Here's what the specified range should look like but like others have stated rear toe isn't adjustable so kind of pointless

[IMG][/IMG]

 

Modified neans they edited the actual specs that were measured? So that invalidates the whole procedure? Looks I will have to send an email to service manager and ask for explanation.

 

They modified the allowable range shown in the report, but your actual specs fell within the factory range before they edited it (I may have confused the issue up thread). Your car is within factory specs, these other displays confirm what those specs are.

 

Damn, I need to learn to read those numbers.
Thanks for the feedback though I am still unclear,
WHY WOULD THEY NEED TO MODIFY THE ALLOWABLE RANGE???????
Now I wonder if they performed the alignment check at all. I heard the technician was wishpering and then discussing something with this print out sheet in a private room before telling me the results.

Why does it say 2009 and why did they MODIFY something at all. Doesn't make much sense as it is.
Id appreciate if someone could explain.

 

Not sure why'd they change it if the measurements fell within spec anyway. There's nothing they can do about the rear toe so maybe they just changed it so you wouldn't get mad if it wasn't in spec

Everything looks OK to me anyway. That rear toe out is annoying but can't be fixed so it is what it is I guess.

They didn't adjust anything though. The small changes just happen on the rack sometimes.

 

Toe-in spec is between the two front wheels (and not one wheel) +/- 3mm, or 0.117"; that would be zero+/- .058" on each side.
What's actual and before ? Or cross camber ?
Caster in my shop manual is 3 deg 45 min, or 3.75 degrees; 3.3 deg means the steering wheel won't return to straifght ahead as quickly. That alone is a handling problem. Yes I'm aware correcting is a big effort.
rear toe in is 2.5 deg +/- 2.5 deg, or zero to 5mm (0.200") again across both wheels or zero to ).100" each side.and is changeable only with machine shop efforts. If thgose measurements are indeed each side to chassis centerline your toe is way out on the left wheel again a handling problem. Right at 0.100" indicates both wheels are toed out unless not negative is toe-in. The difference in toe will contribute to inconsisent handling.

All in all, I asked our comp alignment guy what he thought and he indicated he's seen Fits with worse specs and better and that those 'modified' specs just might be the range of Fit wheel specs. And that surely the alignment was done with tire pressures in spec and ride heights veru=ified. Both will affect alignment measurements. Course a bent wheel will too. We lift the vehicle and check rotation within 0.010". And check for bent suspension components too.
Rear camber spec is -1.5 deg+/- 1 deg

 

Why are you getting hung up on the 2009 bit?

It's just a label for a group of car years that have the same spec. Do you think it's worth programming the computer to display, 2009 vs 2010 vs etc just for the different model years, even though they have the exact same specs?

Have you not shopped around for parts at all? Filters, headlights, seats, etc etc... all parts shared on 2009 and 2010 (and continuing in later years for most parts). The stores list them as "2009-present" or "2009+" or something like that.

yes, even up to 2012/2013.

Now, in 2014 or 2015, or if you were trying to buy a new front bumper, that would be different (as there is a change there).

 

Actually the strut dampers are different between 2010 and 2012.
Even if the suspension specs are the same, I would much rather prefer the screen reflect my correct model year as I see no reason it should reflect the wrong year. It doesn't show 2009-12, it shows 2009.
Given that the floor mats for 2010 are different from 2012 mats, is enough of a reason for me to want to see the correct year on the alignment report.

 

So the results were NOT in spec? Me getting mad? What the hell? Are you saying the dealer covered up the alignment problem and did not tell me about it to avoid me getting "mad" or demanding repair?

 

I am still not understanding why they needed to modify the results? Can you or someone give me a clear reason? Would be appreciated.

 

Thank you for the picture. Could you explain the reasons for modifications? I know I already asked that and thought maybe you might know.

So let me confirm my understanding, or confusion for that matter.
The allowable rear camber range is up to -2 degrees on each wheel? So does it mean that even if both are all the way at -2, the suspension is still considered to be within allowebale specs even though the actual total camber angle is 4 degrees (each being 2 degrees away from perfect vertical value of 0)? If this is indeed the case, could it be that the car that has the suspension at the maximum of allowable specs will actually have handling issues that are detectable by the driver? Is that kind of the case with my car given that the left camber is at -1.0 and the right one is at 1.2, thereby giving a total of 2.1 degrees value of total difference over perfect 0 degree camber?

 

I didn't pay for the alignment check. I brought the car to the dealer with a complaint of poor handling. The car has 9K miles and is under factory warranty.

