I'm in talks with 2 shops that offer dyno services... will update soon...

 

And why do you think I don't understand this? I've been tuning imports and reading dynos for 14 years. I do apologize, I am not talking about total AUC really, but rather, in certain sections, just bringing up (poorly, apparently) the qualities of power delivery instead of looking at horsepower as the end all part of this. I don't think there is an intake out there that makes a lot more power down low, and a lot less on top though. If that power is mid vs. high end, I bet there is less than a few horsepower difference in the two GAINS.

Either way, unless you are only ripping off 1/4 miles, one or the other WILL make a difference in how fast you get around based on your driving style. Nobody squeezes every ounce of power out of their car at every moment on the street. Perhaps it's just a more mature, or realistic viewpoint, and can make me seem ignorant, but I've become more interested in driving than bragging over the years. In other words, max power of the engine is not that interesting to me, but tuning certainly is. I like to look at the total time spend driving in that rpm range when analyzing if a mod is a good one for me. If it doesn't get used often, then what's the point? I could adjust all my power down in the rpm range a little bit, and probably be faster in 95% of situations, or opportunities to pull of a fun maneuver here and there. Even on a small track it would probably net better times from smoother driving. I'm also not totally used to the high strung honda style of engine though. When I had the TDI with over 280 lbs of torque at the wheels from 2000-3800 rpm (almost the whole rev range! haha), there was pretty much no average stock car on the road that could beat me around a city block (or handle the smoke screen.) 60-80 times on tuned TDIs can rival the most powerful cars on the road. 1/8th mile times were fantastic with those too, beating cars with more horsepower.

Please read my posts a little more carefully before jumping to conclusions. Can we try and be more on the same page instead of the defeatist stuff? I even said "not ultimate horsepower." This has happened before between us. I'm just letting you know.

 

No intake, untuned, is going to make alot of gains on a NA motor. Alot is subjective obviously...3-4 hp is what we are talking about.

I feel like we're both talking about usable power (i.e. low and midrange)...SRI aren't really optimized for lows anyways since they shift the curve to the right. If there is a low/mid range loss and a gain only at the top of the curve...then this would basically be a net loss of power ( and if the area under the curve was calculated, then you might see a quantitative loss in power). You said previously that (I'm recalling from memory b/c I'm on a mobile device...so ease don't get bent if I mince your words) no intake would cause a decrease in power. I'm pointing out how this would occur from a mathematical standpoint....and a real world standpoint. Also, I've seen the dyno graphs proving everything I just summarized above in Modified Mag tech tips.

Call it defeatist if you want, I'm just trying to illustrate a point and clear up what appears to be a misconception that you have. If you misspoke in your prior post then so be it...

 

Sorry, I meant to write "a net loss of USABLE power."

 

I think we should keep in mind here that dynos are tuning tools and not a way to measure absolute power accurately. Even with correction factors and assuming that all of these tests were performed on identical dynos with the same eddy-current load generation set ups with the test vehicles in the same gear on the same fuel etc.

They will all produce unique results on each run and we shouldn't read too much into what Weapon R, HKS or whomever publishes to help sell their product.

The best you could do would be to take a couple different cars in varying stages of modification from stock through extreme, run them on the same day(s) on the same dyno in parallel using the same fuels and change only the intakes if we were to produce an accurate picture and then create some definitions for error, losses, gains and deviation.

I think some of us are giving to much credit to individual dyno sheets when we don't even have the basic atmospheric conditions for the day the dyno sheet was generated.. And different dynos read differently even with SAE and other corrections.

This is the reality of the situation.

 

until we go into a controlled environment, we can never... no one can ever give concrete conclusive numbers. controlled environment testings may be the most accurate but we do not live in a controlled environment. real world conditions have variables and these variables changes.

 

the real power curve is from 4500 to redline to me. everything below that is only used in first gear on a WOT run. If I were looking for gains, I would look there. I would even sacrifice hp below 3500 rpms for it. When I drive I rarely need to launch hard but wot passing power is essential. How often do you care how much hp you are making on cruise control?

 

Umm for cereal? Have you ever looked at a L15 dyno chart? Peak power is made between 4500 and 5500. After 5500 power falls off...

 

Personally, I would focus on 3500-5500 RPM for massaging power out of the L15a7 as this is predominantly where my engine revs when cruising around town, regardless of the gear I'm in. I'm not suggesting that <3500 and >5500 be ignored...but massaging more power out of the midrange would create the most rewarding driving experience.

 

. LOL at you. Lyon is a nice guy so he probably isn't going to own you like I would.

But to answer you question....yeah, we've seen multiple dyno charts for the L15a7. In fact, here are 4 for your viewing pleasure (and education):
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/2nd-...vs-prm-vs.html

Peak power is consistently 6-7K RPM.

 

Makita ignore gd3vbp, he seems to forget that he keeps making claims in a portion of the forum dedicated to the 2nd generation. He must not realize the engines are vastly different between gen 1 and 2.

 

Here is the dyno from the Race Craft Academy reflash. RCA stressed that this is on a COMPLETELY stock Fit. Judge for yourself:





Lyon, this dyno graph should change your mind about wanting to extend the redline further....

 

Great find! I wonder why Henry @ RCA told us in the J2534 Flash thread they made peak power at 7800rpm?

 

No wonder I keep short shifting this car a bit, even when I'm driving hard through linked turns. Cause I'm liking that torque curve! Awesome find, thanks for posting it.

 

Wait guys, I need to clarify this is a stock Fit (blue curve) with a "REFLASHED" ECU (red curve).

Henry@RCA might have been referring to gains beyond 7,000 RPM with less restrictive exhaust and intake....??

 

^^ you are right on your last statement.

The graph also explains why well boosted Fits eat autox for breakfast

 

You're probably right about that, which goes to show how restrictive much of the stock setup is. The torque curve is nice and flat for both though!

I also noticed that the fuel scale that says Lambda, even though it is in Gas scale AFRs, shows that the reflash and the stock ECU run stoich all the way till past peak torque (VEmax) and then they start diving pig rich (for NA @ WOT).

Granted we are considered high compression, but at 12.0:1AFRs beyond ~6500, they are half a point richer than Max Rich Power. Do you think this could be for margin of safety? I wonder what peak timing is on both maps?

This was on a tank of 95RON if I remember from our conversation in the other thread. the spread up top is relatively wide though, which tells me a few bolt ons and one could really reap the benefits of a wider rev-range.