Hey man ,I'm not a saint either, and I will continue to read the posts,and will not place you on ignore,just think, why are you getting so much heat on this ?? think man, think.Maybe not now but in due time you will realize what went on here.Don't stop posting and stay safe. Now back to FIT topics. JJ

 

ye gods. I never thought I'd defend obsessive fluid replacement (OFR).

The newer DW-1 ATF from Honda may be formulated to perform better. A simple drain/fill only replaces 42% of the total fluid.

If you're going to take advantage of the newer formula ATF you need multiple cycles of drain/fill with some driving in between to have a strong concentration of the new fluid. I don't have the chemistry/math to calculate this elegantly, but more than 2 cycles is reasonable. The first is relatively straightforward; replacing 2.5L of 5.85L gives you a 42% solution of the newer DW-1. The next 2.5L you would be removing 42% DW-1 and adding 100% DW-1 to the remaining 3.35L @ 42% DW-1 (or 1.4L DW-1) giving you 3.9/5.85L or 66% DW-1 solution. Seems like it might take "many" drain/fills to get there.

As for it being bad for the transmission: only if you leave the plug out.

The MM appears to alert transmission maintenance so infrequently that no one seems to know when it does this.

Someone sent me this link which seems to suggest irrespective of what the MM calls for, Honda recommends replacing the fluid at 120K miles. Which seems equally absurd (especially since only 42% is being changed), but who knows.

At the rip-off-rate of $100 for a dealer drain/fill (who knows how they justify this, but as they get ridiculous amounts for cabin filters I'm sure they don't lose sleep over it) you'll spend yourself to death unless you do it yourself.

 

For many, many people the dealer IS the place to go for service. The some times prevailing opinion on this, and many, forums bashing dealers is not a whole lot better than bashing Walmart.

Thing is, the dealer service is specialized with training on the product line. They most likely have all the parts they need on hand. Do they charge you for the service, sure they do. Will they help you understand to be able to do things yourself, they'll do that as well. Can you get a 'better deal', yes you can. Can you fool yourself into thinking 'more' is better. Of course, but better than what, if better at all.

For some reason owners become obsessed.
The service record of most all Honda's is exemplary.
Our Fit's are certainly very near the top of that list.


Do we think that's because all those satisfied owners are second guessing Honda?
Those guys second guessing are the ones making Hyundai's...

Like I said before the roof blew off:K_C_

 

Steve I took you off ignore because I found my self agreeing more than disagreeing. The point you fail to realize is the DW1 fluid is already in this car, it came out in 2011 and all cars from that time forward has it. Changing the fluid so much is not good because the additives that are breaking down get wash out and the new oil additives take time to break down so it leaves the parts unprotected. Changing the filter to see whats happening is better than changing the fluid excessively. It sounds like the new fluid is not as good for heat retention. Genuine Fluids


Doesn't the Fit have the 5 speed auto and not the CVT trans which needs more changes? I agree the fluid should be changed more frequently than the MM but a drain and fill is good enough and maybe a trans filter too using Honda OE.

This is why Honda requires a oil change A service with out the oil filter for the same reason and I wonder what damage we are doing by changing the filter when its not need by washing those additives away.

I understand this is a hot topic and all info is appreciated and I am not starting a war but just trying to learn more and give my opinion.

 

I did a lot of Googleing and I have spent considerable time around cars in my adult life. I have never heard anyone say that by changing the transmission oil (or the engine oil) sooner would cause damage or premature wear to the engine. The main concerns about changing the oil early is the environment&waste oil and excessive cost/time involved.

I am very anal about maintenance to include who its done by and I even critique the owners manual/vehicle manufacturer. I base my critique off of past tests done on vehicles and what most others recommend for intervals. I believe Honda has it right when they ask for a 7000 mile oil change. Consumer Reports did a scientific test on New York City taxis in 1996 and here is a link to that article which I found on someone's blog:

Consumer Reports Article About Oil Changes

Basically, consumer reports did very well with a 6000 mile drain interval using regular motor oil. Honda is using a semi-synthetic oil produced by Kendal which is well known in the racing world for producing high quality oil or if you go to the Honda dealer they are probably putting in Mobil 1 bulk oil. In any event, if its from Kendal or Mobil it will be synthetic and of a higher grade than the oil used in Consumer Reports 1996 test.

However, Im not entirely sure if Honda has it right on the ATF drain interval. The conventional wisdom at any mechanic's shop is you replace the transmission ATF at 30,000 miles or sooner. My fluid was turning brownish at 30,000. After the change, the transmission seemed a little bit smoother. It wasnt shifting hard, but it seemed a little firm. The ATF change seemed to make it smooth like it came off of the lot.

My interest is in maximum longetivity for my Fit therefore I go a step ahead of what Honda asks to maintain the car. I use a higher grade oil fully synthetic (vs. semi-synthetic) purchased right from a Honda dealer. The transmission fluid gets changed out sooner than the maintenance manual stipulates.

I like going to the local Honda dealer because they do a thorough check of the vehicle. I think its worth going at least while the vehicle is still under the warranty. There is a way to leverage the various Honda dealerships in your area. First, there are online coupons you can use at these dealerships to minimize the cost of service. Just go to the dealership website. Second, I found they did the same checks with A service as they did with B service. The dealership has an interest in checking over the vehicle whether you paid them to check it or not. So whether it be the cheap coupon oil change or the mighty B service, that vehicle will be checked because they want to upsell the job. Third, everything is negotiable. If you tell the service advisor its too much and that you will go to your local mechanic to do it than Im sure he will negotiate the price down. He doesnt want to see you leave. Some dealership service departments are more negotiable than others, but they are all negotiable to an extent just like the salesmen up front are negotiable. I found one Honda dealership wanting $70 for the oil change/tire rotation and I got another one down to $40 with coupon. Fourth, selling your car privately on something like the autotrader will be easier with a fistfull of dealership receipts than a fistfull of nothing or a fistfull of independent mechanic receipts.

