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New Injectors???

  #1  
Old 09-04-2018, 10:40 AM
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New Injectors???

My son's 2015 Fit had the Check Engine light come on. Honda just called and said they're doing an oil change and injector cleaning for $240. She said there is a lot of carbon and recommended Stewart's non-ethanol gas once a month. I didn't know there was such a thing.

If the injector cleaning doesn't work, they'll have to replace the injectors and adjust the valves for $1,700. I see injectors online from Honda Parts Now for $661, with a list price of $946. She said they're $1,000. This seems ridiculous with only 84,000 miles on the car. His Civic went 305,000 with the original injectors. If I buy the injectors and install them myself, there's no guarantee that will solve the "lean" problem. These two Fits have not been as reliable as our previous Hondas.

Any opinions?
 
  #2  
Old 09-04-2018, 11:01 AM
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Two things...

1. Call Honda corp and see if they will help with the expense. There's a TSB for faulty injectors on 2015 and early 2016 Fit's - TSB #A18-027
2. Welcome to Direct Injection. The carbon fouling is a real problem with no good solution. Fuel treatments will do nothing as the carbon is formed on the backside of the intake valves.

Good luck!
 
  #3  
Old 09-04-2018, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by GAFIT View Post
Two things...

1. Call Honda corp and see if they will help with the expense. There's a TSB for faulty injectors on 2015 and early 2016 Fit's - TSB #A18-027
2. Welcome to Direct Injection. The carbon fouling is a real problem with no good solution. Fuel treatments will do nothing as the carbon is formed on the backside of the intake valves.

Good luck!
Thanks! I'll see what I can find out.
 
  #4  
Old 09-04-2018, 11:45 AM
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The original 2015 injectors were defective and Honda re-designed them and were replacing them for free - as long as you were still under warranty. After the warranty expires it's totally at your cost. If you have the original 2015 injectors then frankly I would consider getting the injectors replaced whether Honda covers it or not. They're a ticking time bomb and can destroy the catalytic converter when they go bad.

The carbon fouling is a potential with this kind of engine. It is made worse by using poor quality gasoline, poor quality oil, or overly long oil changes. Stewarts is not listed as a top tier gas and so the quality of what they are selling is questionable.

Top Tier Gas
 
  #5  
Old 09-04-2018, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by woof View Post
The original 2015 injectors were defective and Honda re-designed them and were replacing them for free - as long as you were still under warranty. After the warranty expires it's totally at your cost. If you have the original 2015 injectors then frankly I would consider getting the injectors replaced whether Honda covers it or not. They're a ticking time bomb and can destroy the catalytic converter when they go bad.

The carbon fouling is a potential with this kind of engine. It is made worse by using poor quality gasoline, poor quality oil, or overly long oil changes. Stewarts is not listed as a top tier gas and so the quality of what they are selling is questionable.

Top Tier Gas
Thanks for that. If this was my car, it wouldn't be so urgent, but my son has to drive to work every day, and it's past due for the annual inspection.

EDIT: I got a call form the dealer. They changed the oil and did the injector cleaning, and it seems to be running right, and the ck eng light is off. We'll have to drive it for a while and see if that did the trick. Then we can get it inspected. I'm going to put Techron in both cars every few thousand miles.
 

Last edited by SilverEX15; 09-05-2018 at 07:30 AM.
  #6  
Old 09-05-2018, 12:00 PM
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We picked up the car today. It cost $295.81 for an oil change (synthetic) and injector cleaning. They admitted that the original 2015 injectors have had problems. They said that carbon build-up is the problem, and using Stewart's non-ethanol gas once a month will help. I asked about Chevron Techron, and they thought it was a waste of money.

Assuming the injectors eventually go bad, I'll either replace them myself (available online for $662) or have a local guy do the work. Now we're hoping it will pass inspection on Friday without another trip to Honda.
 
  #7  
Old 09-05-2018, 12:08 PM
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I'm hoping for the best!!!

I fail to see how a non-ethanol fuel will help. I'm a big hater when it comes to ethanol, but not for fuel system deposit reasons. Honda even says to use Top-Tier fuel in the manual. Part of the requirement to be a top tier fuel supplier is the 10% ethanol content.

Regardless...good luck!
 
  #8  
Old 09-05-2018, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by GAFIT View Post
I'm hoping for the best!!!

I fail to see how a non-ethanol fuel will help. I'm a big hater when it comes to ethanol, but not for fuel system deposit reasons. Honda even says to use Top-Tier fuel in the manual. Part of the requirement to be a top tier fuel supplier is the 10% ethanol content.

Regardless...good luck!
Yes, it is hard to get a straight, accurate answer to anything technical. It looks like most of the local gas is not Top-Tier, so I'll have to find stations that sell it. I've never heard anything good about ethanol in gas - unless you're a corn farmer. Corn on the cob is now at least fifty cents an ear. Ridiculous!

