"Manufacturer recommended maintenance" info?
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Joined: Apr 2011
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From: Iowa, USA
"Manufacturer recommended maintenance" info?
Where can I find a detailed listing of the Honda Manufacturer's recommended Maintance intervals... NOT the DEALERs profiteering-based recommendations?
The manual seems a little vague about it. Better reference?
The manual seems a little vague about it. Better reference?
Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,661
From: Georgia
Yeah in this market it's all MM based. I think other markets have schedules for the Jazz.
From reading, observation, and anecdotes I've noted that:
From reading, observation, and anecdotes I've noted that:
The Maintenance Minder (MM) calculates service intervals for the engine and transmission based on operating conditions including revolutions and sustained operating temperatures.
Oil changes (MM A or B) are between 3,000 and 10,000 depending on driving patterns. A lot of short trips will get you in the low range. Commutes of 20minutes or more will get you in the high range. If you go more than a year, the owner's manual calls for an oil change regardless. The difference between A and B is B calls for changing the oil filter as well. Personally I change the filter each time I change the oil. When I change the oil, I also hit bushings and hinges with silicone spray (3M, not WD-40) to avoid squeaks, either suspension or doors.
A/T ATF drain/fill (MM 3), the first is over 100K and afterward the interval is shorter. The manual calls for severe service changes at 60K (mountainous slow driving) and 30K if towed. The manual is insistent on using Honda ATF fluid. This seems wise. If you want to obsess about this item, it's dirt simple to drain out 3 quarts of fluid and replace; be warned: Honda overcharges for this service. I've opted for 30K intervals, but others do it as often as oil changes. Some others need therapy.
Engine air filter (MM 2) @ about 30K. More often is not better; trapped fines actually help filter smaller particles with no reduction in mpg and an imperceptible reduction in power.
Cabin filter, when you feel like it. Mine gets smelly if I leave it in past pollen season so I change it yearly in June. Oh and the reason this filter exists is not to protect sensitive noses, but to avoid plugging the A/C evaporator with dust and other crap. Older cars with older refrigerant chemistry the evaporator fins were spaced farther apart, allowing dirt to fall off and drain with condensate. Newer refrigerant and evaporator designs have the fins very close together. It needs to be kept clean: don't leave off the cabin filter.
Wiper refills. Dirt cheap from Honda and easy to change. These are the rubber blades, not the wipers themselves. Order online from Honda or pick up at the local parts counter, they're about $5 each vs 3 times as much for new blades from the parts houses. I change with the cabin filter.
Tire rotations are up to you. I used to do it with oil changes, but this is too long, 7,500 seems about right. The wheel nuts/studs are sensitive to over tightening; this is one area that will save you money in the long run to DIY (you need a torque wrench, jack stands) rather than relying on "free" rotations. Tire shops will up-sell unneeded services while they have you trapped in their waiting room as well as causing stripped studs through over tightening (pricey to replace if you don't catch them at it).
Spark plugs (MM 4) service life is around 115K, The MM calls for new plugs around 100K along with a valve adjustment. Both these services are critical and pricey. Leaving the plugs in too long may result in coil-pack failure. Valve wear is interesting: I used to think it only resulted in noise from increase lash due to wear, but the exhaust valves actually get tighter due to the valve seats recessing a bit into the block. This occurs on the exhaust valves due to the higher temperatures (intake valves are naturally cooled by the flow of fuel and air). Reports of burned exhaust valves due to lack of adjustment crop up after 150K. Honda used to recommend valve adjustment every 30K on older cars, but they no longer do this. Unadjusted valves are a main cause of poorly running engines: power loss, rough idle, increased fuel use.
Coolant (MM 5) somewhere after 100K. Again the manual insists on Honda fluid. Why not.
The camshaft is chain driven, not belt, so it has no service interval; it's life of engine. The water pump is not buried behind a timing belt, so this is not a maintenance item either.
