My 2011 Honda Fit "Severe Service" journal...
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Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 218
From: New York, New York
As for the brakes, the first time I had them replaced the squeakers were going off. I looked at the pads from the outside looking in with a flashlight and it didnt seem there was much left. I didnt tell anything to the Honda dealership when I took it in and the service advisor came up to me to tell me the pads were no good.
The second time when was when I had the tires replaced at a trusted independent shop. He called me and told me the brakes were down to less than 10% although I didnt here the squeakers go off. I inspected it and again the brakes were almost there.
My driving includes multiple stops...sometimes 10 or more during my typical day around the NYC area in traffic which is oftentimes stop and go.
I went to the Honda dealership today with my coupons and oil. I told him I wanted an inspection, an oil change (with my Honda fully synthetic oil) and tire rotation. The bill came out to $37 which is the lowest to date. The service advisor told me that I needed my air filter changed which would cost about $45 (and I was just over there in the parts department beforehand picking one up for $26 so I can change myself). He also pointed out that I needed to change the transmission fluid ever 30,000 miles at about $100 per change.
I looked in the manual and consulted online. The change per Honda recommendations is really 60,000 miles and than every 30,000 miles. That is when the "3" light comes on. However, I read a thread which convinced me we should probably be changing our fluid at 20,000 miles.
When to change replace Honda Fit transmission fluid - Honda-Tech
Honda doesnt have a tranny filter and doesnt allow for flushes. While the auto transmission holds 6.5 quarts, only 2.5 comes out on the change. The fluid itself has been known to break down before 60,000 miles and there have been a few transmission failures.
In the above Honda tech thread, he had a point. $20 for transmission fluid is cheap insurance. So I went to the Bernardi Honda website and loaded up with 6 quarts of Auto Trans fluid (the change to be performed at the independent mechanic, not the dealership), 6 quarts of full synthetic, a cabin air filter and a gallon jug of coolant. That should be good enough for the next 2 changes.
From this point forward, I will be changing the transmission fluid at 20,000 mile intervals. The dealership in this situation was probably giving good advice, but I will not be paying $100 so they can drain out 2.5 quarts of fluid and replace.
Sometimes going to the dealership is good for some things. I would have never found out about the transmission if they didnt point it out and I didnt take the time to do the research. The dealership does a comprehensive check over the vehicle which is something my independent mechanic may not do.
The second time when was when I had the tires replaced at a trusted independent shop. He called me and told me the brakes were down to less than 10% although I didnt here the squeakers go off. I inspected it and again the brakes were almost there.
My driving includes multiple stops...sometimes 10 or more during my typical day around the NYC area in traffic which is oftentimes stop and go.
I went to the Honda dealership today with my coupons and oil. I told him I wanted an inspection, an oil change (with my Honda fully synthetic oil) and tire rotation. The bill came out to $37 which is the lowest to date. The service advisor told me that I needed my air filter changed which would cost about $45 (and I was just over there in the parts department beforehand picking one up for $26 so I can change myself). He also pointed out that I needed to change the transmission fluid ever 30,000 miles at about $100 per change.
I looked in the manual and consulted online. The change per Honda recommendations is really 60,000 miles and than every 30,000 miles. That is when the "3" light comes on. However, I read a thread which convinced me we should probably be changing our fluid at 20,000 miles.
When to change replace Honda Fit transmission fluid - Honda-Tech
Honda doesnt have a tranny filter and doesnt allow for flushes. While the auto transmission holds 6.5 quarts, only 2.5 comes out on the change. The fluid itself has been known to break down before 60,000 miles and there have been a few transmission failures.
In the above Honda tech thread, he had a point. $20 for transmission fluid is cheap insurance. So I went to the Bernardi Honda website and loaded up with 6 quarts of Auto Trans fluid (the change to be performed at the independent mechanic, not the dealership), 6 quarts of full synthetic, a cabin air filter and a gallon jug of coolant. That should be good enough for the next 2 changes.
From this point forward, I will be changing the transmission fluid at 20,000 mile intervals. The dealership in this situation was probably giving good advice, but I will not be paying $100 so they can drain out 2.5 quarts of fluid and replace.
Sometimes going to the dealership is good for some things. I would have never found out about the transmission if they didnt point it out and I didnt take the time to do the research. The dealership does a comprehensive check over the vehicle which is something my independent mechanic may not do.
Last edited by SevereService; Jan 9, 2012 at 05:43 PM.
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Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 218
From: New York, New York
I did some searches on the internet to clarify what "flush" means exactly. I found a few notices which appeared in a "Honda Service News" newsletter which is sent to the service departments. There probably exists more bulletins somewhere at the service department which we dont have access to.
