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Earth Dreams DI and Reliability

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  #21  
Old 06-07-2014, 06:40 AM
Japan Tragic's Avatar
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Originally Posted by tmfit
JT, it is extremely common in the U.S. Actually this is what brought me to the Fit, we have a friend that flat tows a 2013 so we decided to go with the 15 to tow behind our RV but when I asked about towing the CVT found out they don't allow it. Since we likes the car so well I decided to tow the Fit using a tow dolly behind our RV.
yeah something like this would probably tow safer than flat towing and mean you dont have to worry about autos or CVTs


do motor homes / US not like those things?
 
  #22  
Old 06-07-2014, 01:22 PM
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Wink it's a CONSPIRACY

Originally Posted by GeorgeL
The Honda Jazz as sold in the UK and Australia have 1000kg tow capability listed in their owner's manuals. I guess the US Fit must have a weaker engine, transmission, and unibody....yeah, that's it.

You might want to read this article:

The Great American Anti-Towing Conspiracy | The Truth About Cars
Sure it's a CONSPIRACY, and "They" are out to get you.

The fit weights approx. 2500 pounds (1135 kg ), so go ahead and tow 1000 kg. The conspiracy is that Honda built their car's frame/brakes/engine/ transmission/suspension to be able to tow a vehicle that is nearly equal in weight. If you believe that, I got a bridge I want to sell you. Use just a little common sense, and don't accept everything you read.
If you buy an F150, or similar vehicle, they have something called their Tow Package that should be added. Why would a pickup designed to carry 1000 pounds (500kg) need a tow package, but a Fit is good to tow? Duh!

It must be a CONSPIRACY. Good luck to you.
 
  #23  
Old 06-07-2014, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by dave92029
Sure it's a CONSPIRACY, and "They" are out to get you.

The fit weights approx. 2500 pounds (1135 kg ), so go ahead and tow 1000 kg. The conspiracy is that Honda built their car's frame/brakes/engine/ transmission/suspension to be able to tow a vehicle that is nearly equal in weight. If you believe that, I got a bridge I want to sell you. Use just a little common sense, and don't accept everything you read.
If you buy an F150, or similar vehicle, they have something called their Tow Package that should be added. Why would a pickup designed to carry 1000 pounds (500kg) need a tow package, but a Fit is good to tow? Duh!

It must be a CONSPIRACY. Good luck to you.
Ummm...the 2014 F-150 is rated to tow up to 5000 pounds with a bumper mount ball without any additional tow package. The tow package is for heavy-duty towing, and includes a proper hitch receiver, transmission cooler, and some other towing related bits and pieces, and so makes it possible to tow more safely. Of course one needs suitable towing equipment and appurtenances for any vehicle and trailer.

Similarly, anybody who wishes to tow anything with a Fit would need to get a hitch, and would likewise be well advised to get a transmission cooler for an automatic transmission equipped Fit if they tow much. But that doesn't make the situation much different so far as I can tell. The only (rather obvious) conclusion is that the larger, heavier-duty truck can, especially with the appropriate hitch and such, tow a lot more than a small, lighter-duty passenger car. But there's no inherent reason why you cannot tow a modest trailer with a Fit safely and without damage to the car.

Perhaps conspiracy isn't quite the right word, but it is very strange that cars sold in the US are generally "forbidden" to tow while identical or nearly identical cars sold elsewhere in the world are rated to tow a decent amount.

Edit: I probably shouldn't say that the F-150 bumper mount can tow 5000 pounds; the web site wasn't all that clear on what its limitations were, and upon consideration 5000 pounds seems awfully high for a bumper mount! It did clearly say, however, that the F-150 could tow up to 5000 pounds without adding the tow package, though—perhaps using an aftermarket hitch.
 

Last edited by DrewE; 06-07-2014 at 03:56 PM.
  #24  
Old 06-07-2014, 03:34 PM
tmfit's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Japan Tragic
yeah something like this would probably tow safer than flat towing and mean you dont have to worry about autos or CVTs


do motor homes / US not like those things?
Yes they are common over here, this is what we will be using to tow the Fit. A very large percentage of folks who drive motorhomes pull a vehicle although the preferred way is flat towed (which is what we did) tow dollys are disliked because that is another set of tires to worry aboutand a spare to have and some campgrounds have limited space so a dolly can be hard to find a place to park alomg with the car.
 