I have been the only one to drive this car from the date of delivery at 20 miles.
My fault for not test driving it first, as I would certainly not have bought it.

I noticed the unstable highway ride as I was driving it to work from the dealership.

The 2010 fit is like a BMW or a car on rails compared to this minivan-like Fit.

 

Your critical thinking and mentioning all those factors is appreciated.
The car has only 9K miles and is completely stock. The wheels are OEM dunlops and are all set to 33 psi (32is recommended). The have no wear on them.
The car drives straight and does not pull to either side when I let the steering wheel go.

When I mention poor handling, I am referring to the car's ability to respond to sudden steering inputs and to recover from an upset caused by a steering wheel sudden movement.

Whereas my 2010 felt stable and able to recover from an upset immediately and with a sense of security, the 2012 fit feels unstable and as if the rear wheels respond separately from the front.

I feel as if the car is about to lose control and tip over itself. This feeling is also present when I drive on a freeway that is curved.

The steering wheel feels much lighter and easier to turn on the 2012 which gives the car the sensation of being less stable also.

The shocks are not leaking anywhere.
The car has not been involved in any kind of accidents and has not hit anything that could explain the handling issues. This car felt this way from the day I bought it.

When I test drove 2013 fit sport MT, they felt better than mine but not as good as my old 2010.


I guess my current conclusion is that this is just the way this car is built and it's not a very successfuly assembled vehicle.

I may wait until it's time to replace the front struts and install the 2010 dampers.

The engine is also noiser than the 2010 (the valves are noisier). The service manager told me that they could potentially do a valve clearance check, but I would hate to then deal with an improperly sealed manifold gasket or broke clips of the cowel.

 

its 0w-20 vs 5w-20. nothing to be worried about. Just install swifts and call it a day. You making more work for yourself. Do you think your gonna be able to request 2010 struts when your current ones wear out? most likely not.

 

Not sure why they would have changed the alignment specs since yours fell within the original spec anyway. I would print out Speedlimitz photo and bring it to them and ask about it if it concerns you. You are in original spec, so nothing really NEEDED to be changed.

Front sway bar attachment points are ok? Nothing obviously broken, defective bushings, nothing like that?

You could use the KYB Excel G replacement shocks as "2010 replacements", they were designed early so i'm sure they are spec'd to 2010 models and haven't changed since that design. They are very slightly more aggressive than stock. Or you could wait for the Koni STR.T which are supposedly coming out soonish and are performance oriented non-adjustables.

 

You don't want 0 degrees of rear camber. The ideal (factory spec) is -1.0 degrees. The allowable range before Honda will start talking about repairs is +/-1.0 degree from ideal giving you an absolute range of -2.0 and 0.0 degrees. Camber isn't additive like toe-in. If both were at -2 degrees, yes you would be within factory specs. If one or both were at -3 degrees or +1 degree then you would be outside of spec and be discussing a new rear suspension beam.

This is entirely subjective, but reasonable. I think air pressure, tires, shocks, anti-roll bar will cause a greater subjective sense of change in handling characteristics, but slight changes in alignment values will too.

"perfect" isn't zero camber. "perfect" is -1.0 degrees left and right. Your left is perfect. Your right is -1.2 (not 1.2) degrees: 0.2 degrees from perfect. Close enough to perfect not to be noticeable.

The Fit has no rear adjustments. The only front adjustment is toe-in. It's not a sports car with infinite adjustments to all angles.

The things you can change that will have an effect are:
1) tire pressure
2) actual tires (size, manufacturer, rating)
3) rear sway (anti-roll bar) aftermarket add on
4) shocks / springs (front are McPherson Struts with integral springs/shocks that can be replaced as a unit or the shock absorber cartridge alone, rear are traditional springs and separate shock absorbers)

Tire pressure is free. The sway bar might be interesting, these are about $150 plus installation. Shocks / springs are pricey. Changing the tires to better performing tires is something to consider; the OE Dunlops are miserable.

I'd play with tire pressure first.

 

Hi,

First of all, the reason you find that the brand new 2013 MT feel better then you car is because
the 2013 is really brand new and a brand new car (for the first few hundred miles)
will have TIGHTER suspension (shocks) since it is not break in yet like your 9,000 miles 2012.
This make the 2013 MT that you test had stiffer suspension then your 2012 (at least until it is break in)
so if you buy that 2013 and use it for a month, it will be exactly like your 2012.

