Ticking at idle
#21
01-27-2009, 08:33 PM
I wonder if the oil film thickness on the cam has something to do with this. The less viscous oils (5w20 etc) will leave a thinner layer when squeezed under the lifter but will still have a good enough film to prevent damage, making the rocker clearance wider and noise louder when cold (when the metals haven't expanded yet). More viscous oil will have a much thicker film before the oil thins out with temperature.
As for the rocker adjustment... man that's hard to believe it's out already. I know my civic needed adjustment every couple years but that had solid lifters. The last roller rocker Honda I took apart was a K24 that had 143,000 miles on the clock, and with them never adjusted, were at perfect factory spec. I couldn't hardly believe it. (The ticking in that case was use of Champion spark plugs; NGK cured it.)
Now to throw a wrench in it... that old civic of mine had loud LMA ticking anytime I ran conventional oil, be it 5w30, 10w30, 10w40 once even, and it ticked on valvoline synth 10w30 too. That noise was GONE when I put in mobil1 10w30. Figure that out...
As for the rocker adjustment... man that's hard to believe it's out already. I know my civic needed adjustment every couple years but that had solid lifters. The last roller rocker Honda I took apart was a K24 that had 143,000 miles on the clock, and with them never adjusted, were at perfect factory spec. I couldn't hardly believe it. (The ticking in that case was use of Champion spark plugs; NGK cured it.)
Now to throw a wrench in it... that old civic of mine had loud LMA ticking anytime I ran conventional oil, be it 5w30, 10w30, 10w40 once even, and it ticked on valvoline synth 10w30 too. That noise was GONE when I put in mobil1 10w30. Figure that out...
No way a thicker oil can quite it down. Even the 20W50 we ran in the bikes.
#22
01-28-2009, 02:47 PM
Mine does as well. It's the same sound my 94 civic made when the valve lash was within spec. I agree that we need a how write up on the valve adjustment procedure for this car.
#23
01-28-2009, 06:52 PM
I was thinking more of when the car is cold, but I agree at operating temp the type of oil makes a much greater difference than its viscosity. Synthetic doesn't shear off the cam as easily.
Now that I think about it, the only engine I've heard the tappets go silent on was that old y8 when the valves were set tight at ".006/".008 and mobil1 was in the crankcase.
STP oil treatment keeps the lifters quiet on the old Deere lawn tractor but that's like syrup in the oil. I'd never run it in a Honda myself, but it doesn't hurt that old Onan and its 20psi oil pressure relief.
Valve lash adjustment WOULD be easy but then Honda decided to throw the plenum in the way. Potlickers. That's my favorite maintenance to do because it usually has pleasantly noticeable results.
Now that I think about it, the only engine I've heard the tappets go silent on was that old y8 when the valves were set tight at ".006/".008 and mobil1 was in the crankcase.
STP oil treatment keeps the lifters quiet on the old Deere lawn tractor but that's like syrup in the oil. I'd never run it in a Honda myself, but it doesn't hurt that old Onan and its 20psi oil pressure relief.
Valve lash adjustment WOULD be easy but then Honda decided to throw the plenum in the way. Potlickers. That's my favorite maintenance to do because it usually has pleasantly noticeable results.
#25
01-30-2009, 12:39 AM
a light ticking sort of noise is normal when the engine is cold, and should disappear within a few minuets.
#26
01-30-2009, 08:31 AM
1. you cant hear magnet pulse but injectors are fast acting solenoids. What you hear is the metal to metal contact of the piston as it moves to the end of it's travel in reaction to the activation of the coil.
2. Metalurgy and cad design are so good these days that valve lash adjustments arent needed very often. Honda is one of the finest engine manufacturers in the world. As an avid motorcycle guy, maintainance schedules usually call for valve lash adjustments at 6K miles. On all my engines since the 90's, I check and have only had to make the tiniest of adjustments on one clearance one time.
3. Because of the above, if 20 people posted in this thread, I would be surprised if more than one would actually need a valve adjustment, yet many have the ticking.
#27
01-30-2009, 12:08 PM
My car has about 5k miles on it and it has ALWAYS "ticked"
I think part of the problem here is that what constitutes "ticking" is different for all of us. The average person isn't even going to notice normal engine sounds. Those of us who are a little obsessed probably fixate on every little sound and think its a problem.
I think part of the problem here is that what constitutes "ticking" is different for all of us. The average person isn't even going to notice normal engine sounds. Those of us who are a little obsessed probably fixate on every little sound and think its a problem.
#28
01-30-2009, 08:41 PM
It's not an injector noise. I can hear those.
This was much louder. Sort of reminded me of the solid lifter noise on my old 289.
It's gone now. It has to be emissions related.
I'm not worried.
This was much louder. Sort of reminded me of the solid lifter noise on my old 289.
It's gone now. It has to be emissions related.
I'm not worried.