Hoses and drive belt are not maintenance items. Inspect regularly. I may change the drive belt and tensioner at the same time as plugs and valve adjustment, depending on cost. Aftermarket belts and tensioners are reportedly not as good as Honda parts.
The manual requires flushing brake fluid every 3 years. Brake pads are best inspected when you rotate the tires. Don't go by what the tire shop or Honda tells you; they will say they need changing when they have tens of thousands of miles left. 60K for front pads is normal. over 100K for rear shoes. (depends on driving habits of course). The front pads have audible wear sensors (if OEM, not sure about aftermarket pads. The "sensors" are simply metal tabs that start rubbing when brake material is 2mm or less) that will scream the need to replace the pads when there is 2mm of material left. Service life is 1.5mm (if memory serves) so waiting until the wear sensors wail is perfectly fine. The rotors and drums do NOT need resurfacing at the time pads and shoes are replaced, unless there are braking issues (pulsing pedal, vibration when braking and/or pulling to the left or right). Turning rotors and drums when changing pads/shoes only serves to shorten the lives of these items, unless needed. The Honda shop manual describes this with specific measurements for trueness and even wear. Brake shops love to turn rotors and drums while offering lifetime replacement guarantees on consumable brake pads as the real money is in replacing rotors and drums...
The power steering is electric, no power steering fluid to flush and change.
What else? Oh yeah, warsh it yearly whether it needs it or not. Everything else (unless I missed something, let me know) are items requiring inspection and service as needed.
Oil changes (MM A or B) are between 3,000 and 10,000 depending on driving patterns. A lot of short trips will get you in the low range. Commutes of 20minutes or more will get you in the high range. If you go more than a year, the owner's manual calls for an oil change regardless. The difference between A and B is B calls for changing the oil filter as well. Personally I change the filter each time I change the oil. When I change the oil, I also hit bushings and hinges with silicone spray (3M, not WD-40) to avoid squeaks, either suspension or doors.
A/T ATF drain/fill (MM 3), the first is over 100K and afterward the interval is shorter. The manual calls for severe service changes at 60K (mountainous slow driving) and 30K if towed. The manual is insistent on using Honda ATF fluid. This seems wise. If you want to obsess about this item, it's dirt simple to drain out 3 quarts of fluid and replace; be warned: Honda overcharges for this service. I've opted for 30K intervals, but others do it as often as oil changes. Some others need therapy.
Engine air filter (MM 2) @ about 30K. More often is not better; trapped fines actually help filter smaller particles with no reduction in mpg and an imperceptible reduction in power.
Cabin filter, when you feel like it. Mine gets smelly if I leave it in past pollen season so I change it yearly in June. Oh and the reason this filter exists is not to protect sensitive noses, but to avoid plugging the A/C evaporator with dust and other crap. Older cars with older refrigerant chemistry the evaporator fins were spaced farther apart, allowing dirt to fall off and drain with condensate. Newer refrigerant and evaporator designs have the fins very close together. It needs to be kept clean: don't leave off the cabin filter.
Wiper refills. Dirt cheap from Honda and easy to change. These are the rubber blades, not the wipers themselves. Order online from Honda or pick up at the local parts counter, they're about $5 each vs 3 times as much for new blades from the parts houses. I change with the cabin filter.
Tire rotations are up to you. I used to do it with oil changes, but this is too long, 7,500 seems about right. The wheel nuts/studs are sensitive to over tightening; this is one area that will save you money in the long run to DIY (you need a torque wrench, jack stands) rather than relying on "free" rotations. Tire shops will up-sell unneeded services while they have you trapped in their waiting room as well as causing stripped studs through over tightening (pricey to replace if you don't catch them at it).
Spark plugs (MM 4) service life is around 115K, The MM calls for new plugs around 100K along with a valve adjustment. Both these services are critical and pricey. Leaving the plugs in too long may result in coil-pack failure. Valve wear is interesting: I used to think it only resulted in noise from increase lash due to wear, but the exhaust valves actually get tighter due to the valve seats recessing a bit into the block. This occurs on the exhaust valves due to the higher temperatures (intake valves are naturally cooled by the flow of fuel and air). Reports of burned exhaust valves due to lack of adjustment crop up after 150K. Honda used to recommend valve adjustment every 30K on older cars, but they no longer do this. Unadjusted valves are a main cause of poorly running engines: power loss, rough idle, increased fuel use.