I also experience this "INSTABILITY" in my 2013 Honda Fit AT since brand new, so I know exactly what you talking about.
and this problem is actually getting worse after I drive it few hundred miles (my wheel is still stock factory wheel at that time).
The problem is I never own a Honda Fit before
so I don't have a good reference point like you, so at the beginning, I thought this is a Honda Fit suppose to drive.

then later,
First problem that I found out,
my dealer put 40psi !!! in each tire, and I drove like that for the first 2 month until I check the tire pressure myself,
no wonder the car feel loose and greasy on highspeed freeway driving.
After lowering the tire pressure to 33psi, the car grips better, but still don't handle like what I hope it can.

Second, I put 18in wheel and tire,
now this make my car grip endlessly, but on highway speed, the rear feel loose again just like what you experience.
and the solution is I change to Bilstein coil over with much higher spring rate than stock and it also have much higher damping in the shocks/struts.
This really make the car stable, although my rear end is occasionally still move just a tiny bit if and only if the freeway surface is uneven,
but this is more because I put too large tire (225) then anything else.
and I am sure will not happen to other if they dont put 18in wheel and 225 tire like me.

Third,
to increase stability even more, I put Spoon front sway bar and Progress rear sway bar. The Front Spoon sway bar is what make the car handle very very very stable/flat, and the later addition of the Progress Rear Sway Bar actually make the car a bit less stable again at the back/rear axle,
but then it response to input much more faster, plus it also make my rear axle more rigid (since the Progress is like an extra braces there), so now the movement at the rear is almost gone unless the surface of the freeway is really bad. I know it's confusing,
but the car now oversteer more with Progress rear sway bar but less shaking on the rear axle it selft.
well, the car can corner at 100mph on a long fast sweeping corner at freeway,and the car is just planted
and won't go anywhere, it is just that with Progress it can take corner at much steeper rate then before !

Forth,
I suspect the bushing of my rear axle is too soft to handle the grip from my tire so I already bought Spoon Rigid Color for the rear axle,
and will install it once I swap my axle with my JDM RS Rear Axle with disk brake.
This I believe (and hope) will forever make the rear axle tiny movement (shake/fish tail) on uneven freeway surface gone forever !
but this might not be needed for your application.

Ok,
back to your car and why your 2012 is worse handling than 2010.

When I sold my original OEM 2013 suspension to another fitfreak poster,
his comment was the OEM 2013 suspension was much softer compare to the PRE 2012 facelifted suspension !!! and that suit his need,
since he do want a softer handling car.

and the same person told me that his PRE 2012 car is also MUCH MORE NOISIER then the AFTER face lift, which mean Honda added some sound deadening to the car after face lift which mean extra weight !!!

This extra weight couple with softer suspension in your 2012 make your car handle like this (worse then 2010).

I mean if you say your car drive straight and had no uneven tire wear,
that mean nothing wrong with your car, only your suspension is "DIFFERENT" then your 2010 car.
and since you have DIRECT REFERENCE with your 2010 car,
you notice this right away...

so the solution to your problem is:
1. Buy an after market springs.
if you don't want to lower your car too much, buy the Swift Spring,
if I am not mistaken this will cost about $200 or $300 ???

2. for even better result, Buy some harder damping shocks,
I am sure the REAR Koni shocks available from Chris at Redshift is the best if you just want to buy rear shocks,
and for the front shocks,
there are several thread in here that show which front shocks/strut is good.
(I forget which one, since I am not interested in this kind of mods).
The above combo is just to lower your car in fixed lowering height, not adjustable, and not that low,
because Swift spring is NOT low. which might suit your needs.
This performance shocks will add more cost, to perhaps another $400 to $500 on top of the spring, not sure on this ???

3. if you want to be able to adjust the height then a coil over is the solution.
for daily street use, I recommend buying Bilstein,
it might cost you from a bit more to much more compare to other brand of coilover,
but my personal experience from using Bilstein is really transformative.
Your Honda Fit will suddenly feel like TUNED BMW Alpina, not as hard as M series BMW though.
Bilstein through tirerack is the cheapest you can find,
I think this one cost almost $1,200 include shipping (already forget, you can just check with Tirerack for current price)
Bilstein is NOT cheap, but MONEY DO NOT LIE !

4. If you want coilover that you can also change the spring rate (for example if you plan to track your car in the future),
then buy the Koni coilover combo modified/custom made by Chris at Redshift,
this cost a bit more than Bilstein, I think around $1,350??? just check
with Chris for the latest update, but this is THE BEST and most COST EFFECTIVE if you plan to track your car in the future.
(if you want better, Ohlins is available but more than double the cost).

5. don't forget buy the SPC camber bolt, so you can adjust your camber upfront (only like $50 for 2 pair, yes you need 2 pair),
and this will make your steering much better in the corner.

