VTC Actuator Cold start noise
 

Any body else getting a loud cranking noise during a cold start?

Powertrain warranty?
Take it to the dealer.

There's a whole thread over here: https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/3rd-...ase-issue.html

Been getting these noises before my first oil change. Dealer "could not replicate" so I left things as is. 47k miles later and no issues whatsoever. I've heard of others having the VTC replaced, with noises only coming back a while later. Toyota has issues like these with some Matrixes and Corollas from the past. I would not break a sweat over it.

Nearly 50K miles and mine still does it occasionally. Mostly when it's cooler/cold, but sometimes when it's warm ambient temps, too.

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(OP: if you are still around): It is the bendix gear inside your starter failing. It is a VERY common issue with the Denso starters in the Vibe/Matrix/Corolla. Mine tended to only do it when it started getting cold out. Once the summer came, it stopped grinding or did so only occasionally. Once the following winter came (a year later), it began to get worse, so I replaced the starter. I now live in a warm weather climate, and my new (refurbished) starter began to make the noise 3 years after it was installed. I know it won't become critical for some time to come. Nonetheless, yes, the noise you hear is as if you turned your key to start the car, not knowing the car was already running. The grind sounds just about the same.

2015-2016 Fit VTC Actuator and Timing Chain Honda Goodwill Replacement
 

If anybody is experiencing an issue with the VTC actuator and are over warranty coverage, like me (85,000 miles), then I highly recommend having your car evaluated by the dealer to this concern. They quoted me around $1200 to replace it, but cost went up to over $1800 after they found out the timing chain was stretched (I don't know how the chain stretched, but I want to blame the actuator). Afterwards, I complained directly to American Honda telling the customer representative in a sincere manner that I can understand that it's my fault if this specific part failed, but Honda updated the part number to a completely different number. I referred him to the service bulletin 16-088. I even brought up that many individuals online were experiencing the same issue of the engine making the rattling noise.

In all honesty, my family only buy Honda's and this is the first Honda that I've experienced such a major issue. He confirmed this by checking service records of all my vehicles, and gave me a deal on covering majority of the cost. He did notice that I don't bring in my vehicles unless it's for a alignment but I told him that I'm a car enthusiast and do basic maintenance at home. I had to pay a total of $581.89.

I just wanted to update you all to see if this will help you.

Nice that you got help from Honda on this. Your calm demeanor & homework on the problem surely help your cause.

Good for you! Honda has been all over the place as far as out-of-warranty issues (GK starter failure is one of them), so it's encouraging that they gave your situation some consideration.

was it the noise you were getting to fixed? cause i’ve read it comes back. i don’t plan on fixing mine.

It was the noise that was fixed. Honda updated the VTC actuator to a newer part back in February of 2017.

Well, for people who got it replaced before the new version was available, yeah, pretty good bet it will come back.

I'm afraid most people will find that the noise will return when the mornings get cold again, only to find out it was the bendix gear in their starter all along and not the timing gear actuator.

Well, if it IS the starter, then BOTH of the starters I've had in my car make the same noise. Replacing the starter (for a different issue) made no difference.

Over what period of time did you replace the Denso starter and have the noise come back again, and was it with another Denso starter? I replaced my OEM Denso starter in my Vibe 3 years ago. I now live in a warm and dry climate all year long. I recently had 2 or 3 incidents of the bendix gear grinding. I don't know what the issue is with these Denso starters, but it is very common in those cars that have them. I had the Denso starter go bad in my Fit and I replaced it with a rebuilt one from Pep Boys due to the lifetime warranty. While there are some documented issues with the timing gear actuators in Honda and Toyota engines, I've done enough research to know that dealerships are replacing them willy-nilly and not taking the time to understand the noise reported by owners and after doing a pretty invasive procedure, not solving the problem. I know this first hand since my local GM dealer replaced my actuator (at their cost) with no result at all. It seems to me that a failing timing gear actuator would make the grinding noise all the time, not just intermittently during cold/humid mornings.

It's definitely not all the time.
Hondas VTC actuator noise only lasts for about a second or two at startup, approximately the length of time it takes to build oil pressure and feed it into the cam gear.

That's about the same time the starter will make its noise if it makes noise.

The sounds are similar but different. They happen at approximately the same time, during engine startup. Many techs probably haven't heard a starter noise so they may not know it can happen, but many of us get to hear VTC rattle on other engines frequently.
(I read about the 3rd gen starter noise here in this forum long before I actually got to hear one in person)

Honda has a TSB about the VTC noise so that's likely the go-to repair for many ---especially when the dealer tech can't duplicate your noise to verify it.
There is no tsb for starter noises.

Glad to hear Honda at least did the right thing for one customer......thinking on the "noise," my car only did it one time over the past winter. Did it several times the year before....go figure...although we did have a pretty mild winter here in east TN this past one. Glad they took care of ya, OP, hope the fix lasts.

u have to leave the car over night. mine only makes the rattle once in the am.

I know this thread has been kinda dead but here's a TSB link:

https://testing-public.carmd.com/Tsb...118695/A16-088

good plan lol.. but im stuck with da GK for another yr minimum it looks like..

must be nice.. :nod: dis thread just reminded me y i didnt want another honda.. i hope dis is not da case on the 10th gen civic Si engines too.. right now looking for a car for my kids to use.

Thanks for the TSB.