Basically, Honda does not support using an aftermarket flush machine. Their idea of "flush" is drain, refill, drive for a little bit and than repeat. The below procedures do not state how many times to perform the procedure. I found an old owners manual section which states to do the drain and refill 4 times which equates to about 10 quarts of fluid or about $60 if buying mailorder fluid or $80 going right to the dealer....fluid alone. However, I did not see this procedure listed in my 2011 Honda Fit Owner's Manual and I imagine the dealership or any indepedent service mechanic would just drain& refill.
A mechanic doesnt have the time to drain, refill, drive your car around and repeat the process. At best, they will probably shift the gears around and then refill. This is why the cost for a "flush" that I found on the internet costs about $150.
I also did find a few articles on the internet in relation to transmission problems for Hondas. It seems the problems start happening around 75-100k miles. I noticed in 2011 Honda started stipulating a new transmission fluid which might help prevent these past transmission problems.
So, for maximum durability, you are probably best having the auto transmission fluid changed every 30,000 miles instead of the 60,000 miles which is in the various manuals and when the "3" pops up on your maintenance minder. There is one guy I found on the internet who appears very savvy and does his at 20,000 miles. When you do change the fluid, you can pay for either a drain and refill or a "flush". The "flush" will cost about $100-$150 because of the amount of fluid and time involved in draining/refilling 3-4 times.
A drain&refill will only take out 40% of the transmission oil. The transmission case holds about 6.18 quarts per manual amd the drain&fill will take out 2.6 quarts. So if you drain, refill, drive and drain refill the next day than you will have 24% of the old fluid left in theory. If you drain, refill, drive 3 times than only 9% of the old fluid is left. If you do it 4 times as per the old procedure than only 4% of the fluid is left.
So by using the 20,000 drain and refill once method, by 60,000 miles you have 9% of the original fluid still in the transmission. If you use the 30,000 miles method than you will 24% left. If you use the 15000 mile rule than it will be 3%.
So what will I do and what should you do? The normal maintenance schedule is every 60k and then every 30k thereafter. I would go ahead and cut that schedule in half. I would do it every 30k and than every 15k thereafter. I would do a "flush" which is 3-4 times drain/fill every 45-60k miles. Something like this...
30k flush, 3-4 times drain&fill
45k drain&fill
60k flush, 3-4 times drain&fill
75k drain and fill
100k flush, 3-4 times drain&fill
115k drain&fill
etc
Honda Transmission Problems Seem to Persist - NYTimes.com
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...PElL9YyZBkITWw
Reference Number(s): HSN0206-07, Date of Issue: February 1, 2006HONDA: All Models
CATEGORY: Honda Service News
APPLIES TO:All Models
Related Ref Number(s): HSN0206-07
ARTICLE BEGINNING
SERVICE INFORMATION
In Honda vehicles, the transmission, as well as the systems that handle lubrication, cooling, fuel, and power steering, are designed to give thousands of miles of trouble-free service if you follow
the maintenance schedule to the letter. Flush systems are a popular aftermarket offering these days. These products look impressive and
make lots of claims, but American Honda strongly recommends you avoid using them on any Honda vehicle. Here’s why:
The maintenance schedule neither requires nor approves of aftermarket • flush systems.
• Flush systems take time to do; this adds to your service customer’s wait time.
• Flush systems haven’t demonstrated an improvement in vehicle performance or reliability.
Flush systems using solvents may leave solvent in the system you’re flushing. This will
dilute the fluid or lubricant and degrade its performance.
•
Flush systems using filters can filter out vital additives and degrade the fluid’s or lubricant’s
performance. This is particularly true for coolant.
•
• Any damage caused by flush systems isn’t covered by warranty.
Bulletin 2: Check Out the Latest Word on A/T Flushing Service News
CHECK OUT THE LATEST WORD ON A/T FLUSHING
SERVICE NEWS
Reference Number(s): 08010A, Date of Issue: January 1, 2008
Affected Models:General Information
Related Ref Number(s): 08010A
ARTICLE BEGINNING
SERVICE INFORMATION
Some A/T repair procedures call for flushing the trans using Honda Genuine ATF-Z1 (and no
substitutes). Problem is, where do you find the info to do that? It’s
you do an ISIS search, you’ll find a few ServiceNews articles on this subject, but they’re rather dated, and none of them say the same thing.
Even the most recent one (see “Revised A/T Flushing
Procedure” in the December ’00 issue) still mentions that old work horse-the PGM Tester-which we stopped supporting when the HDS first came on the scene.
NOTE:
trans with Honda Genuine ATF-Z1. Don’t confuse it with aftermarket
flush systems. American Honda still strongly recommends that you
avoid using them on any Honda vehicle.
