Tires for autocrossing a Fit
#81
05-01-2014, 09:21 PM
So uh I'm putting the driver side sway bar link back on the car. I may end up buying a fresh one. How did you guys prevent the front sway bar from smacking into the lower a-arm every time you turn left???
#82
05-01-2014, 10:23 PM
Now that the sway bar link was reattached and I went out for a drive. The tires are great. They actually ride smoother then the stock econo tires lol. Now for the autocross performance next weekend.
#83
05-01-2014, 10:51 PM
something is funny.
#84
05-01-2014, 10:55 PM
Didn't we just have this conversation? lol. This is true for a-arms. With McPherson setup dynamic camber (relative to the ground) is lost as the car rolls. Tuners like Spoon and J's make bigger front sway bars for the front (McPherson) their train of thought is to keep the front of the car "flat" in order to not lose camber from front body roll. Lap times proved them right.
I would love to play around this summer testing front bars for a/xing purposes; removing, stock and Spoons bar. See if the same results hold.
I would love to play around this summer testing front bars for a/xing purposes; removing, stock and Spoons bar. See if the same results hold.
#85
05-01-2014, 11:08 PM
Disagree with your first point for sure. Reference friction circle. Letting off adds to lateral, it's when you brake too hard it adds understeer if the tires can't handle that extra input. It's balancing act. I get what you're saying but it's not totally true in practice. How much of whatever you're doing is most important (like you said, smoothness). Sure if you slam on your brakes it throws the tire way out of grip limit, you will understeer off course. Letting off just adds a little bit of lateral grip since the tire is not having to deal with so much forward motion and can transfer that to lateral. Once the car is "SETTLED" i.e. not in extreme understeer or oversteer and is easily handled with steering inputs, go ahead and power out.
Also, taking weight off the rear tires allows the car to rotate more. See pickup trucks with no load in the back on ice for reference
Like I said, not slamming on brakes, just playing on that edge of forward and lateral grip.
Also, like I said, this is not something I SHOULD do, it is something I would do if I came in too hot. It happens.
Yes to all those practices you asked if I knew. In normal circumstance i'm not even really handling the wheel on exit, I just catch it as it returns while on throttle.
Nobody said I was using "jargon" to be cool, I just use it because most people know what I mean without having to be a scientist in conversation.
He forgot already.
I believe if you have stiff springs like the GD and their coilovers have, you can get away with no front bar and it may even help. I DON'T think removing the front bar from a stock Fit will be very beneficial at all. If you have stiff suspension you're limiting travel with that enough, the sway bar just does funny things to BOTH front wheels while in action and probably hurts more than helps in a situation like that.
Also, taking weight off the rear tires allows the car to rotate more. See pickup trucks with no load in the back on ice for reference
Like I said, not slamming on brakes, just playing on that edge of forward and lateral grip.
Also, like I said, this is not something I SHOULD do, it is something I would do if I came in too hot. It happens.
Yes to all those practices you asked if I knew. In normal circumstance i'm not even really handling the wheel on exit, I just catch it as it returns while on throttle.
Nobody said I was using "jargon" to be cool, I just use it because most people know what I mean without having to be a scientist in conversation.
He forgot already.
I believe if you have stiff springs like the GD and their coilovers have, you can get away with no front bar and it may even help. I DON'T think removing the front bar from a stock Fit will be very beneficial at all. If you have stiff suspension you're limiting travel with that enough, the sway bar just does funny things to BOTH front wheels while in action and probably hurts more than helps in a situation like that.
Anytime you transfer weight toward the front wheels the front end will be more likely to understeer. And yes if you crank the wheels hard as yiou do that the back end may come around but more often than not thecar will push the front as the back goes sideways and the car will simply lose control.
In any FWD car with 60% front weight bias the b raking done in a straight line and as the brake is eased off the wheel then is turned as the throttle is squeezed on. The brake release and the throttle application may be quick but squeezed, not stomped or dropped out. If you wait too late to ease off the brakes you will beck the back end to snap around but rarely will it be caught before the line - and time - are destroyed. Its in that critical moment when the steering wheel is turned that the reduction in understeer proves its value because both wheels provide traction instead of only the outside tire. And the maximum sopeed is greater which is the proof.
#86
05-02-2014, 06:27 AM
I only disconnected one side. If you disconnect both sides it would just flop. If not, what is holding it up from just hitting all the time?
I removed this link between the strut and the sway bar:
When I was putting the right wheel on the car with the right front susension hanging I first noticed this may be an issue. That is the sway bar resting on the front left lower a-arm.
Sorry it would be hitting in a right turn. I had said left turn earlier.
As far as buying a fresh one. It is the one part on the car that is rusted and getting those nuts loose required enough force to start rounding the alan key holes.
I removed this link between the strut and the sway bar:
When I was putting the right wheel on the car with the right front susension hanging I first noticed this may be an issue. That is the sway bar resting on the front left lower a-arm.
Sorry it would be hitting in a right turn. I had said left turn earlier.
