No, this nonsense has gone on for 2 pages because you interpreted what was said incorrectly. Its not a matter that it wasn't communicated clearly, a 3rd grader could have read what was posted and understood.

Also here you go again, acting all big and e-tough, experience with blueprinting and building a motor. What does that have to do with Lyons stock motor? The premise of this thread, once again was should he (Lyon) increase his redline, not should he mass produce a plug-in so everyone can do it. This industry is riddled with people like you who've built maybe 1 motor, maybe 10 who think that because you've done it once that you know more than anyone else.

I've had plenty of experience inside motors to answer your question, the reality lies in that you are trying to be an e-thug for Lyon.

 

Words have meanings, if you cannot convey your thoughts clearly and concisely that is your failing.

Big and tough? E-thug? You are the only one who's even approached that level of discourse.

If you are going to question or attack my credentials expect to have yours brought under scrutiny as well.

You are purposely being obtuse at this point.

What does it have to do with Lyon's stock motor?

As has been pointed out to you several times.. that stock engine internals like the vast majority of L15s that RCA and KraftWerks re-flash, could benefit from this with the proper VE mods.

Like I said on page one, how do you know until you try?

Nowhere have I suggested Lyon could, will or even should try and mass produce these things. Do you enjoy knocking down these strawman arguments you are creating and attributing to me?

And perhaps you could allude to some of this engine experience..

Maybe one? Maybe 10?

I have 4 currently, 3 4G63s and 1 H22A, sitting at my house as we speak in various states of assembly. On my own time, in the last year alone I and a friend have built and rebuilt 8-9 engines and several cylinder heads, including a 2.2L toyota and a 3.0l NA 300zx, as well as complete overhaul on a nissan VQ in an early 2003 350z. As well as two marine engines, a 4bbl holley fed 305ci chevy in a 25' fishing rig and a 60* Mercury 3.0L V4 from a 17' run-about.

That was on my own time in the last 12 months alone.

So what have you done?

 

This will be my last post in this thread because I've lost interest. I'm going to go drink beers and enjoy myself.

But to answer your questions...

My responses were clear and concise. Never once did I say that revving an L15 to 8K would destroy it in a single go. This was eluded to by you, trying to knock me for knocking Lyon's idea.

"could benefit from this with the proper VE mods"
Key word here is proper VE mods, none of which the OP has.

"What does it have to do with Lyon's stock motor?"
This has everything to do with Lyon's stock motor, as this thread was created by him, under the premise should I (Lyon) raise my rev limit.

My engine experience is vast, never blueprinted a motor, but pulled apart and rebuilt several motors over the years, F22's, H22's, subaru blocks, chevy blocks. Whats your point?

My point, as initially pointed out, is that the L15 in stock form will not benefit from an increased rev limit, which was a direct answer to the OP's question.

 

Remember Lyon has the 2nd generation L15, it doesn't run out of breath at 5500, hell it just goes into VTEC at 5400 in stock form. Please stop confusing what motor your Fit came with to the motor in the GE. They are different beasts pretty much all together.

Maybe this point has already been brought up in the posts above mine, but I stopped reading when I came to your post.

EDIT: Just read through the remaining posts. Nothing worth reading actually. My rev-limit was raised to 7300rpm with the J's reflash. J's (Umehara-San) has been running their reflash and same engine in their Fit at many many events and have not blown an engine. RCA out of Singapore running a 2nd gen L15 with a raised rev-limit is not seeing problems on their engines. The main benefit one will see with a higher redline on the 2nd gen L15 is to keep the motor in VTEC at shift-up.