The original procedure was written for simpler A/Ts that readily upshifted when you ran the vehicle on a lift. But A/Ts have come a long way since then, and most of the newer ones balk at shifting past 2nd gear when on a lift, unless you work the shift lever a certain way.
In light of all this, we thought it was high time that the A/T flushing procedure got a facelift. So here’s the latest word on flushing that works for all A/Ts:
1. Set the parking brake, and raise the vehicle on a lift.
Drain the trans, and refill it with Honda Genuine ATF-Z1. Refer to the applicable S/M or to
ISIS for details.
2.
3. Start the engine, shift into Drive, and release the parking brake.
4. Push down on the accelerator pedal to raise the vehicle speed to
• If the trans shifts past 2nd gear, go to step 5.
If the trans
from Drive to Neutral and back to Drive. Then go to step 5.
•
Make sure that the trans shifts through all the forward gears and goes into torque converter
lockup.
5.
Let off the accelerator pedal, and press the brake pedal to drop the vehicle speed to zero.
Shift into Reverse and then into Neutral.
6.
7. Shift into Drive, and repeat steps 4 thru 6
8. Set the parking brake, and repeat steps 2 thru 6
10. Refill the A/T with ATF-Z1.
Basically, Honda does not support using an aftermarket flush machine. Their idea of "flush" is drain, refill, drive for a little bit and than repeat. The below procedures do not state how many times to perform the procedure. I found an old owners manual section which states to do the drain and refill 4 times which equates to about 10 quarts of fluid or about $60 if buying mailorder fluid or $80 going right to the dealer....fluid alone. However, I did not see this procedure listed in my 2011 Honda Fit Owner's Manual and I imagine the dealership or any indepedent service mechanic would just drain& refill.
A mechanic doesnt have the time to drain, refill, drive your car around and repeat the process. At best, they will probably shift the gears around and then refill. This is why the cost for a "flush" that I found on the internet costs about $150.
I also did find a few articles on the internet in relation to transmission problems for Hondas. It seems the problems start happening around 75-100k miles. I noticed in 2011 Honda started stipulating a new transmission fluid which might help prevent these past transmission problems.
So, for maximum durability, you are probably best having the auto transmission fluid changed every 30,000 miles instead of the 60,000 miles which is in the various manuals and when the "3" pops up on your maintenance minder. There is one guy I found on the internet who appears very savvy and does his at 20,000 miles. When you do change the fluid, you can pay for either a drain and refill or a "flush". The "flush" will cost about $100-$150 because of the amount of fluid and time involved in draining/refilling 3-4 times.
A drain&refill will only take out 40% of the transmission oil. The transmission case holds about 6.18 quarts per manual amd the drain&fill will take out 2.6 quarts. So if you drain, refill, drive and drain refill the next day than you will have 24% of the old fluid left in theory. If you drain, refill, drive 3 times than only 9% of the old fluid is left. If you do it 4 times as per the old procedure than only 4% of the fluid is left.
So by using the 20,000 drain and refill once method, by 60,000 miles you have 9% of the original fluid still in the transmission. If you use the 30,000 miles method than you will 24% left. If you use the 15000 mile rule than it will be 3%.
So what will I do and what should you do? The normal maintenance schedule is every 60k and then every 30k thereafter. I would go ahead and cut that schedule in half. I would do it every 30k and than every 15k thereafter. I would do a "flush" which is 3-4 times drain/fill every 45-60k miles. Something like this...
30k flush, 3-4 times drain&fill
45k drain&fill
60k flush, 3-4 times drain&fill
75k drain and fill
100k flush, 3-4 times drain&fill
115k drain&fill
etc
Honda Transmission Problems Seem to Persist - NYTimes.com
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...PElL9YyZBkITWw
Reference Number(s): HSN0206-07, Date of Issue: February 1, 2006HONDA: All Models
CATEGORY: Honda Service News
APPLIES TO:All Models
Related Ref Number(s): HSN0206-07
ARTICLE BEGINNING
SERVICE INFORMATION
In Honda vehicles, the transmission, as well as the systems that handle lubrication, cooling, fuel, and power steering, are designed to give thousands of miles of trouble-free service if you follow
the maintenance schedule to the letter. Flush systems are a popular aftermarket offering these days. These products look impressive and
make lots of claims, but American Honda strongly recommends you avoid using them on any Honda vehicle. Here’s why:
The maintenance schedule neither requires nor approves of aftermarket • flush systems.
• Flush systems take time to do; this adds to your service customer’s wait time.
• Flush systems haven’t demonstrated an improvement in vehicle performance or reliability.
Flush systems using solvents may leave solvent in the system you’re flushing. This will
dilute the fluid or lubricant and degrade its performance.