As far as buying a fresh one. It is the one part on the car that is rusted and getting those nuts loose required enough force to start rounding the alan key holes.
Last edited by rhop; 05-02-2014 at 06:56 AM.
#87
05-02-2014, 09:58 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_flick
See also Left Foot Braking...
I don't know how many more ways to put it but i'm done here. Apparently myself and my car are magical entities. Too weird to live, too rare to die.
See also Left Foot Braking...
I don't know how many more ways to put it but i'm done here. Apparently myself and my car are magical entities. Too weird to live, too rare to die.
#88
05-02-2014, 01:51 PM
I only disconnected one side. If you disconnect both sides it would just flop. If not, what is holding it up from just hitting all the time?
I removed this link between the strut and the sway bar:
When I was putting the right wheel on the car with the right front susension hanging I first noticed this may be an issue. That is the sway bar resting on the front left lower a-arm.
Sorry it would be hitting in a right turn. I had said left turn earlier.
As far as buying a fresh one. It is the one part on the car that is rusted and getting those nuts loose required enough force to start rounding the alan key holes.
I removed this link between the strut and the sway bar:
When I was putting the right wheel on the car with the right front susension hanging I first noticed this may be an issue. That is the sway bar resting on the front left lower a-arm.
Sorry it would be hitting in a right turn. I had said left turn earlier.
As far as buying a fresh one. It is the one part on the car that is rusted and getting those nuts loose required enough force to start rounding the alan key holes.
replacing the antisway bar is a mammoth job. Still, I suggest you remove the link on the passenger side and reinstall the driver and see if that helps. Additionally, check the mounting brakets to make sure they haven't rounded out letting the bar ends more freedom to 'flop'. Add rubber strips if you have to to get a better grip on the bar.
Finally, you may have to change the length of the link connecting one sideto position the sway bar clear of the A-arm. if all thar isn't successful wire the bar at both ends in a positon that won't interfere.
All that is much less work than replacing the bar. If you meant the link all of the above applies except work.
Let us know what you find out.
Good luck.
Last edited by mahout; 05-02-2014 at 01:54 PM.
#89
05-02-2014, 09:33 PM
Well I did a visual check on the sway bar and the right side stabilizer band clamp was an inch or so away from the right side stabilizer bar bushing mount aside from that nothing weird.
I think for now I'm just gonna leave it on. I told myself I would only do one change at a time between autocrosses and the change of choice is the tires.
In the meantime I will work on making a shorter link so that I can try it again in a few weeks after the next autocross.
I will try removing the passenger side link once I get a spare link for that side as well.
I think for now I'm just gonna leave it on. I told myself I would only do one change at a time between autocrosses and the change of choice is the tires.
In the meantime I will work on making a shorter link so that I can try it again in a few weeks after the next autocross.
I will try removing the passenger side link once I get a spare link for that side as well.
#91
05-10-2014, 07:26 PM
Tried out the new tires for autocross and they are fantansic compared to stock!
Tire pressures on the front at 43 are too low for my car it rolled over into the middle of the triangle. Will try 46 psi front next time. Backs are fine at 38psi.
Ran with the front sway bar attached this time. My goal was to beat the fiesta S/T. To which I got within a second and half of beating him with my 120 hp vs 200hp for the S/T :P. It rained in the afternoon session but my times in the wet were less then 1 second different. As far as I am concerned the tires are probably similar since that is a performance version of the fiesta.
At the event there were 2 crx guys and they both said they run without sway bars and suggested I used zipties. So I got home and did that and it works great!
It does get a bit tippier at higher speeds like 40+, but it does seem to grip better and turn in is much improved for normal street handling.
The sway bar mounts were fine aside from the whole sway bar is shifted left a bit.
Will have to wait until the end of June to actually try it out in autoxing. I will also get brake pads for the front calipers since that hurt my times on 2 turns of course where its coming out of a straight and you have hard >90˚
turns.
New tires (Dunlop Direzza ZIIs) grip better and make the car handle more predictably at the limit
Tire pressures on the front at 43 are too low for my car it rolled over into the middle of the triangle. Will try 46 psi front next time. Backs are fine at 38psi.
Ran with the front sway bar attached this time. My goal was to beat the fiesta S/T. To which I got within a second and half of beating him with my 120 hp vs 200hp for the S/T :P. It rained in the afternoon session but my times in the wet were less then 1 second different. As far as I am concerned the tires are probably similar since that is a performance version of the fiesta.
At the event there were 2 crx guys and they both said they run without sway bars and suggested I used zipties. So I got home and did that and it works great!
It does get a bit tippier at higher speeds like 40+, but it does seem to grip better and turn in is much improved for normal street handling.
The sway bar mounts were fine aside from the whole sway bar is shifted left a bit.
Will have to wait until the end of June to actually try it out in autoxing. I will also get brake pads for the front calipers since that hurt my times on 2 turns of course where its coming out of a straight and you have hard >90˚
turns.
New tires (Dunlop Direzza ZIIs) grip better and make the car handle more predictably at the limit
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