 

The Hondata reflash that is part of the KWSC high boost kit has the rev limit at 7100 and it feels like it is still climbing even when I have hit it in 4th gear... It would be senseless for me to put a performance ground camshaft in it without a higher setting on the rev limiter. I have built up air cooled Beetles that revved higher and would accelerate as strongly and spin a rod or crank bearing after 8 or 10 street races. I think 7500 rpm as a rev limit would be manageable for a well monitored and maintained engine....I've had a big block Chevy powered pickup 38 years ago that would rev to 7800 before the power played out and it was time to shift to a higher gear... I used it to deliver a morning paper route and it gave me no problems.... I hit the limiter in 3rd gear today in the Fit at what looked to be around 87 or 88 MPH... Some idiot redneck in a Dodge Ram wouldn't stop tailgating me and then after I stopped at a stop sign and made a turn he caused a bigger truck to take out some fence line to avoid him by running the stop sign and turning to try to tailgate me again.. Sorry about the tailgater tangent.

 

YouTube - 8000rpm Honda FIT 1.5 RS

 

But he never actually hits 8k. Even with the camera angle, he hits about 7500 at best.

 

Wow, just... Wow.

Thanks for fighting the good fight for me Diamond.

Never once did I even mention a word about gaining power. I could care less if it makes more power. I can worry about that when winter is over and I decide if I'm going more n2o or boost next year. In the meantime I need to keep myself busy and this could be a fun way to spend an evening or two. The beauty of it is, if there is power to be had, I will find out at that time. But first I need to find out if I can even get there.

Listen guys, we are all different. I LOVE spending my day in the garage. If I didn't have to work for a living I'd still be out there everyday playing with my fit. I own more than one car and I can afford to replace this cheap $500 engine if it lets go. I know some of you can't stand the thought of turning a wrench unless it's to put on lowering springs or rims but it brings me great pleasure regardless of the purpose. Music, six pack of Fat Tire, nobody to bother me, what could be better? I'd even have an extra block to rebuild over the next few years if this engine let's go. So to you this may seem illogical, but to me, the payoff of saying, "I thought of it, struggled with it, found a solution to it, and ultimately succeeded in prooving that it is possible" is worth the risk of a little engine damage. Now go back to looking at your Volk catalog.

tl;dr
Haters gonna hate
Haters gonna hate.

 

I was thinking that with the 10PSI would easily pull to 7500 as it is but 8000 RPM would be out of reach or not worth revving too without lift and duration improvements by way of a different cam grind.

 

Way over my head.

I finally read the rest of your earlier post. That story about the trucker reminded me about this driver today.

I was turning through an intersection (it's a bit goofy, with one street effectively making an "S" curve) on my green. I get surprised by this guy trying to blast out of a parking lot. He stops halfway through, I assumed because he realized I had the right of way. In all fairness, we were both in each others "blind" spots.

He proceeds to finish his turn after I pass, then high beams me.

I wasn't in a good mood today, so I pulled over, let him pass and then followed him a good two miles PAST my restaurant... high beaming him ALL THE WAY.

Eventually he turned, then I kept going straight for about a block, used the side street to turn around, and went back to work.

And you know what the worst part was? He was driving a car for the nearby driving "school"!!!!! OMG, is this what they teach?!?

I wish I could say I got some satisfaction from that... but not really. It bugs me that this guy would high beam me, when he should know that he's the one making the dangerous move.

 

Hey GD3VBP and all the rest of you. You can pretty much ignore whatever DiamondStarMonster post on this forum.
He is not here to provide information, but to show you
his vast knowledge, insult other posters and to argue minor points.
He uses debate team tactics to deviate and misdirect.
He is what is called a Troll in some forums, which is a guy who loves to insult and harass others who are trying to provide information.
Happened to me a few weeks back and I reacted wrongly and played his game.

Don't do it. Ignore him.

And now a lesson in correct usage for all of you. (Sorry, the ole professor keeps popping to the surface).

RPM stands for Revolutions per Minute. Note the "S" in revolutions.
That makes it mean more than 1 revolution per minute. Saying, or writing
RPM's makes it meaningless. Like maybe Revolutions per Minutes?
The plural is already in there. No need to add it again.