•
Flush systems using filters can filter out vital additives and degrade the fluid’s or lubricant’s
performance. This is particularly true for coolant.
•
• Any damage caused by flush systems isn’t covered by warranty.
Bulletin 2: Check Out the Latest Word on A/T Flushing Service News
CHECK OUT THE LATEST WORD ON A/T FLUSHING
SERVICE NEWS
Reference Number(s): 08010A, Date of Issue: January 1, 2008
Affected Models:General Information
Related Ref Number(s): 08010A
ARTICLE BEGINNING
SERVICE INFORMATION
Some A/T repair procedures call for flushing the trans using Honda Genuine ATF-Z1 (and no
substitutes). Problem is, where do you find the info to do that? It’s
you do an ISIS search, you’ll find a few ServiceNews articles on this subject, but they’re rather dated, and none of them say the same thing.
Even the most recent one (see “Revised A/T Flushing
Procedure” in the December ’00 issue) still mentions that old work horse-the PGM Tester-which we stopped supporting when the HDS first came on the scene.
NOTE:
trans with Honda Genuine ATF-Z1. Don’t confuse it with aftermarket
flush systems. American Honda still strongly recommends that you
avoid using them on any Honda vehicle.
The original procedure was written for simpler A/Ts that readily upshifted when you ran the vehicle on a lift. But A/Ts have come a long way since then, and most of the newer ones balk at shifting past 2nd gear when on a lift, unless you work the shift lever a certain way.
In light of all this, we thought it was high time that the A/T flushing procedure got a facelift. So here’s the latest word on flushing that works for all A/Ts:
1. Set the parking brake, and raise the vehicle on a lift.
Drain the trans, and refill it with Honda Genuine ATF-Z1. Refer to the applicable S/M or to
ISIS for details.
2.
3. Start the engine, shift into Drive, and release the parking brake.
4. Push down on the accelerator pedal to raise the vehicle speed to
• If the trans shifts past 2nd gear, go to step 5.
If the trans
from Drive to Neutral and back to Drive. Then go to step 5.
•
Make sure that the trans shifts through all the forward gears and goes into torque converter
lockup.
5.
Let off the accelerator pedal, and press the brake pedal to drop the vehicle speed to zero.
Shift into Reverse and then into Neutral.
6.
7. Shift into Drive, and repeat steps 4 thru 6
8. Set the parking brake, and repeat steps 2 thru 6
10. Refill the A/T with ATF-Z1.
Last edited by SevereService; Jan 10, 2012 at 06:07 AM.
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 218
From: New York, New York
Let me temper my above post with the following:
- The transmission problems reported in the New York Times happened around 2004 on select Honda vehicles with a number of people reporting the problems. The majority of Honda owners did not report problems, it was a handful of people.
- The transmission fluid formula was changed in 2011. The newer formula might be more durable.
- The problems might have been fixed by now.
- We are assuming that if there are problems than a sooner transmission fluid change will fix it which might or might not be the case.
- We dont know how the owners who had problems maintained the car. Do you think they changed the fluid at 60k per the maintenance guidelines or just kept going. If they did change it, was it just a drain&fill or flush? The majority of people do not religiously maintain their cars so I am guessing that part of the problem might be a lack of maintenance.
In any event, its a good idea to get the fluid changed sooner than 60k. Im guessing a good rule of thumb is by cutting the original maintenance formula in half. The original formula is every 60k than every 30k after that. I would also recommend doing a true "flush" every 30-60k miles. A drain&fill will only take out 40% of the trans fluid whereas a manual flush will take out 97%.
Here is a good article on ATF fluid breakdown. For someone like myself who does a lot of stop&go driving than I have to be very aware of the ATF fluid condition.
http://autos.yahoo.com/maintain/repa...ques123_0.html
- The transmission problems reported in the New York Times happened around 2004 on select Honda vehicles with a number of people reporting the problems. The majority of Honda owners did not report problems, it was a handful of people.
- The transmission fluid formula was changed in 2011. The newer formula might be more durable.
- The problems might have been fixed by now.
- We are assuming that if there are problems than a sooner transmission fluid change will fix it which might or might not be the case.
- We dont know how the owners who had problems maintained the car. Do you think they changed the fluid at 60k per the maintenance guidelines or just kept going. If they did change it, was it just a drain&fill or flush? The majority of people do not religiously maintain their cars so I am guessing that part of the problem might be a lack of maintenance.
In any event, its a good idea to get the fluid changed sooner than 60k. Im guessing a good rule of thumb is by cutting the original maintenance formula in half. The original formula is every 60k than every 30k after that. I would also recommend doing a true "flush" every 30-60k miles. A drain&fill will only take out 40% of the trans fluid whereas a manual flush will take out 97%.