Here is a good article on keeping the same car for 15 years versus getting a new one every 5....

Consumer Reports finds maintaining cars for 200,000 miles can save owners thousands of dollars (Chatham Journal)

 

Last Monday Renton Honda Service Dept told me Honda full synthetic is Mobil1. for what it's worth?

 

I knew someone who change his oil once a week and about a month later the motor seized. Clean oil is important but it takes heat to break it down and for the additives to work. If you dont believe me that's OK because no one changes the oil that much for it to be a problem. Racers do change the oil frequently but that's because the oil is under high stress and high heat so changing it every day is different.

I believe it was you that talked about Honda oil being Kendall. If you look at the semi synthetic specs its Group 2 and 3 oil base with Group 2 being 99 percent saturated which is almost as good a group 3. Honda uses ConocoPhillips oil which is the supplier to many other brand names. I use the bulk oil at Honda 5w20 which is CP and is good for 7500 at least according to my dealer that moved away from M1. Mobil produces all its base oils and is a great oil.


I will be changing my fluid in the trans next oil change. 27K miles or so. Keeping a car 15 years in New York is gonna cost more than the cars worth. You should look into a lease and keep getting a new car every 3 years. Honda has a excellent lease program..

 

I was told the same thing, Mobil 1,,and $65 for the Oil change/tire rotation and whatever else they do.Just wish I could see the original plastic Mobil 1 containers instead of a big drum with who knows what oil in it. JJ

 

That particular dealership may use Mobil 1 bulk because it may be cheaper for them but Mobil does not make Hondas Full Synthetic it is clearly made by Conoco Phillips who also owns Kendall. You can tell by the shape and design of their bottles.

 

How could you agree with me if you had me on ignore? D'oh.

You're right, I wasn't paying attention and thought he had the older fluid. Changing transmission fluid every 20K may be a waste of money, but it's his money. And he's only draining 2.5 out of 6 quarts each time.

On this point, the only reference Honda has to 60K changes is for severe service rather than going by the MM. One can infer normal service is twice this, or 120K (as indicated on this page).

Personally I'd change it every 30K or so. Changing 2.5 quarts out of 6 at 120K seems pretty pointless.

um. No. just no. It's the "breaking down" of oil and its additives that necessitates changing it.

Changing oil before recommended is unnecessary, but does no harm as long as you're using the specified oil. There have been studies (consumer reports) to try to determine if there was any benefit to changing oil more frequently (they didn't find any). There is no literature to suggest too frequent changes are harmful (believe me, I've looked) other than a statistical probability of someone making a mistake. Did the person who had the engine seize do something stupid?

There is one theory that a given brand of oil provides a layer of protection on bearing surfaces that is cleaned off by using a different brand with different detergents. The new brand requires some time to replace this layer. Is this what you're talking about? Personally I think this is ad propaganda to promote brand loyalty.

But we aren't talking about motor oil.

I'd pull the dip-stick to "see what's happening." So far everyone with an automatic has found discolored fluid after 30K or less. Some like to point to that and say it's "oxidized/burned." I'm not sure this is indicative of anything.

Other than stating not to put Z1 in cars that came with DW-1 there is nothing on that page to suggest they have differing properties.

One can infer that because DW-1 is newer and Honda recommends it for older cars specifically stating the two can be mixed that there might be some engineering reason to change to the newer fluid.

The only CVT honda currently sells in this country is in the hybrids.

???!!!!! Where do you get this stuff? According to this logic you should never change your oil.

Honda probably suggests changing the filter every other oil change (20,000 miles in some cases) because it doesn't need changing every time! It still performs adequately. Personally I can't see the cost benefit of saving $5 over 20,000 miles and leaving half a quart or so of old oil in the old filter.

But we aren't talking about motor oil.

Your opinions sound like old-wives' tales.

Better put me back on ignore.

 

Steve, Ya Your back on the ignore list but first Honda MM service manual says change oil only on the A. Basically its because the filter only strains and the oil is in different levels of decomposition. I did not expect you to agree or understand but it was worth a shot.

Oil and trans oil does the same purpose and the oil could last a lot longer if the oils was filtered down to 1-5 microns and heat is reduced.

The transmission I would say every 30k but that depends on the fuel used too.

 

wait, I thought heat was necessary to break down the additives for protection?

 

Did you make a joke?

 

The oils carry off the heat but if it goes through a by pass filter and cooler it extends the life of oil. http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Corvair_oil.pdf

 

 

I thought I read somewhere that a new oil filter doesn't work as well as the one already in use (up to a point) and shouldn't be changed every time for that reason---anyone know??

 

A new filter is 98 to 99.9 efficient at 25 to 30 microns so it basically strains the oil picking up the big carbon. As the filter collects debris it picks up smaller and smaller micron debris becoming more efficient.

I do change the filter every oil change but that is why I said is it actually good if Honda says different.

 

Here is info about automatic trans cooling... http://www.roscommonequipmentcenter....notes/nn15.pdf

 

Thanks for the explanation SilverBullet! Makes sense. So, why do you go ahead and change the filter everytime anyway, even against Honda's recommendation? Not criticizing, just trying to understand as my Fit is brand new and I'm trying to plan for the future. My impulse would be to change the filter every time too, but...

 

Yes I change the filter every oil change but its not as important as in the past. The dealer agrees and they change the filter or at least I think they do..