Coolant (MM 5) somewhere after 100K. Again the manual insists on Honda fluid. Why not.
The camshaft is chain driven, not belt, so it has no service interval; it's life of engine. The water pump is not buried behind a timing belt, so this is not a maintenance item either.
Hoses and drive belt are not maintenance items. Inspect regularly. I may change the drive belt and tensioner at the same time as plugs and valve adjustment, depending on cost. Aftermarket belts and tensioners are reportedly not as good as Honda parts.
The manual requires flushing brake fluid every 3 years. Brake pads are best inspected when you rotate the tires. Don't go by what the tire shop or Honda tells you; they will say they need changing when they have tens of thousands of miles left. 60K for front pads is normal. over 100K for rear shoes. (depends on driving habits of course). The front pads have audible wear sensors (if OEM, not sure about aftermarket pads. The "sensors" are simply metal tabs that start rubbing when brake material is 2mm or less) that will scream the need to replace the pads when there is 2mm of material left. Service life is 1.5mm (if memory serves) so waiting until the wear sensors wail is perfectly fine. The rotors and drums do NOT need resurfacing at the time pads and shoes are replaced, unless there are braking issues (pulsing pedal, vibration when braking and/or pulling to the left or right). Turning rotors and drums when changing pads/shoes only serves to shorten the lives of these items, unless needed. The Honda shop manual describes this with specific measurements for trueness and even wear. Brake shops love to turn rotors and drums while offering lifetime replacement guarantees on consumable brake pads as the real money is in replacing rotors and drums...
The power steering is electric, no power steering fluid to flush and change.
Last edited by Steve244; Sep 13, 2013 at 04:04 PM. Reason: added items
Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,661
From: Georgia
Regular maintenance is much simpler than on cars 40 years ago. It is cost effective and relatively easy to DIY. Check out Harbor Freight Hardware for inexpensive floor jacks and jack-stands.
Repairs to non-maintenance items are much more complex than on cars 40 years ago. Best save your money for these items.
Repairs to non-maintenance items are much more complex than on cars 40 years ago. Best save your money for these items.
yah, remember that car dealers make money on service, not so much on the sale of a car itself.
so they will tell you all sorts of bs to try to sell you unnecesarry things. like balancing tires, rotating tires when not needed, adding nitrogen to tires, alignment when it's not needed, new air and cabin filters when not needed, some 'special service package' campaign the dealer has going on, etc. dont listen to any of that crap.
i remember one time my wife took the fit in for service. the advisor was telling her she needed a list of other things to do on the car. wife called before signing the paper, i spoke to the advisor and told him just do the one thing she was in for, nothing else. mofo's.
so they will tell you all sorts of bs to try to sell you unnecesarry things. like balancing tires, rotating tires when not needed, adding nitrogen to tires, alignment when it's not needed, new air and cabin filters when not needed, some 'special service package' campaign the dealer has going on, etc. dont listen to any of that crap.
i remember one time my wife took the fit in for service. the advisor was telling her she needed a list of other things to do on the car. wife called before signing the paper, i spoke to the advisor and told him just do the one thing she was in for, nothing else. mofo's.
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 126
From: Indiana
According to online manual: severe fixed schedule (normal schedule), if you don't plan to follow MM:
- oil: 6,250 miles / 6 months ( 12,500 miles/12months)
- air filter: 18,750 miles (37,500 miles)
- inspect valve clearance 62,500 miles
- Replace Spark Plugs: 75,000 miles
- Replace engine coolant: 120,000 miles / 10 years and then 60,000 miles/ 5 years
- Replace Manual Transmission Fluid: 37,500 miles / 4 years (75,000 miles / 8 years)
- Replace Brake Fluid: 3 years
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