Here is a good article on ATF fluid breakdown. For someone like myself who does a lot of stop&go driving than I have to be very aware of the ATF fluid condition.
http://autos.yahoo.com/maintain/repa...ques123_0.html
Last edited by SevereService; Jan 10, 2012 at 04:52 AM.
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 218
From: New York, New York
Just a final update on the Honda Automatic Transmission Fluid. I did some research and googled my heart out. The newer formulation, the DW1, is either partially or fully synthetic. In any event, it is different and more durable than the Z1 fluid mandated in pre-2011 vehicles. However, I dont want this vehicle having transmission problems and so I will just cut the maintenance time in half anyway just in case.
I've had many cars in the past and as the mileage goes up the chances of problems goes up. I truely want this car to last so that is why I am being so anal about the maintenance in every way possible.
So my maintenance schedule for the transmission will be the following:
30k flush, 3-4 times drain&fill
45k drain&fill
60k flush, 3-4 times drain&fill
75k drain and fill
100k flush, 3-4 times drain&fill
115k drain&fill
etc
I've had many cars in the past and as the mileage goes up the chances of problems goes up. I truely want this car to last so that is why I am being so anal about the maintenance in every way possible.
So my maintenance schedule for the transmission will be the following:
30k flush, 3-4 times drain&fill
45k drain&fill
60k flush, 3-4 times drain&fill
75k drain and fill
100k flush, 3-4 times drain&fill
115k drain&fill
etc
Last edited by SevereService; Jan 10, 2012 at 06:07 AM.
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 218
From: New York, New York
I checked the owner's manual and it uses the words "Replace" and "Change" when it talks about transmission fluid. It does not say "Flush" or "Drain and Fill" leaving us to guess the real meaning of "Replace" and "Change". When they say "replace" I get the feeling that they mean to get rid of all the fluid and not just a "drain and fill".
I know in Honda owners manuals some years back it did describe the flush procedure which stated to drain and fill 4 times which would leave only 3% of the original fluid in theory.
Probably Honda's legal department is being intentionally vague in the documentation for some reason. If they talk about "flush" than someone is going to use an aftermarket flush machine which might damage the transmission. On the other hand, if they say drain and fill than someone is going to leave just enough old fluid in there to damage the transmission. So they just leave it to your imagination what "replace" and "change" mean. Honda goes into great detail in other areas of the book even showing and describing the hidden fill plug on the top of the transmission.
One drain and fill will leave 3.6 quarts of old fluid in there. 4 drain and fills will leave only .18 quarts in there. That is a substantial difference. I can imagine someone misinterpreting the owner's manual and leaving behind 3.6 quarts of burnt transmission fluid. This might have caused the problems with the Honda transmissions in the past where people were simply just draining and filling leaving behind so much old fluid that it damaged the transmission. Honda probably switched to the DW1 synthetic stuff so that wouldnt be as much of a problem.
Well, I have 10 quarts of DW-1 on the way from Bernardi Parts and so I have decided to do a 4 drain&fill flush every 30,000 miles. In theory, that should leave behind only 3% of the old fluid.
I know in Honda owners manuals some years back it did describe the flush procedure which stated to drain and fill 4 times which would leave only 3% of the original fluid in theory.
Probably Honda's legal department is being intentionally vague in the documentation for some reason. If they talk about "flush" than someone is going to use an aftermarket flush machine which might damage the transmission. On the other hand, if they say drain and fill than someone is going to leave just enough old fluid in there to damage the transmission. So they just leave it to your imagination what "replace" and "change" mean. Honda goes into great detail in other areas of the book even showing and describing the hidden fill plug on the top of the transmission.
One drain and fill will leave 3.6 quarts of old fluid in there. 4 drain and fills will leave only .18 quarts in there. That is a substantial difference. I can imagine someone misinterpreting the owner's manual and leaving behind 3.6 quarts of burnt transmission fluid. This might have caused the problems with the Honda transmissions in the past where people were simply just draining and filling leaving behind so much old fluid that it damaged the transmission. Honda probably switched to the DW1 synthetic stuff so that wouldnt be as much of a problem.
Well, I have 10 quarts of DW-1 on the way from Bernardi Parts and so I have decided to do a 4 drain&fill flush every 30,000 miles. In theory, that should leave behind only 3% of the old fluid.
Last edited by SevereService; Jan 10, 2012 at 02:37 PM.
Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,417
From: Capital Distric New York
The Fit A/T has a transmission cooler. It's one reason, when draining, all the fluid is not removed, along with what's left behind in the torque converter. Flushing the transmission is not recommended, although power flushing a new/reconditioned cooler is. It's a totally separate operation, free of the transmission.
Power flushing today's Fit transmissions can/will damage them.