#29
01-30-2009, 08:55 PM
Use a 1/4" metal rod to locate whether the ticking is valves or injectors. Put one end of the rod to your thumb tight against your ear and the other on the injectors in turn and on the cylinder head at each cylinder. The location of the ticking will be pronouced at their location. The ones you want to find are the ones with much louder ticking. That can be injectors but more than likely valves. And the ticking should not be pronouced at idle.
#30
02-02-2009, 03:58 AM
I run 5w-30 and have no problems. I live in cali tho so weather is pretty good. No real ticking, mine is almost silent until you start driving, then you get the familiar dash creaks and stuff, which means TURN UP THE STEREO
#31
02-02-2009, 07:59 AM
They had to adjust my valves at my second oil change (12k miles) because they had gotten pretty loud...isn't that rather early?
Whoever said it's just another thing Honda charges you for that is simply not the case because whatever your service code (A-1 or B-1 for example) includes a host of things for free including trivial things like valve adjustment. Personally I prefer service contracts...I paid $580 extra with the car for lifetime oil changes, one time use $1000 insurance deductible coverage, free annual detail, etc.
If anyone else uses Immke NW Honda in Dublin, OH they know what I'm talking about, those guys are awesome. Seriously, I f'd up my front bumper and after I replaced the top four clips ($12 bux) and it was still sagging they replaced the rest of the clips for free so it's fixed now. (my bumper was sagging 1/2" or so from a 'hump' I had slid into way too quickly...)
Whoever said it's just another thing Honda charges you for that is simply not the case because whatever your service code (A-1 or B-1 for example) includes a host of things for free including trivial things like valve adjustment. Personally I prefer service contracts...I paid $580 extra with the car for lifetime oil changes, one time use $1000 insurance deductible coverage, free annual detail, etc.
If anyone else uses Immke NW Honda in Dublin, OH they know what I'm talking about, those guys are awesome. Seriously, I f'd up my front bumper and after I replaced the top four clips ($12 bux) and it was still sagging they replaced the rest of the clips for free so it's fixed now. (my bumper was sagging 1/2" or so from a 'hump' I had slid into way too quickly...)
#32
02-02-2009, 08:09 AM
[quote=TekXoID;564675]They had to adjust my valves at my second oil change (12k miles) because they had gotten pretty loud...isn't that rather early?
Its early but not impossible. We've adjusted valve clearances on brand new Hondas right off the showroom floor but not very often, maybe twice in 20 years.
Its early but not impossible. We've adjusted valve clearances on brand new Hondas right off the showroom floor but not very often, maybe twice in 20 years.
#33
02-02-2009, 04:24 PM
it definitely sounds like valve adjustment. The old toyotas would have valve tick like crazy. Usually honda's need very little adjustment.
#37
02-13-2009, 01:44 AM
My ticking has to be something else. Maybe that EGR valve, but I would expect that to be more of a "floating" type valve (versus rapid on-off) controlled with a rapidly-pulsed solenoid. Who knows. I was at the bank the other day, it was doing its ticking, then like someone flipped the switch... silence with the motor running like a sewing machine. It was doing it again when I got home.
My old man's got a Taco with an injector that you hear before the TRD exhaust when it's idling up the driveway. $10 it fails before warranty runs out.
My old man's got a Taco with an injector that you hear before the TRD exhaust when it's idling up the driveway. $10 it fails before warranty runs out.
#39
02-17-2009, 03:32 PM
I have heard this noise intermittently the last two winters. Live in Minnesota, and it's a bit noticeable when the temps. dip into the single digits and negatives. However, when you reach operating temperature on the highway, about 170 deg F, it should quiet down quite a bit. I am assuming it's just the valves chattering a little like the previous posters have stated. It's not constant so it isn't on the top of my list of concerns.
#40
02-17-2009, 04:21 PM
I have heard this noise intermittently the last two winters. Live in Minnesota, and it's a bit noticeable when the temps. dip into the single digits and negatives. However, when you reach operating temperature on the highway, about 170 deg F, it should quiet down quite a bit. I am assuming it's just the valves chattering a little like the previous posters have stated. It's not constant so it isn't on the top of my list of concerns.
It is entirely normal for valve clearance to increase when the temperature is in single digits. The book calls for clearances to aset at less than 100 F (38C). It doesn't say but we were always instructed that the temp should not be less than 68 F (20C). Obviously, if the temperature of the valve system is less than 68F the clearance increases enough to hear tapping. However, that ta[pping should go away as the engine comes to operating temperature. The longer that takes the longer the tapping. As long as you don't thrash the engine you're OK. Thr reason for setting at 68 to 100F is because that insures the proper clearances at the realoperating valve train temp - somewhere in the 200 to 280 f range.
Out of curiosity, Suzuki has automatic valve clearances by an innovative floating bucket system so valve adjustment is unnessary even though the 1300 will rev to 13,000 rpm.. Wonder why Honda doesn;'t do that.
Last edited by mahout; 02-17-2009 at 04:26 PM.