I'm pretty sure this has been discussed but I couldn't find much about using E10 91RON petrol/fuel here, so I'm sorry if it has been beaten to death already. Been googling for the past 2 days but I can't seem to find much discussion, just bits and pieces around.


I'm thinking about buying a used 2009 Honda Fit/Jazz 1.5L Manual Transmission (30,000km mileage) and I was wondering if it's okay to use E10 petrol on it (91RON). Mostly around the city and trips are usually within 4-7km away, and I drive pretty chill. Sometimes I'll carry equipment with me filling the luggage area.

I've read that it's safe to use on the 2009 model but I was wondering if there'd be some feedback and experiences from the fit freaks in this community.

Thanks and I hope to hear your thoughts,
Diego

 

I think my parents used just about every fuel there is in US: Regular, Plus, Supreme. I can say that you can use E10 91 without any problem. Main difference as far as I know will be slight difference in price (e.g. Supreme would cost more) but with slight increase in MPG accordingly (slight increase - like less than 10% really). And wise versa is true: Regular costs less, but gives slightly less MPG. My dad in the end decided to stay with Supreme, just to fill it up less often. In addition I know that in Canada we also have E10 (10% ethanol - it's just cheaper and E10 is used widely in Ontario all year round except winter - in winter 10% of ethanol is reduced to lower number - which gets better MPG) fuel and I haven't heard of any Fit having problems with it. And finally to put this question to rest: in Russia (I'm from there originally) there is a big Fit society and they are just fine with any fuel from worst quality to highest quality - and trust me I know what kind of poor quality fuel there is in Russia at some places. All they do is change fuel filters more often. All this just means that Fit 1.5L engine is a solid engine in that matter and is not very demanding for highest quality fuel. It's very forgiving in that matter, but I noticed slight increase in acceleration when using Supreme compared to Regular (again difference is small, but noticeable). All IMHO.

 

Thanks so much Fit2009BaseAT

 

I've been filling my fit with 91 for the past 6 months or so. At first it got significantly lower MPG but now it's back to normal. There are of course other deciding factors like traffic, road surface, etc.

 

Hi mate, does you 91 petrol have 10% ethanol aka E10 too? Cheers

 

Yes, the pumps say "up to" 10%.

 

Thank you!

 

I think you guys may be missing his question. I'm not sure if he was asking about the octane or the 10% ethanol.

Your US and Canadian method of measure AKI (Antiknock Index) is RON+MON/2 or R+M/2. His method in Australia is RON only. These are not the same measurements.

RON is a higher number and MON is a lower number. A given fuel sample will usually test 8 to 10 points difference between RON and MON. In the US and Canada we average those two numbers together.

So his 91 RON fuel is equal to around 86 or 87 US and Canadian octane.

So my answer to his question is YES. I only run 87 (or 86 at higher altitudes) octane fuel and some of it is E10 depending on what geography you purchase the fuel in.

What does your Australian Owners manual say the RON for you to use? Ours says to use 87 octane (r+m/2).

 

Nice catch! I didn't know octane and RON were different, thanks man.

It says I can use 91RON.

I guess I'm asking if the combo of 91RON and E10 is okay with the 2009 Jazz, as I've heard people say to avoid the E10 petrol although I don't know why.

The Australian government has published an article saying that this specific Jazz is safe with the E10, but I was wondering what the fit freaks here think and had experienced.

 

Really RON, MON, and R+M/2 are all octane measurements. We just use a different scale or measurement scheme than you do. If you want to be further confused we measure aviation gasoline with an different scale that is primarily MON.

The answer your initial question is "yes". We have been using E-10 here in some areas of the country for over 20 years. E-10 is OK to use in a Fit or Jazz.

E-10, or the ethanol part of E-10, has some interesting characteristics. The ethanol has less energy (BTUs) per gallon so your miles per gallon will be somewhat less. Ethanol does increase octane but increasing octane does not by itself increase power of miles per gallon and in the case of E-10 reduces it. E-10 does burn cleaner and is also a great fuel system detergent. It has greatly reduced the detergent additive market in many areas of the country.

Around here there has been heavy marketing by the ethanol industry to promote ethanol use. The effort was originally only in corn growing states. Then a few years back they came out with a "Top Tier" campaign. Many people have bought into that rhetoric and actually pay more for lower energy E-10 fuel.

So go ahead and use it but plan on a little lower mileage (kilometers per liter or liters/100K) than 100% gasoline/petrol.

 

Yes, I agree. Just to reassure OP one more time, in Russia lot's of guys drive on RON92 which is Regular there and in reality it's more closer to RON87 (quality is low and they artificially increase octane number by adding additives - so in reality fuel is more like RON87). So I haven't heard of anyone having problems from using that kind of fuel. Also, in Japan, where my Fit is made and imported to US/Canada - they use Regular for Fits- which is RON91 in Japan.

 

There is some of that going on here also. They refine a lower grade fuel to 83.5 or so and then add 10% ethanol at the distribution terminal which raises the octane to the 87 that you see on the pump. After that some retailers market it as "Top Tier" because you are guaranteed at least 8% ethanol.

I use to know that minimum octane and RVP number fuel they could use before mixing with ethanol but I have forgotten it. I think it was 83.5 or 84. A few states outlawed that practice. South Dakota was one that I remember.

The big problem in discussing this in the US is there are so many variations by EPA area and by state, that there is not a firm set of rules in the US for automotive fuel.

If I remember correctly the last time I was in Australia they marketed 91 RON, 91 RON with ethanol, (primarily in Queensland and New South Wales), 95 RON, and 98 RON fuels. I remember that both BP, and Shell offered 98 RON. I can not tell you about other brands. Subtract about 4.5 from those numbers and you will get the approximate equivalent R+M/2 number used in the US and Canada.

Australia was making ethanol out of sugar cane, sorghum, and waste products rather than corn like we do here.

 

I live in Italy and E 10 fuels are not widely spread. On the contrary in France they are.
Jazz/ Fits tolerate these fuels.
I frankly don't know if these fuels are so good for the engine components.

@Fit2009 changing the fuel filter as you say is correct. On the Jazz it is a pain because it is for life and located along with the pump and not under the bonnet. Honda's where better in the mid 90s....

 

Unfortunately in my area we have had E-10 forced on us for the last 20 years. It is a geography thing. Because the boundary line where the government say it must be sold is only 17 miles away, many of us buy gasoline in the next county where we can still get 100% gasoline. Even in that area across the boundary line there are some places that sell E-10. That is why we never stop an any station that advertises "Top Tier" gasoline because it is guaranteed to contain at least 8% ETHANOL. Th locals call it craponol laced fuel here.

When they first forced E-10 on us in some areas of the US 20 years ago there was some problems with ethanol loosening up deposits in existing fuel systems. It also softened fuel lines and gaskets. Those problems are corrected in modern vehicles with the elimination of rubber lines in favor of hard plastic ones. I believe they are nylon. They also have come out with alcohol resistant rubber hose for replacing older flexible rubber lines.

The other issue is the reduction in mileage. While they claim the reduction is around 3-5%, our experience has been 10-11% reduction. I frequently drive longer trips (Chicago to Indianapolis, Chicago to Findlay, Ohio, and Chicago to Columbus). I plan those trips so I can arrive there empty and fill up with 100% real gas for the return. The mileage difference between going and returning is usually 10-11%. These results have always been the same across 20 years and 6 different GM vehicles. I only once took the Honda Fit to Columbus. I got 35.7 going there on E-10 and right at 40 mpg on the return using 100% real 87 octane gasoline.