I see this all over automotive writing and hear it from the announcers announcing NASCAR races.

Everytime I think "can these people know what they are talking or writing about when they can't seem to grasp what RPM means"?

Just my rant.

Drives me crazy.

 

If thats what lets you guys sleep at night by all means ignore me

Don't bother trying to learn or anything.

The OP I'm sure doesn't feel that way nor the couple dozen PMs from people I have never interacted with that I received last night in support of my "debate" with you morons.

If I am using "debate team tactics" that means I am deconstructing your argument, ergo, your argument sucked.

If that is trolling, perhaps you should never venture into a private tuning forum, or a place like NABR where everyone is like me or *gasp* even meaner to provincial idiots like you two.

Find something factually wrong with anything I said or you can go EABOD.

Sorry about your bruised egos fellas.

Lyon keep up the good work.

 

Why do I need to look at a Volk catalog? I've already had a set of Volks.

I guess I'd rather buy quality parts that improve the car than slowly destroy the car.

IB4lyonblowsanengine


and wow you got pm's yesterday woo! I get pm's about my car I sold 1 year ago from people asking how they can replicate it. I don't brag about it (until right now)

 

The last post by DiamondStarMonsters proves every point I made.

Nuff said.

 

And it looks like this is the actual dyno from the RCA reflash, which completely contradicts what Henry @ RCA posted about making peak power at 7800rpm.

Thanks to blackndecker:


So there we have it, in stock trim L15A7 (not the A1) without cams or I/H/E there will not be any significant gains. Not exactly a shocker...

But again, how many people with a completely stock unmodded Fit would drop $700 on a flash that requires sending your ECU overseas.

The whole point I was stressing all along, was for the people who drop $2k in bolt ons, or install a turbo/supercharger/nitrous an extended redline will allow them to take full advantage of that.

 

If it makes you feel better, you go with that.

Pretend I provide no info or help, pretend you didn't make a fool of yourself in the thread you are referencing.

Just like like the fuel economy/engine break-in debate and how you thoroughly demonstrated that don't understand Ethanol AFRs or the basic concept of Nernst Cell lambda output either because I needed to explain that for you as well.

Keep being bitter, spiteful and wrong, it suits you. If you can find anything factually incorrect with what I post, have at.

I'm not going anywhere, the vast majority of the community is cool, but there are always going to be obstinate contrarian folks like you on any forum.

 

So where have you, and where can we find replacement L15 engines for $500?

 

2009
Engine
Honda Fit(1.5L, 4 CYL, VIN 3 6TH DIGIT), AT $W6762$675LKQ - Smart Parts USA-WI(Hustisford) E-mail 1-800-349-58502009
Engine
Honda Fit35k miles35,000AR224P$650East Coast Auto Source VARA USA-VA(Moneta) Request_Quote 1-800-869-0655 Request_Insurance_Quote
</B>2009
Engine
Honda FitT-92855 4CYL,16K,TESTED,6 MONTH WARR16,095A7156$600.03A Plus Auto Parts USA-NY(Lindenhurst) E-mail 888-821-7003 / 631-226-05802009
Engine
Honda Fit1.5 AOD 08/08 FWD CHECK WHEN O 0K00020$600Dix Automotive Recyclers USA-MI(Lincoln-Park) Request_Quote 1-800-851-4350 Request_Insurance_Quote
</B>2009
Engine
Honda FitRUNS EXC, 2K, ATOD,1.5,SPORT 091896$550Leesville Auto Wreckers, Inc. -PRP USA-NJ(Rahway) E-mail 1-888-879-55732009
Engine
Honda FitTURNS,2K,1.5,ATOD, 092592$550Leesville Auto Wreckers, Inc. -PRP USA-NJ(Rahway) E-mail 1-888-879-55732009
Engine
Honda Fit14K,1.5L,AT,RUNS EXC 100652$500Leesville Auto Wreckers, Inc. -PRP USA-NJ(Rahway) E-mail 1-888-879-5573



Salvage yards are great because the prices are completely negotiable. If I call, say I'll pay cash and have it off their hands by the end of the day I can usually talk them down $100-$200. Offer to let them keep the things you already have, i.e. water pump, Idler pulley, valve cover, intake manifold, alternator, etc. etc. and you can drive the price even lower. There is no demand for these engines.

