I've noticed that my second gear sort of judders a little bit at around 2,200rpms @ less than 25 mph (hope that made sense). I would describe it as two jerks right after one another.

In onomatopoeia, I'd describe it this way: vrooooo-oom-oom-oooooooom, as opposed to a smooth vroooooooooom.

Full disclosure, I am still getting the hang of driving this car smoothly, and there have been some jerky gear changes associated with that process. Nothing too bad, no stalls or crazy over-rev/lugs. Just some jerky shifts. This however feels different. I notice it even when I get a smooth shift into 2nd. Further, if I put it in second and let the rpms drop to 1,200, I can accelerate pretty smoothly, but it's still sort of a jerky gear to be in.

Does this sound like something is wrong, or is it just the nature of second gear on a low geared manual transmission? I am still in the process of determining how much of the jerkiness is caused by operator error. I haven't contacted the dealer yet because I figured I'd found out if anybody else experiences this.

P.S. I love the M/T anyway. That 3rd gear is a fun one!

 

Is this only under fairly hard acceleration, or only under quite mild acceleration, or anytime? Do you get the same sensation if you drive like a granny? When it happens, does the traction control light blink on?

I can't think of anything offhand in a manual transmission that could cause a particular gear to hesitate at a particular speed. Lash is generally more noticeable in lower gears, so if you're not really accelerating, that may be the cause...but that's hardly typical of normal driving unless you spend lots of time trundling around parking lots or something similar. I can think of lots of things that might cause an engine to hesitate, but I wouldn't generally expect that to be gear-dependent, aside from some operating conditions being more common in certain gears than others.

 

Sounds like operator error especially if your still learning, or like vsa is kicking in but I doubt your breaking rubber. Good choice in learning a MT, true car control method. Plus you can brag about it to the CVT guys. MT FTW!!

 

Enlighten me please: lashing is when you take your foot off the accelerator in a lower gear and feel the engine start to break, or not at all?

It does seem to happen when I drive like a granny, but I'm usually accelerating fairly quickly... This is my 5th day behind the wheel of the thing so I was sort of waiting to see if it smooths out as I get better on the shifter/clutch. Then I will know it was just me.

And I'm with you Archaic! I think this car is ruined with the CVT. At that point, you are really just steering, not driving. I test drove a CVT and without even seeing the 6 speed, I knew which one I was buying. What a blast it is to drive. When you hit a smooth shift and press the accelerator... man! I came from an A/T mustang and this thing is so much more fun to drive. Adult go-karts!

 

You need to be more authoritative with the gas pedal. Especially at low rpm, car will engine brake and car will chug. Gearing isn't the greatest for leaving it in gear at low rpm, so you need to keep your foot barely on the gas pedal to prevent that.

 

Basically, yes. Lash refers to looseness in a mechanical system; in this case, the (unavoidable to some extent) play in gears as they mesh. It's the "dead space" that's noticeable when transitioning between the engine driving the wheels and the wheels driving the engine (when coasting or engine braking).

In the valves, lash ("valve lash" or "valve clearance") is an intentional slight gap/looseness between the rocker arms and the valve stems that is necessary to be sure that the valves will close fully under all operating conditions.

 

I get this EXACT same thing, and I thought it was just me. It's only in 2nd gear, and just like you said it's two jerks right after another. For me, it has only happened under very light acceleration, so that's what I chalked it up to. Also, it seemed to only happen my 3rd tank of gas, which I filled a Thornton's and not my usual Shell. I'm not sure if that actually had anything to do with it though.

 

I've been trying to recreate this with no luck. I'll keep trying with light acceleration.

I have noticed that I'm jerky when accelerating from a dead stop. It's like no matter how I try the clutch bites sharply at the end of the pedal release. It jerks a little then, but it's more like my shocks jolting from my rough technique. Still feeling it out.

 

Just gas the shit out of it and drop the clutch, rev the bitch to redline while hitting vtec. It's a honda it's made to rev high and all your peak power is at about 6200 rpms anyway.

 

I've been really paying attention the past two days and I do think there is something there. I can shift smoothly into second and even then I feel a slight judder just over 2,000rpms (about 22mph). It's not too bad, but it is noticeable. I'm not talking about jerky shifting. I mean the shift was smooth and the clutch is all the way out, I start to accelerate normally, and I feel this little kick when the tach gets to around 2k. I'm not even sure how I would begin to diagnose it. I've been convincing myself to just not worry about it.

 

I noticed this too. so are people thinking that its a problem?? i thought it was more of a loss of power in the engine for some reason, but what everyone is saying is exactly what i feel too. after getting into second, light acceleration you get the 2 lags (as i feel jerk refers to something quick) right around 2k. i have a 2008 civic si and its smooth in all the gears, so thats really the only thing I have to compare it to.

 

Lag is probably a better word. We are all definitely talking about the same thing; two sort of cut outs while lightly to moderately accelerating around 2k in 2nd gear. I don't know if it is a problem or not, but I'm sort of relieved that other people know what I'm talking about. That means it's either normal and fine, or a potential fix-it-for-free recall issue.

Hopefully this thread stays alive and more people will share their experiences.

I have to say though, I love this M/T. It's a blast to drive.

