been slipping over the past few years. Yes, everyone tells me that their friend's Subaru is great. But quality surveys say otherwise.


In reply to MikeNSX's post (since I am on the subject:)

Yes, I have never paid over MSRP for a car either, and I have no intention of paying over MSRP for my next car. However, when a model is in short supply there are always people with more money than brains (or maybe so much money that they never have to worry about spending too much.) These people will always pay the dealer's ridiculous markup.

This is why I have yet to purchase a Fit. Dealers around here are adding $400-$1400 (yes $1400) to their asking price. There is no way in hell that I will pay this. However, as the Fit supply increases and the end of the year approaches, some of these dealers are starting to come down in price.

If you see the mansions that these dealership owners live in (some ocean front) you start to realize just how much money these guys make. The next time a salesmen starts to tell you that the dealership need these fees to keep their lights on and people employed, do a little research to see where the dealership owners live.

 

Yes, Perrenoud Fit, this did cross my mind. But the car was just too messed-up (better it than me.) It would be less expensive to buy the type of Civic that I had and restore it. However, this still would cost far more money than the car is worth.

It is still wandering though my mind.

 

Bob, having lived in Orlando, I can tell you that is part of the problem. Once you pick a car, travel to Lakeland, Daytona, or anywhere else. Just get out of Orlando metro area. Dealers in smaller towns don't have the luxury of upsetting 100 people a day knowing that 100 more will be in tomorrow.

My parents struck a crazy deal and drove home in a 2011 Fit Sport auto a few months ago. They live in Palm Beach county, which is possibly worse than Orlando. They went to Stuart, Fl and got treated fantastic.

I know the owners of two car dealerships. One in central GA and one up here. They are not rolling in dough. One is even selling off some of his personal collection to keep the dealership running. Times have changed and most of those owners living in mansions are there because no one will buy them out.

It seems you have been to too many dealerships and have gotten a sour taste for both new car dealers and the cars they sell.

For what it's worth, I shopped around quite a bit when we bought the Fit. I was shopping for myself and just couldn't find anything that made me happy. As a last ditch move, I told my wife to pick a car for her instead and I'd take hers. Every Toyota model we test drove (xB, xD, Yaris, Camry, Corolla, FJ) was an utter POS. It bewilders me how sooooo many people can be blind to fit & finish problems.

Our final two candidates came down to the WRX wagon and the Fit. I was pushing for the WRX because I was drawn to the power and awd (we have some snow each year), but my wife was steadfast on her decision of the Fit. I think she made the right choice.

 

BTW, feel free to read my review of our Fit. I think you will find that I agree with your ride and noise complaints. I am VERY picky though. Overall our Fit has been a dream to own. We drive it extremely hard...as in chase down motorcycles in "the tail of the dragon" and use it as a truck from time to time (has had a washing machine, flat panel tv, 2x4's etc inside), but it has NEVER been back to the dealer in the 3 1/2 years and 52,000 miles.

 

Sorry "sooznd." I did not answer your other question. No I did not drive all of the "cars that I rejected." These are the cars that I obtained the owners opinion and/or was a passenger:

1) Volvo C30 - liked the car but would not buy another (did not like the dealer & dealer's service)
2) Audi - liked the car, hated the reliability. Would not buy another.
3) BMW - like the car. Some would buy another BMW. Dealer's service was great.
4) Kia - most liked the car. very few would buy another.
5) Toyota Prius - almost all loved this car. would buy another. service quality was dealer dependant.
6) Ford Focus - thought it was OK. Many had trouble with the auto-shifted-manual. Did not like being told by Ford that they were not driving the car right or that the transmission need time to break-in.

 

In reply to GAFIT:

Thanks for the advice. Yes, I have started to find this out about Orlando car dealers. A few people have told me to look in the same places you are recommending. Stuart is a ways away, but I will do an internet search tonight for Honda dealers there.

I could not agree with you more about Toyota. They may still make a reliable product (for now,) but I think they are starting to ride on their reputation.

I am not saying all car dealers are rolling in dough. There are probably some that are struggling. However, I have looked into who owns the dealerships here in central Florida, and not one of them seems to be hurting. One bought an ocean front estate in Palm beach a few years ago for about 23 million. From what I have read, he is trying to sell it for about 73 million.

 

I drove and researched heavily the Focus for my Mom. The car is fantastic in every way. It drives better than anything else I have driven in its class, but I couldn't let her pull the trigger on the dry clutch auto. In the end I recommended that she either buy a Focus SE sport (that gives you the best equipment at the lowest cost) with a manual or the Fit Sport with either a manual or auto.

Thinking back to your original post and realizing you are talking auto only as your next car purchase I have to ask if you're ready for that kind of downgrade in acceleration. These 100ish whp cars with an auto are crazy slow. Yes, there are people on here that will talk about how "quick" their auto is, but facts are facts...they are over a second slower in the quarter mile. For those of you non-racers, that is over ten car lengths. To put it in laymens terms, merging onto I-4 with traffic flowing at well over the speed limit will mean WOT for quite some time.

How many miles do you drive a year? The difference between a car that gets 25mpg and an anemic 4 cylinder is negligible if you're driving 10,000 miles a year. My neighbor has a late model Accord that knocks down 30ish mpg and has plenty of power.

 

I know you mention issues with VW's....but what about a Jetta Sportwagen TDI?

Diesels are pretty bullet proof, and a couple of my friend's moms have them and have had no issue, and they get 40+ mpg all the time

 

We owned a 1999 Jetta TDI sedan and loved everything about it except the reliability. It was fantastic to drive, got amazing fuel mileage, and the paint was something you only get with a German car. However, it was one of only three cars in my entire family history of car ownership that was traded in due to being too costly to keep running. It joined the ranks of a 1976 Opel Manta and 1978 MGB to be sold due to not being reliable.

I have owned other diesels...a 1996 Chevy 6.5 turbo and 2003 Ford Superduty Powerstroke and am a huge diesel fan overall.