I see no value in rewriting the Honda Service Manual or in your desire to waist time/money/transmission fluid, but you are on your own course and I continue to watch with interest_
K_C_
Power flushing today's Fit transmissions can/will damage them.
I see no value in rewriting the Honda Service Manual or in your desire to waist time/money/transmission fluid, but you are on your own course and I continue to watch with interest_
K_C_
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 218
From: New York, New York
The question is what does Honda officially say to do? I provided you with two newsletter articles which Honda sent to its dealers. I also provided an old page from an owners manual and looked through the current owners manual. If you call most Honda dealerships, they will say to change the fluid at 30,000 miles, but the official word from Honda is 60,000 miles. Some Honda dealerships offer a manual flush for around $150. Here are a few examples I found off the internet:
Transmission Flush Service Coupon | Service Specials in Phoenix AZ | Showcase Honda Maintenance Discounts & Service Deals
Honda Transmission Flush & Service Delray Beach, FL | Honda Service & Parts Specials
We do know that Honda says not to use power flush machines because they use a solvent which is not compatible with the transmission. We also know that Honda has had transmission problems in the last several years with certain model vehicles. Furthermore, transmission fluid does breakdown and I dont see the benefit behind leaving 60% of the old fluid in there.
Lets say a manual flush is allowed, would the procedure described in the newsletter be a thorough procedure? Basically, they are draining and refilling the transmission than shifting the gear shift while the car is on a lift. I would think it would be more thorough to drive the car around for a bit and repeat.
At 95,000+ miles I dont want to find out that I need a new transmission...
Transmission Flush Service Coupon | Service Specials in Phoenix AZ | Showcase Honda Maintenance Discounts & Service Deals
Honda Transmission Flush & Service Delray Beach, FL | Honda Service & Parts Specials
We do know that Honda says not to use power flush machines because they use a solvent which is not compatible with the transmission. We also know that Honda has had transmission problems in the last several years with certain model vehicles. Furthermore, transmission fluid does breakdown and I dont see the benefit behind leaving 60% of the old fluid in there.
Lets say a manual flush is allowed, would the procedure described in the newsletter be a thorough procedure? Basically, they are draining and refilling the transmission than shifting the gear shift while the car is on a lift. I would think it would be more thorough to drive the car around for a bit and repeat.
At 95,000+ miles I dont want to find out that I need a new transmission...
Last edited by SevereService; Jan 10, 2012 at 04:53 PM.
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 72
From: allentown, pa
seems overkill to drain and refill 3-4 times then 15k miles later drain and fill again. then 15kmiles later drain and refill 3-4 times again..even if you live in NYC and only do stop and go. If you drain and refill 3-4 times you should be fine for atleast 30k miles in NYC. The average driver I think would be good for 60k between those....Another option is to drain and fill one time...every 20k. I wouldn't ever do it more than that. The transmission problems were only for certain years, like 02-05 ? but its your car and I really don't know how dirty your ATF is after 15k
Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,417
From: Capital Distric New York
I have to agree, however, 'dirt' is not the bane of A/T tranny fluid - over heating is, hence the 'burnt' smell associated with the need to change. This comes after many miles and hard driving conditions. The Fit's A/T, with the specified fluids, is well equipped to go the distance, regardless. 30K is a good number, really not sure when the MM kicks in for the service.
But like you've said, SevereService has his reasons as well as my interest. All in all it's an interesting thread.
But like you've said, SevereService has his reasons as well as my interest. All in all it's an interesting thread.
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 218
From: New York, New York
What I will do is manually flush the transmission every 30,000 miles using the 4 drain&refill method. That will be about 10 quarts of oil and probably a few hours of time in all. This will put my mind most at ease. The owners manual only mention of a service interval is at 30,000 miles if the Fit is towed behind a motorhome. There is a HELMS guide out there which states 60k and than every 30k. The HELMs guide is supposed to have all the factory information.
On the internet and other places, everyone seems to have their own version of the ATF change interval. I read where one guy was changing his at 7500k and another guy who seemed knowledgeable changed his at 20000. 30,000 seems like the interval which most manufacturers suggest for severe service.
The next discussion on the internet is always drain&fill or flush. My personal opinion is that leaving 60% of the old ATF behind is probably not a good idea. Although it will take some time to drain&fill 4 times and cost about $70 in fluid, I feel thats the way to go. Im not a wealthy man where I can replace the car every few years and want this one to last as long as possible.
My goal is to make the car last way past 200,000 miles and drive it until the "wheels fall off". However, if I got a job overseas or if something else came up than I want to be able to sell this without issue so I try to get it serviced at the dealership. I wouldnt trade it in, but I would try to sell it in the autotrader and having a stack of receipts is very helpful when selling one of these.
