I have no issues upshifting at all low rpms. Sounds like you're not rev matching on your upshift. Take a video of yourself driving w the camera on your rpm gauge, please.

 

Out of curiosity, how low do you shift?

I have missed the rev match plenty of times on the 1-2 upshift, and yes, that feels similar to what I'm describing. I thought that was the problem for a few days and just really focused on matching the RPMs. Since then, I've sunk many smoothly matched shifts as well and I really don't think that's the cause. In those cases, it will engage smoothly, accelerate smoothly, give a little shudder at 2k-ish, and then continue accelerating smoothly until I shift to 3rd. It only happens in 2nd gear.

I'll try to get a vid. I don't think my camera will pick up the shudder, but I'll do my best. Thanks for the input everyone!

 

also...

as all of us found out...it take no effort for the clutch to kick in....

if you can clutch in 1/3 down you can shift. I think as long as you can catch the next year by shifting faster by clutch work and hand work, you maybe be able to manage without "rev matching" as you up shift.

honestly; driving manual as long as I have... this is the first time i heard of upshift rev matching.... RM and HT to me is a downshift thing. Is there another term for it? i mean its just maintaining the rev from one gear to the other...

 

Wait what do you mean rev match on upshift? I think the terminology is confusing me.

 

Each gear at a given speed will be a certain RPM. If you clutch-out too high or too low, you will get drivetrain shock as it will need to compensate to get to the correct RPM. If you clutch-out at the correct timing after the revs drop, the RPMs should not jerk down or up to compensate.

This car has a clutch delay valve which makes it tricky to time (to me at least). It doesn't feel that natural to me.

 

It depends if there is anyone behind me or not. If someone isn't tailgating me, i'll shift around 1800 rpm or so and keep the revs low.

 

Now maybe I'm interpreting wrong and forgive my toddler-like explanation here. I don't mean to over simplify:
When you are at 10mph in first gear and turning at 3k, you will shift to second. When you get to second at 10mph, the engine has to be turning more slowly, near 1.5k, for the clutch to engage smoothly in 2nd gear. I was pretty sure that's what he meant be rev match, right? Letting the engine speed slow enough to engage a higher gear at that speed.

If you engage the clutch at too low or high of an RPM for the speed you're traveling/gear you're in, the car will sort of buck while everything equalizes. We've all felt it, and that isn't what I'm describing in this thread.

 

Yes - you explained what I was trying to say. But, the shuddering issue in 2nd I noticed happens after a mismatched upshift.

 

So you've felt the shuddering too, but only after a mismatched upshift? I'm not saying that isn't my problem, just that I've been extremely conscious of this and focus on letting the clutch out at the right RPM. I have felt the shudder even when I get a smooth clutch release at the right RPM. It seems to happen more after matching to 1,800 than it does after matching 2,200 or so (which is the difference between shifting from 1st gear at 3k vs. 4k).... did that make an sense?

I will try to get a video tonight.

I'm sorry if some of my questions seem stupid; all of you have great input though so, I'm asking everything. I'm also sorry that my explanations get so convoluted...

Thanks guys!

 

*clapping* Bravo! YES!!! This is how you drive a Honda. Thank God you said it!

This thread has been driving me nuts. I have know idea why OP wants to shift at such low RPM's. I can only guess gas mileage. This is a high revving rice burner! If you want low-end torque then go buy an American V8 powered vehicle or a diesel for crap's sake...

sorry for the rant... no offense intended, OP. And there have been times when I too have noticed the hesitation in 2nd gear, but not often because I rev it higher and don't hang out in 2nd...

I love this little car! I have been in love with Honda since the very first Civic came out!

 

Haha! No offense taken. I was shifting low for gas mileage, but also because it doesn't really move in first gear past 3k for all that rev noise. 3k seemed like a great point to shift to second, and THEN rev it to 6k I started the thread because low revs or not, the shudder seems out of place and I wanted to see if others knew what I was talking about. Some said yes, some said no, and then Honda contacted me to get it diagnosed.

I do freaking love this car and have a blast driving it.

This isn't the first manual I've driven, but it is the first one I've owned and driven daily (also my first Honda). I don't know what's normal and what is a problem so, "New Thread"

 

This sounds right to me...

 

I don't understand why anyone is paying attention to what RPM the tach is landing at on upshift? Unless you're racing or something and you want to see if it lands you in VTEC. There's no right RPM, the right RPM is whatever RPM you want to let the clutch out at. It's one fast fluid motion as the shifter is moving between gears the clutch is coming in and out at the same time.