Top-Tier -
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...h-extra-price/
 

Last edited by SilverEX15; 09-05-2018 at 12:17 PM.
  #9  
Old 09-05-2018, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by GAFIT View Post
Part of the requirement to be a top tier fuel supplier is the 10% ethanol content.
Simply not true. There is no requirement whatsoever for gasoline to contain ethanol to be rated Top Tier. Most of the stations which I go to and which are rated Top Tier only add ethanol to the lower grades of gasoline - not premium which is usually ethanol free. They only use ethanol in the regular grades because they're required to by government for environmental reasons.

I believe that ethanol was a requirement of Top Tier once upon a time, but hasn't been for some time. Currently Top Tier is a measure of detergent additives and proven detergent performance to meet certain standards. Ethanol isn't even mentioned on the Top Tier web pages.

 
  #10  
Old 09-05-2018, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by woof View Post
Simply not true. There is no requirement whatsoever for gasoline to contain ethanol to be rated Top Tier. Most of the stations which I go to and which are rated Top Tier only add ethanol to the lower grades of gasoline - not premium which is usually ethanol free. They only use ethanol in the regular grades because they're required to by government for environmental reasons.

I believe that ethanol was a requirement of Top Tier once upon a time, but hasn't been for some time. Currently Top Tier is a measure of detergent additives and proven detergent performance to meet certain standards. Ethanol isn't even mentioned on the Top Tier web pages.
I got that information from a petroleum engineer. It's also right here on Top Tiers Site...

https://www.toptiergas.com/deposit-control/

Scroll down and you'll see that the base fuel MUST contain 10% ethanol +/- 1%

Edit - I don't suppose that means a Top Tier station could not also sell non-ethanol fuel I suppose?
 

Last edited by GAFIT; 09-05-2018 at 06:43 PM.
  #11  
Old 09-05-2018, 08:49 PM
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And yet the premium fuel I buy here from Tier 1 stations does NOT contain ethanol (labelled on the pump). It is a Tier 1 requirement that for certification that all grades of gasolines sold at all gas stations operated by any Tier 1 certified company must only have Tier 1 certified gasolines in all their pumps. I'm confused. Anyway, I've sent an email off to Tier 1 asking for clarification on the ethanol issue. I'll let you know what they say.
 
  #12  
Old 09-05-2018, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by woof View Post
And yet the premium fuel I buy here from Tier 1 stations does NOT contain ethanol (labelled on the pump). It is a Tier 1 requirement that for certification that all grades of gasolines sold at all gas stations operated by any Tier 1 certified company must only have Tier 1 certified gasolines in all their pumps. I'm confused. Anyway, I've sent an email off to Tier 1 asking for clarification on the ethanol issue. I'll let you know what they say.
Very interested! Please do because I'm no expert and personally don't like ethanol.

If you get a chance, can you snap a few pics of the station and pumps at the Top Tier station with ethanol free premium? I don't doubt you at all, but it would be nice to have some visual proof in case this comes up again.
 
  #13  
Old 09-05-2018, 09:28 PM
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Well my gas station is about 150 feet away from me but I'm kind of lazy and don't feel like walking over at the moment so I refer you to their web page:

Co-OP Gas

This page gives all the ethanol content for their gasolines, and their Top Tier designation is clearly stated.

Shell Canada is also Top Tier and their premium does not contain ethanol. I've occasionally filled up there.
 
  #14  
Old 09-06-2018, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by woof View Post
Well my gas station is about 150 feet away from me but I'm kind of lazy and don't feel like walking over at the moment so I refer you to their web page:

Co-OP Gas

This page gives all the ethanol content for their gasolines, and their Top Tier designation is clearly stated.

Shell Canada is also Top Tier and their premium does not contain ethanol. I've occasionally filled up there.
I wonder if there's a difference between the ethanol law in Canada and the USA.
 
  #15  
Old 09-06-2018, 07:11 AM
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More on the e10 mix concerns. There have been numerous studies that find it virtually no different than straight gasoline, except for it being better emissions wise. I can't imagine why the dealer would suggest an e0 gasoline as a cleaner alternative.
See: Emissions based study
​​​​​And: Study focused on engine performance and wear
 
  #16  
Old 09-06-2018, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by knope View Post
More on the e10 mix concerns. There have been numerous studies that find it virtually no different than straight gasoline, except for it being better emissions wise. I can't imagine why the dealer would suggest an e0 gasoline as a cleaner alternative.
See: Emissions based study
​​​​​And: Study focused on engine performance and wear
I challenge anyone to read through that entire article on emissions. Aside from all the tech-talk, didn't the author ever hear of paragraphs?

I've always said that ethanol is good for farmers. Period.
 
  #17  
Old 09-06-2018, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by SilverEX15 View Post

I've always said that ethanol is good for farmers. Period.

 
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