I have a feeling that 200,000 is going to come up sooner then later. I have had the car since May and I have 32000 miles on it. At this rate, I will probably get to 200,000 in 3-4 years...
On the internet and other places, everyone seems to have their own version of the ATF change interval. I read where one guy was changing his at 7500k and another guy who seemed knowledgeable changed his at 20000. 30,000 seems like the interval which most manufacturers suggest for severe service.
The next discussion on the internet is always drain&fill or flush. My personal opinion is that leaving 60% of the old ATF behind is probably not a good idea. Although it will take some time to drain&fill 4 times and cost about $70 in fluid, I feel thats the way to go. Im not a wealthy man where I can replace the car every few years and want this one to last as long as possible.
My goal is to make the car last way past 200,000 miles and drive it until the "wheels fall off". However, if I got a job overseas or if something else came up than I want to be able to sell this without issue so I try to get it serviced at the dealership. I wouldnt trade it in, but I would try to sell it in the autotrader and having a stack of receipts is very helpful when selling one of these.
I have a feeling that 200,000 is going to come up sooner then later. I have had the car since May and I have 32000 miles on it. At this rate, I will probably get to 200,000 in 3-4 years...
So with plausible points and counter points from SS and KC about A/T servicing, what I'm now curious about is how the MM will come into play with this. Without knowing the intricacies of the MM, my SWAG (scientific wild ass guess) is that the MM does not take A/T fluid samples. If the A/T is serviced sooner than the MM code 3 then the rest of the monitoring goes out of whack. Just my thoughts. 
Not trying to start another premium/regular, mpg/spirited/economy driving, engine braking/not discussion here...
Realistically, I don't see those 3-4 times drain/fill service routine happening. And I really have my doubts that the process would be SOPs in the shops either.
Not trying to start another premium/regular, mpg/spirited/economy driving, engine braking/not discussion here...
Realistically, I don't see those 3-4 times drain/fill service routine happening. And I really have my doubts that the process would be SOPs in the shops either.
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Joined: May 2010
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From: Capital Distric New York
IMHO - MM is great for oil change cycles [well documented].
Beyond that it seems to relate to a distance/engine revolution thing.
Not sure but it's my SWAG on it.
I've seen no indication/documentation that the other service intervals are anything more than that.
I recently passed the 30K mile mark.
Now I start thinking about an M/T fluid change.
At the 3-4yr mark I'll have the coolant 'flushed' and replaced.
I'm not overly concerned with the brake fluid at this point.
Unless something comes up, what else is there?
Beyond that it seems to relate to a distance/engine revolution thing.
Not sure but it's my SWAG on it.
I've seen no indication/documentation that the other service intervals are anything more than that.
I recently passed the 30K mile mark.
Now I start thinking about an M/T fluid change.
At the 3-4yr mark I'll have the coolant 'flushed' and replaced.
I'm not overly concerned with the brake fluid at this point.
Unless something comes up, what else is there?
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 218
From: New York, New York
I wish Honda would come out with more clear instructions on the Automatic transmission service. The manual does say "Replace" and "Change" so its not clear if they want a non-machine flush or a simple drain&fill. The dealership and Honda the corporation seem to have two different answers on the interval change. One suggests 60 while the other says 30. There seems not much out there in the way of documentation.
Some dealerships offer both a drain&fill and a flush which is a 4 times drain&fill.
Most people will just follow the Minute Minder, take the car to the dealer when they see a 3 and get charged $70 for a drain&fill. Most folks will probably decline the more expensive flush service. Im also wondering why the dealership charges $70 for what is just as easy as an oil change. There is no pan to drop on this one. For those who plan on trading it in at 75k or are leasing the car than this service will probably never get done. I can imagine why people are reporting those earlier problems with the transmission. These problems were probably encouraged by a lack of maintenance.
So, with that said, I am going to do a manual non-machine flush in my driveway every 30,000 miles just so my mind is at ease this issue is being taken care of properly. My goal is to take the car over 100k without any obvious problems...i.e. tranny slippage.
Some dealerships offer both a drain&fill and a flush which is a 4 times drain&fill.
Most people will just follow the Minute Minder, take the car to the dealer when they see a 3 and get charged $70 for a drain&fill. Most folks will probably decline the more expensive flush service. Im also wondering why the dealership charges $70 for what is just as easy as an oil change. There is no pan to drop on this one. For those who plan on trading it in at 75k or are leasing the car than this service will probably never get done. I can imagine why people are reporting those earlier problems with the transmission. These problems were probably encouraged by a lack of maintenance.
So, with that said, I am going to do a manual non-machine flush in my driveway every 30,000 miles just so my mind is at ease this issue is being taken care of properly. My goal is to take the car over 100k without any obvious problems...i.e. tranny slippage.