 

I can see clearly that problem is that we take pride in different things. I take no pride in purchasing an aftermarket part that requires no thought or risk in installation. You do, which is great. That will give the aftermarket some faith in the idea that making parts for the fit will be profitable for them and perhaps they will be driven to create parts that simply can't be completed DIY. But I take pride in taking risks, coming up with unique ideas and solutions, and overcoming challenges in design. I would rather make a DIY intake that makes 1hp than buy an intake from a manufacturer that makes 5hp. This is good too because without risk takers and DIYs we would all just be clones purchasing volk rims, buddy club coilovers, PRM intakes, hks exhausts, etc. So I understand that you will probably never see the value in what I strive to do, but please understand that I will never have respect for what you do either unless you actually have to put that brain of yours to work for something other than buying products that have already been tested for you.

To give a specific example:

Say there are two fits in front of me. Both seem to be identical 09 MT sports, but 1 is actually a well done AT to MT swap. You would probably make some snide comment like, "What's the point in that? What an idiot, he should have just bought an MT to begin with" then I would expect you to attempt to validate your argument by saying something like, "That MT swap isn't going to last like the stock MT will because of the [insert nonsensical argument here - i.e. mating a different trans with that AT engine will cause increased syncro wear]" If I looked at that same situation I would be very impressed by the MT Swap. I would see it as a testament to the ability and dedication of the owner to his platform.

All of you demonstrate the ability to plant your flagpost in the ground, but it upsets me that some of you are neither willing, eager, nor able to move it under any circumstances.

Do you see what Diamond did here:
This is called 'being rational'. When new data appears, he creates a revised, accurate, and logical conclusion based upon that data. This is the prerequisite for the scientific method, a basic DIY, and civilization as we know it - not some fancy debate trick. You may live in a societal bubble where you are allowed to be, and maybe even respected for being, irrational but don't expect the rest of us to give a flying F*&# about your opinion if you don't have some sort of logic/data to back it up. Even if your opinion was correct to begin with, it is irrelevent if you could not back it up with facts.

And whats with the negative rep gd3vp? Even after you have directly insulted me I did not do the same to you. I have been trying o so very hard to leave a bridge for you to cross but frankly I am beginning to doubt it is worth the effort.


tl;dr
Built>Bought

 

Bingo.

And occasionally motors pop when you push new ideas. We have a whole dedicated to thisin a buddies garage.. Good to know we can get a new L15 for less than a grand! So I may just buy that one in the link from the Small Parts guys in WI. Thanks for doing the footwork for me!



Melted valves, pretzel shaped conrods, pistons that are now ashtrays, block windows.. a couple destroyed clutch discs, differentials, cv shafts... It is part of the process. There is no shame in that.

We are to the point where going from this:



To this:



To running and base tuning:



In just a couple of hours.

I even do my own headwork, here is a shot from the one I am currently about 3/4 of the way through:



Hell I have 3 back up longblocks for my (soon to be 10pt caged) Laser that are all in various states of rebuilding at the moment.




But I also spray water/alky mix on top of toluene and pump gas @ 30psi+ through a 59mm turbo in a street legal standing mile car. So I guess we are just eccentrics, Lyon.

Sometimes when you have complex systems, and something like a fuel pump clogs because of something nasty in an old tank becoming dislodged or an injector plug comes off and things go boom.

Not everyone is content with buying kits and slapping stickers all over the car.

For those that are content with that, there is nothing wrong with it what so ever. We just have a different way of going about things.