6. if you had buy the coil over above, then you might get carried away
and might want to buy Spoon front sway bar which less than $200,
but the install might cost you more.

7. last if you feel you need your rear axle to respond faster after the front spoon,
then you might want to install progress rear sway bar.

I am pretty sure by now your handling will be much better than your 2010...

If you asked me,
the best cost effective solution to your problem is the swift spring, but keep the stock shocks/struts.
This is the cheapest and most related to the difference between 2010 and 2012 model softer suspension.

the second best solution is to just buy a coil over since a cost of swift spring
with separate shocks will already enough to buy you some cheap coil over
or only few hundreds less than the cost of the Bilstein coil over.
If you just put Bilstein WITHOUT front or rear sway bar,
your ride will be almost like stock comfortable,
because it is progressive spring but when you corner, and BRAKE (nose dive),
it will be firm and the car will be stable, just like a BMW !!!
to be honest the best RIDE quality I ever had with my Honda Fit
were when I only install Bilstein with no front/rear sway bar at all !
but since I want even better handling then I had to add front and rear
sway bar with the expense of that TUNED BMW like ride with just Bilstein !

Trust me on this one,
and if you read the review of anybody buying Bilstein here,
NONE (seriously NONE) had any negative review.
(well the only complain is the Bilstein do not slam to the ground but
I think you are not looking for the lowest right height either right?)
I mean NOBODY COMPLAIN about Bilstein AT ALL since the start or later after few thousand miles.
It is made in Germany too (no wonder the ride characteristic will be more like German car).
you see, some people install their coilover and some are happy from the start
but after a while then they start to complain about it became too harsh,
or it blown/leak, and some are already feel their coilover too harsh from the start
and then after some adjustment they finally can live (forced to live) with the harshness,
but with Bilstein,
is already harmony from the start and no complain at all after few thousand miles.

Don't forget, the SPC camber bolt (either with just swift spring or coilover) is a must,
since it is cheap and it allow you to get the negative camber that you want for the front (at least -1.5 after lowering the car,
and you need to do alignment anyway,
plus according to factory manual, you need to replace your bolt each time you took out your suspension).

If you plan to use your car for a long time and do not plan to track them,
then just invest another $1,500 for Bilstein
(that price should cover SPC camber bolt and alignment cost but you had to install them yourself, otherwise it will cost more).
This $1,500 investment should last for at least 50,000 to 100,000 miles,
depend on how you drive your car and the road condition.
By the time the Bilstein need replacement (or service), most likely you already sold the car anyway,
so this is like a life time one time investment for you.
This will make your current 2012 car handle much better then your 2010,
and it will also bring SAFETY due to stability for the rest of your car ownership,
not to mention a smile on your face each time you drove your car

so the fault for 2012 car is the suspension is SOFTER then the 2010,
and the 2012 car is a bit HEAVIER due to added sound deadening from factory,
but nothing wrong with your car.

ps: not related to Bilstein, not gain any monetary gain from saying good things about Bilstein,
but just want to share my eye opening experience with Bilstein (compare to stocks),
and hopefully solve your handling problem once and for all.

 

whew. I think John21031 just wants his stock 2012 Fit to handle as good as his old stock 2010 Fit does.

2010 MT Fit Sport curb weight is 2520lbs
2012 MT Fit Sport curb weight is 2540lbs

I don't think 20lbs is noticeable (a tank of gas is like 60lbs) but maybe they did put softer shocks in the 2012 (he verified the same springs are on each, but different part nos. for shocks).

If the tires are similar, I'd point to shocks. But it's $400+ plus $400 labor for new shocks on all four corners, with unknown benefits especially if you're going to aftermarket shocks.

Edit: I see from your sig-line (I have it turned off by default) you've got both Fits

How many miles on the 2012? Are the same tires on both the 2010 and 2012?

 

Just got a '13 and if feels a bit softer to me, I'll be checking my pressures tonight. Thanks for the heads up!

 

Ah You are right Steve,
following your correction, I just check the part number and the spring for SPORT 2010 and 2012 is the same,

however the NON Sport model do have different rear springs compare to Sport model,...
I wonder could that be a mistake in Honda factory and they end up putting non sport model rear spring, well this is just a guess and most likely not true.. though...

so it is most likely not the spring then but the shocks...

still I am confident once he change he change to coil over,
he will experience tremendous improvement,
because I had experience that in my 2013 Honda Fit Sport AT.

now, I want to check the rear axle part number between 2009 and 2012/2013...
I am curious about it now...