Last edited by SevereService; Jan 11, 2012 at 04:55 AM.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 218
From: New York, New York
Just an update, I received 10 quarts of fluid today from Bernardi. I am almost done with the 4 times drain&fill or the "manual flush".
I will update everyone later on. Feel free to ask questions. The transmission drain plug you plug a 3/8 socket wrench directly into the plug. The actual plug is not a bolt. You plug the socket directly into the plug and turn.
I photographed everything and this is easier than changing the oil. Actually, you could probably do a drain&fill alongside changing the oil. It takes 2.5 quarts of ATF for each drain and fill.
The hardest part is driving the thing up the ramp and stuffing the funnel into the hole where you put the transmission dipstick. There is an official fill hole, but you have to remove some components for that. I simply got a long funnel and that did the job.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
I will update everyone later on. Feel free to ask questions. The transmission drain plug you plug a 3/8 socket wrench directly into the plug. The actual plug is not a bolt. You plug the socket directly into the plug and turn.
I photographed everything and this is easier than changing the oil. Actually, you could probably do a drain&fill alongside changing the oil. It takes 2.5 quarts of ATF for each drain and fill.
The hardest part is driving the thing up the ramp and stuffing the funnel into the hole where you put the transmission dipstick. There is an official fill hole, but you have to remove some components for that. I simply got a long funnel and that did the job.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
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Ok, I am done! It took a good 2-3 hours, but its done! If you look in the previous picture, the fluid was not exactly light red anymore. It was basically a dark red approaching brown.
I figured out a good change interval for do it your selfers. If I was a do it your selfer than I would do a drain and fill every 7000 miles along with the oil change. All you have to do to drain and fill the transmission is turn that bolt. By 30,000 miles you will have drain and filled the transmission enough times to have replaced 97% of the oil.
This isnt quite over yet. Tomorrow I will check the bolt tightness and fluid level. In another week, I will also check the bolt again along with the fluid level. I have adjusted losses where the oil change company did not put the bolt back in tightly enough...
Right now, Im going back to return the "Rhino ramps" to Walmart which I paid $43 for. Hehe, I know some of you might be against that but Walmart is a multi-billion dollar company. I am playing by their rules. If I kept the ramp, it would go into the garage unused for a while. I dont plan on changing the oil myself for a while. The only reason why I did this myself was because I saw no other way to make sure it was done right. I dont know what they will do behind the scenes at the dealership. Will they really drain and refill it 4 times? Will they do it once or twice? Will they use that machine which Honda, the corporation, doesnt want used?
My family has had some transmission problems in the past at high mileage where they had to replace it. So I feel like this is insurance. I dont want to be shelling out 3 grand in the future for a transmission. I did drive around for a little bit and it does feel smoother.
I figured out a good change interval for do it your selfers. If I was a do it your selfer than I would do a drain and fill every 7000 miles along with the oil change. All you have to do to drain and fill the transmission is turn that bolt. By 30,000 miles you will have drain and filled the transmission enough times to have replaced 97% of the oil.
This isnt quite over yet. Tomorrow I will check the bolt tightness and fluid level. In another week, I will also check the bolt again along with the fluid level. I have adjusted losses where the oil change company did not put the bolt back in tightly enough...
Right now, Im going back to return the "Rhino ramps" to Walmart which I paid $43 for. Hehe, I know some of you might be against that but Walmart is a multi-billion dollar company. I am playing by their rules. If I kept the ramp, it would go into the garage unused for a while. I dont plan on changing the oil myself for a while. The only reason why I did this myself was because I saw no other way to make sure it was done right. I dont know what they will do behind the scenes at the dealership. Will they really drain and refill it 4 times? Will they do it once or twice? Will they use that machine which Honda, the corporation, doesnt want used?
My family has had some transmission problems in the past at high mileage where they had to replace it. So I feel like this is insurance. I dont want to be shelling out 3 grand in the future for a transmission. I did drive around for a little bit and it does feel smoother.
Last edited by SevereService; Jan 12, 2012 at 06:37 PM.
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,417
From: Capital Distric New York
Right now, Im going back to return the "Rhino ramps" to Walmart which I paid $43 for. Hehe, I know some of you might be against that but Walmart is a multi-billion dollar company. I am playing by their rules.
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I just got back from Walmart. They didnt even ask the reason for the return. The lady took the receipt and ramps. The ramps got placed on a shelf behind her and the money refunded back to my credit card. Like I said, this is how they do business and I am following their rules.
Walmartstores.com: Return Policy
If you read their policy, they dont even say you have to have a reason why you are returning the item.
Walmartstores.com: Return Policy
If you read their policy, they dont even say you have to have a reason why you are returning the item.