My Fit is just starting to demonstrate this symptom.
But man, looking at that TSB doesn't make me feel good about having the work done. Looks like a very complicated replacement procedure, that if not done correctly could really make a lot of things worse.

yep. thus ive not gotten this done as there is absolutely no guarantee it will not do this again. as long as you know the rattle is normal on this car its fine, you'll ive with it. i have the past 2+ yrs.

do u remember the GE's spring replacement recall? when dealer did it on my 09 GE, came home with a broken car.

do you know if the car was pulling up a code ? also , the timing chain being stretched is curious , one of the reasons i don't like bringing
my car to the dealer , somehow they seem to always find stuff that needs replacing . least that's been my experience

Hello,

I get this loud rattle when I start my car but only on the first start. When I called a Honda dealership a few years ago I was told by their tech that my Accord had a defective part, I believe the actuator is what he said, and that I didn't have to replace the part. The tech stated the defective part would not impact the long term health of my engine. I was a low on money so I didn't bother following up. The vehicle continues to run fine but when I was googling the issue the other day someone else stated the problem could cause an engine failure.

I took the Accord to a local mechanic, not Honda, and he didn't see anything wrong with the starter or actuator but I'm not sure if he really looked. Also, he may have had a problem duplicating the sound since it wasn't a cold start.

I really need advice and I'm low on money. Do I need to replace the Actuator or was the first Honda tech correct?

Thank you!

If this only happens during a cold start like the video below then it is definitely the vtc actuator. Many people on the forums say it's just an annoyance issue. Replace if you don't like the sound.

You're posting in the wrong place. This is a Honda Fit forum. You should be asking your questions in a Honda Accord forum.

VTC actuator startup noise in 2017 Fits, too!
 

A couple months ago my 2017 Fit, with 50k miles, began occasionally making the gravelly grinding noise at startup after sitting overnight. This was late summer & early fall. I did the research and found the symptoms matched the vtc actuator issue of 2015 & 16 fits, but mine was a '17, and I didn't find any reports of problems for 2017's. When it started doing it more consistently I took it to dealer and after sitting there two nights they heard the noise, diagnosed the faulty vtc actuator and replaced it with the new part under the 5yr/60k mi. drivetrain. I knew the re-designed actuator had been put into use in Feb 2017 so I asked some questions. Did my engine originally have the older design actuator? Yes, it did. When was my 2017 fit built? Dec. 2016 (and engine slightly earlier). So problem caused by the original actuator design can occur in 2017 Fits.

thanks for sharing 73honda350!

that is rather sad news, but good to know for those who need that info

Hey 73Honda350: I had a 1973 Honda 350 Four (motorcycle) in Candy Bacchus Olive. Wonderful MC.

I posted about this issue back in 2016. My 2015 GK started making the VTC rattle at about 25K miles, but only when it was very cold, that is, below 20 degrees. I took it to the dealer, but the mechanic could not reproduce the sound. I had him listen to a recording I had made of the noise, but he said he couldn't do anything unless he could personally document the noise. I took it in a while later for another issue and talked to the service manager, and he discouraged me from leaving it overnight since it wouldn't make the noise reliably. So I decided to live with it. I moved mid 2017 to the Oregon coast where the temps are typically around 55 degrees. In about mid 2018, the symptom began to occur about every third start. It has gotten progressively worse until now it happens on every start if the car has been sitting longer than a couple of hours. In the morning, it's _really loud_, enough to scare my wife every time. I worry that the engine will fail soon, given how the sound has progressed. The post that mentioned a stretched timing chain made me even more worried. I've read through the procedure for replacing the VTC tensioner, and I'm concerned that if I have the job done, it be done by a truly competent mechanic. It will take a careful mechanic to do the job well. My plan is to take the car in for evaluation, and if the Honda dealer can confirm the VTC tensioner is the issue, I will make my case with Honda that the car has had the problem from early on and is presently so consistent that the car cannot be sold and may be in danger of catastrophic failure. Maybe they'll do something for me, even though the car now has 95K miles on it. It's been a great car, and I would love to see it go another 100K, minimum.

Take it to a Honda dealership. It should be repaired at no cost to you. Hopefully the original dealership documented your original reporting of the problem (their brushing you off on the problem is inexcusable). If t was originally reported under warranty they should be under the hook to still fix it, even if the warranty has expired. It is covered under the 5 year powertrain warranty, if that is still in effect, but shouldn't matter IF the original dealership documented the problem.

I hope you are right. The dealer who tried to document the problem when the car was under warranty did document my complaint, but since the dealership mechanic could not reproduce it, it's hard to know how much weight the report will carry. I do have an audio recording of the noise from that time.
I plan to take it in this week and post about the outcome. I should have taken it in early this summer. We bought it in mid 2014, so it has just gone past the 5-year mark. When you have to work a regular job, it's hard to find the time to take the car in to have a non-fatal symptom diagnosed. Plus, the local Honda dealer charges $45 to diagnose a problem. But I need to get this looked at. It's certainly not getting better!

$45 bucks?! My dealer charges $110

That makes me feel better. No sarcasm intended. As they say, "It's good money if you can get it." Never been sure who "they" are. The car goes in Thursday, 1/23/2020 at 9 am.

I obtained dealer confirmation that a faulty VTC (variable valve timing control) is the cause of the rattle at start up that I have been experiencing since my Fit was quite new. The noise started when the car had been driven 8,700 miles in early of 2015, but at that time the noise only occurred in very cold weather (below 15 deg.) and only occasionally. The dealer was unable to duplicate the symptom in early March 2015 when I took it in. I do have a video recording the problem and showing the odometer reading 8,700 miles. The car has now been 96K miles, so it is out of warranty. The sound happens every morning now, and if ther car is parked for more than an hour, it happens again. It's bad. The dealer quoted $1,004 to repair the problem by installing a new VTC actuator.
Enough background. What do I do now? I am hoping Honda will pay for the repair based on my documentation that the problem existed early in the car's history. Who do I contact and how do I proceed?