Yall shifting slow or something? I don't get it. I mean yeah the car will move a little between shifts but it doesn't matter. You can just roll on and off the clutch a tiny bit to smooth it out, it won't hurt anything much, it's not a 6 puck unsprung lol

Rev-matching is for downshifting. You blip the gas to match the engine speed to the faster transmission speed the lower gear is going to have.

Also, just put the clutch pedal to the floor when you shift. Sure you can maybe get away with only 1/3 drop but your synchros will thank you later if you just use the whole travel.

 

Wrong. It does matter when you let the clutch out on upshifts. How well you time your upshifts will determine the life on your clutch/flywheel/throwout bearing/transmission. AWD/4WD owners will feel the drivetrain shock even moreso because of the added strain.

Simplified, each time you upshift, the revs decrease in the next gear; revs don't continue to go up and up. It could be that your timing to clutch-out matches the timing of the revs dropping, or if you've been driving manual your whole life you already do this subconsciously. Doesn't change the mechanics of how a transmission works, though.

 

i have 800 miles on the car now (400 or so since the new clutch/trans fiasco) and i do not notice a 2nd gear lag. i must admit, i am being gentle on the new clutch making sure it breaks in properly.

tofu, not sure what you mean by revmatching on the upshift. we are unable to shock the drivetrain on our cars because of the CDV in the clutch master. the CDV essentially make the clutch a "fusable link" in the drivetrain, eliminating the driveline shock, and various warranty claims that come with it. i agree with you, the CDV makes the clutch feel vague.

tofu, we are not too far from each other, so i could meetup with you. i would be curious if you have an issue with your car.

 

i dont have any issues with my car. it drives normal. OP is having shudder issues.

Let me try a different approach. Let someone who doesn't know how to drive stick learn on your car. You think CDV will save your drivetrain from shock? Zero jerkiness?

 

oops, sorry. i flipped through the thread quickly, i thought you were the OP.

in that scenario, the CDV will burn the clutch if the noob dumps the clutch too quickly, up or down shift. the clutch in this car has one of the smallest OD friction discs of any honda in recent years.

once in gear, there will be minimal shock do to the soft motor and transmission mounts and lower grip tires. remove the CDV, put some solid mounts and race tires on the car, and that's when stuff will break.

that being said, no car is idiot proof...

 

Welp, after reading this 10 times, I don't quite know what to think. I took more of a city route today to experiment and I still feel it... I'm just going to drive it more and see if I can pinpoint any other conditions that cause it. I'll also try to get a video of the tach. Just want to thank everyone again for jumping in.

As far as the "revmatch" conversation, I think it's just semantics. On that note, these are roughly the differences in RPM that I've observed the most. I usually shift around 3.5k and observe:

1st-2nd: -1,500rpm (ex. shift out of 1st at 3.5k, let clutch out in 2nd at 2k)
2nd-3rd: -1,000rpm (in at 3,500rpm, out at 2,500)
3rd-4th: -750rpm
4th-5th: -500rpm
5th-6th: -200rpm

All numbers are approximate and only apply when shifting around 3.5k. The difference in RPM grows as I shift higher up in the range (i.e. shift out of 2nd at 4.5k and the difference to 3rd is now -1,250rpm). Does this seem way off from what you all see in your cars?

 

If you're blipping throttle on upshifts you're shifting too slow. 1-2-3 you need to be a little quicker through the gears. If you shift at a decent pace the RPM will drop exactly where it needs to be. If you're too slow between gears the RPM will drop below the sweet spot. Transmission engineers are paid a lot of money to make sure this happens seamlessly.

You blip throttle on upshifts when you have a super light flywheel and clutch setup and don't feel like banging gears because the revs drop too fast LOL but on a stock trans Fit you should not have to be doing this unless your shift gets interrupted midway by some traffic shenanigans.

My 100k mile factory clutch that still chirps 300tw summer tires off the line and on the 1-2 says my technique is fine. Yes i've been driving manual for a long time.

 

You are both talking about the same thing. One of you is emphasizing "revmatch" to mean "blipping throttle" and increasing RPM and the other is using "revmatch" to describe the RPM dropping. In both definitions, the RPM has to "match" the gear and the speed, whether up shifting or down shifting. It's just semantics.