  #25  
Old 06-07-2014, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DrewE
Ummm...the 2014 F-150 is rated to tow up to 5000 pounds with a bumper mount ball without any additional tow package. The tow package is for heavy-duty towing, and includes a proper hitch receiver, transmission cooler, and some other towing related bits and pieces, and so makes it possible to tow more safely. Of course one needs suitable towing equipment and appurtenances for any vehicle and trailer.

Similarly, anybody who wishes to tow anything with a Fit would need to get a hitch, and would likewise be well advised to get a transmission cooler for an automatic transmission equipped Fit if they tow much. But that doesn't make the situation much different so far as I can tell. The only (rather obvious) conclusion is that the larger, heavier-duty truck can, especially with the appropriate hitch and such, tow a lot more than a small, lighter-duty passenger car. But there's no inherent reason why you cannot tow a modest trailer with a Fit safely and without damage to the car.

Perhaps conspiracy isn't quite the right word, but it is very strange that cars sold in the US are generally "forbidden" to tow while identical or nearly identical cars sold elsewhere in the world are rated to tow a decent amount.

Edit: I probably shouldn't say that the F-150 bumper mount can tow 5000 pounds; the web site wasn't all that clear on what its limitations were, and upon consideration 5000 pounds seems awfully high for a bumper mount! It did clearly say, however, that the F-150 could tow up to 5000 pounds without adding the tow package, though—perhaps using an aftermarket hitch.
Drew your comments indicate that you have towing experience.

Even if the by some miracle the Honda Fit's frame/engine/ transmission can handle towing 1000kg load, I dare say you might find yourself in a ditch or worse trying to stop that 1000kg load with the Fits' brakes.
Please don't let me deter you, go right ahead, and hook up that 1000kg load to your 1135kg FIT, just make sure that you have lots of health/life/ and property damage insurance before you leave. Like you said, you read it on the internet, that you could do it, even though the manufacturer said not to try it.
 
  #26  
Old 06-08-2014, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by dave92029
Drew your comments indicate that you have towing experience.

Even if the by some miracle the Honda Fit's frame/engine/ transmission can handle towing 1000kg load, I dare say you might find yourself in a ditch or worse trying to stop that 1000kg load with the Fits' brakes.
Please don't let me deter you, go right ahead, and hook up that 1000kg load to your 1135kg FIT, just make sure that you have lots of health/life/ and property damage insurance before you leave. Like you said, you read it on the internet, that you could do it, even though the manufacturer said not to try it.
That 1000kg figure for the UK and Aus assumes that the trailer has brakes. For unbraked trailers the maximum is half that.

My old Datsun 510 weighed quite a lot less than a Fit, had less HP, yet easily handled an unbraked utility trailer carrying two motorcycles and gear. Acceleration was lower and the driver had to use additional care to assure safe braking distance but this is no different than any towing situation.

The real reason behind the apparent "fragility" of compact cars in the US is a combination of tort liability and a desire on the part of the manufacturers to sell heavier and more expensive vehicles. You aren't going to convince someone in the $10/gal UK to buy a F-150 just to tow his small caravan now and then so in order to compete with other manufacturers Honda is smart to state more realistic data.
 
  #27  
Old 06-08-2014, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 8strung
Still not sure about fuel diluting the oil, but it's a start. Thoughts?

Cars listed here
Fuel isn't what gets past the piston rings, it's combustion byproducts and it's called "blowby". ALL engines suffer from it (including DI), and that's why there's a PCV to relieve that pressure. With no relief, the crankcase pressure would continue to build either until detonation or engine stoppage.
 
  #28  
Old 06-08-2014, 08:05 PM
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I think some unburnt but injected fuel will eventually sip down the cylinder walls into the carter. It's not a big deal as it will evaporate when engine stays at the operating temperature for a while.
 
  #29  
Old 06-08-2014, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Strumbone
Fuel isn't what gets past the piston rings, it's combustion byproducts and it's called "blowby". ALL engines suffer from it (including DI), and that's why there's a PCV to relieve that pressure. With no relief, the crankcase pressure would continue to build either until detonation or engine stoppage.
Okay, I was mistaken. I was under the impression that the high pressure fuel injection shot past the piston rings. Thanks!
 
  #30  
Old 06-08-2014, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 8strung
Okay, I was mistaken. I was under the impression that the high pressure fuel injection shot past the piston rings. Thanks!
The injectors inject air-fuel mixture on the intake stroke when the piston is moving down increasing the volume and creating the negative pressure (sucking the mixture from the intake vale passage).
 
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