 

i wonder if it has something to do with vtec kicking on and off? i have no idea where it engages in this car, because i cant really hear it or feel it. but maybe its a solenoid hesitation or a TPS sensor not knowing whether it should tell it to engage vtec or not?!?

to me seems more of a power issue then transmission issue, being that transmission is fully engaged when its felt..

 

I had a similar thought and think it might be something along those lines. Just this morning, I was off the accelerator and engine breaking in 4th gear, and I felt a distinct drop in power when the tach hit 2k; I don't mean typical engine breaking, I mean it felt like the car switched to a lower power setting or something right at the same point that I'm experiencing the lags. I'm can't say it was related, but it SEEMS like it was.

I had read that vtec kicks in over 4k, but maybe it's different on these little engines. Or maybe it is a type of Econ setting that activates/deactivates at low RPMs?

At any rate, thanks for weighing in everyone! Your input is great and I'm confident we will figure this out together. I love my Fit, and I love that there is such a great forum community for it.

 

i think you are correct on the eco stuff.. i did notice the same feeling as i was accelerating in third gear from a pretty slow roll. anyway im thinking less and less that its a problem and thinking more that its just how the engine and stuff functions. i was actually going to post/search this but what exactly does "earth dreams" technology mean?

 

Hey all. After writing about this a few times, I was contacted by a rep from Honda North America to help me set up an appointment and diagnose the issue (they do read these forums). I brought the car into my local dealer and they kept it for a few hours. The preliminary verdict: there's nothing wrong with the car...

They told me they ran diagnostic tests and had a tech drive it. When I got there, I also took the tech on a ride to see if I could point it out. Now, I've put 2,500 miles on this thing. Me and Fit? We've bonded... I can pick out this shutter with my eyes closed and my ass asleep. It is sometimes very pronounced, even audible; it is sometimes almost imperceptible and could be mistaken for a bump in the road. Either way, I feel it about 85% of the time. You typically won't get out of the driveway without shifting from first to second, so it may as well happen 100% of the time for how often I notice it. I go on my test ride and sure enough, I feel it. I kept trying to point it out, but it was a bumpy road and I just knew the tech wasn't feeling it.

Finally he said that he drove it and tried to replicate exactly what I said. He ultimately felt like shifting out of first and into 2nd at 3k is just too low for second gear. In truth, when you shift out of 1 at 3k and into 2, the RPMs will be at about 1,600 when you let the clutch out in 2nd, which the tech claims is below the power band for 2nd gear. He recommended pushing first up to 4k and shifting into 2nd at around 2,200-2,500 so the engine doesn't work so hard up front.

So this is what I have been trying to do. I'll shift at 4k and nestle the clutch right in at 2.2-2.3k. I would say it has reduced the shutter to maybe 30% of the time, so that is a big improvement.

However there are some downsides to this remedy. One, push 1st gear to 4k and you find out why people say the Fit is noisy. It get's loud and since you are only moving 10-15mph, there isn't even road noise to mask the revving engine. Two, I don't imagine this style has helped my MPG numbers. I doubt it has hurt them very significantly, but I am revving the engine harder every time I start from a stop. And three, I feel like there are times that I HAVE to shift into second gear and the RPM range is going to be under 2k (for example, if I go into a turn in neutral at 15mph and have to put it in gear to accelerate out, it's going in second gear; I'm not going to downshift into 1st at 4k RPMs just to immediately shift to 2nd when I get out of the turn). In instances like this, I feel the shutter.

So that's all I know and I hope it helps. For those who have been experiencing this, try shifting into 2nd gear above 2k and see if it helps. Like I said, I've been driving this way for about a week and it did reduce the number of instances that I feel it shutter, but there are some downsides and I wouldn't say it fixed the "issue" completely. I don't know if there is any problem causing this or if it is just the normal behavior of the engine.

If you can, report what you feel/find. I think together we can find an answer.

 

I'm interested in this thread just because i'm interested in what's causing this.

I can start from a complete stop in 2nd gear in my GE without stalling or bucking, so I don't think this is a power band thing. Maybe some idle speed eco ECU programming. Sounds annoying. You shouldn't have to rev to 4k lol

Either that or operator error. That is in no way bashing you, it sometimes takes time to get used to a new car's clutch and the clutch to break in all the way.

 

Ha, no bashing taken. For a few weeks I was convinced that was it and I was just making crappy shifts. I haven't tried to start from second, but I have shifted into second at less then 10mph (1,100 rpm) and it did fine, except for the little shutter. It's definitely strange. I'm hoping more people comment.

 

this car cannot be babied in my opinion from 1st gear to 3rd.

and it doesn't help that the green to blue econ lights may dictate the drivers instinct to its shift pattern.

i shift at 3.5 or around 4K all the way upto 3rd (power reasons & smoother shift).

I feel the car wants to be pushed a bit harder through 1st to 3rd.

without visuals the noise from the motor tells me to give it a bit more push...

also the 6th gear is a pile...

 

I have to concur. I actually just ditch work for a few minutes to go experiment. It does seems to like the higher RPM shifts. I have a lot of fun in second gear; the car just wants to go in 2nd and third. I typically skip 5th and go from 3rd to 6th or more typically 4th to 6th. I use 5 on the highway to pass people. 1,2,3,6 or 1,2,3,4,6.

F those Eco lights! Maybe they feel great being green in the CVT, but it seems like if you are accelerating in any other gear except 6th, the lights are blue.