Brake drums held on only by lug nuts! - Unofficial Honda FIT Forums

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Brake drums held on only by lug nuts!

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  #1  
Old 02-28-2018, 11:27 AM
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Brake drums held on only by lug nuts!

To my surprise, each (rear) brake drum was loose and probably able to slide off, once the tire was removed (and the parking brake was released). There was no little screw holding it on, like there was for the front hub. I say little screw, singular, because although each front hub had 2 screw holes, only one hole had a screw in it. The only thing holding each brake drum from sliding off the stub axle was the wheel and tire assembly, and the lug nuts holding the wheel and tire assembly. Since the rear studs go through a hole in the drums, and through a hole in the wheel, the lug nuts were able to hold the drum on, as well as hold the wheel on. In contrast, on each front hub, the studs were screwed into the hub.

Interesting.

There were 2 little holes in each drum that were threaded, each of which you could thread a screw into, and I suspect you could then use the screws to push against a backing plate, in order to help pull the drum off – no drum puller or gear puller needed. However my drums were loose and I think they could have come off without using screws, simply by pulling with hands.

I was away from home, and only had a few tools with me – enough to rotate my tires – so I didn't want to pull the brake drums off to see how easily they came off and see what was behind them. I didn't know what to expect about pulling them off and putting them back on and didn't want to find out when I was so far away from home without all my tools.
 

Last edited by nomenclator; 02-28-2018 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 02-28-2018, 12:26 PM
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That is the same as the drum brakes on my trailers, my neighbors Chevy truck, and Fox body Mustangs.

Those are the only drum brakes I have experience with, but all are only held in place with the lug nuts.

Were you expecting something different? Do you see any reason for it to be something different?

Honda is unique in that it has those retaining screws for the rotors. ALL other cars I've owned do not have any form of retaining screw for the rotors either.
 
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Old 02-28-2018, 02:40 PM
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As I understand it, the retaining screw is really just for the assembly line, and it becomes an absolute HELL of a time to get everything off after a few thousand miles of crud working on little screws.

Some people I know swear that the next new honda they get, they will take off each wheel and remove the screw first thing to save a bad time during a brake job later
 
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Old 03-01-2018, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by GAFIT View Post
That is the same as the drum brakes on my trailers, my neighbors Chevy truck, and Fox body Mustangs.

Those are the only drum brakes I have experience with, but all are only held in place with the lug nuts.

Were you expecting something different? Do you see any reason for it to be something different?

Honda is unique in that it has those retaining screws for the rotors. ALL other cars I've owned do not have any form of retaining screw for the rotors either.
I guess I was expecting a pair of roller bearings with their outer side riding on bearing races inside a hub packed with grease, at the center of the drum, with a grease seal on the inside of the drum, and with inner part of the bearings fitting over a stub axle, and a big clamp-nut on the threaded end of the axle, to adjust the end-play in the drum. Studs screwed into threaded holes in the drum. No separate hub.
 

Last edited by nomenclator; 03-01-2018 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 03-01-2018, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ercdvs View Post
As I understand it, the retaining screw is really just for the assembly line, and it becomes an absolute HELL of a time to get everything off after a few thousand miles of crud working on little screws.

Some people I know swear that the next new honda they get, they will take off each wheel and remove the screw first thing to save a bad time during a brake job later
I remove the screw and put a thin film of anti-seize compound on it, then screw it back in. It would have been nice if they had used a Torx head screw instead of a philips head.
 
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Old 03-01-2018, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by nomenclator View Post
I guess I was expecting a pair of roller bearings with their outer side riding on bearing races inside a hub packed with grease, at the center of the drum, with a grease seal on the inside of the drum, and with inner part of the bearings fitting over a stub axle, and a big clamp-nut on the threaded end of the axle, to adjust the end-play in the drum. Studs screwed into threaded holes in the drum. No separate hub.
That sounds interesting! In my mind, that would have the drawback of getting grease on the brake linings if the grease seal failed.

On my trailers, the wheel bearing is actually outside of the drum with the drums more inboard. The drums are still not held in place by anything though.
 
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Old 03-01-2018, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by GAFIT View Post
That sounds interesting! In my mind, that would have the drawback of getting grease on the brake linings if the grease seal failed.

On my trailers, the wheel bearing is actually outside of the drum with the drums more inboard. The drums are still not held in place by anything though.
Yes; if grease seal fails, grease gets on brake linings. I worked on hundreds of VW Beetle brakes. I don't remember everything, but I remember grease seals that failed, but not catastrophically. After maybe the 5th time the brake shoes were replaced, on the front wheels, and the car had over 100,000 miles on it, you'd see a little grease seeping out around the lip of the seal, and starting to leaving a coating on the brake backing plate, extending maybe an 30 mm from the stub axle, and you'd know it was time to replace the seal. The grease was still nowhere near the brake linings or drum contact surface. That's only if the seals were not replaced as part of periodic maintenance, every 30,000 miles or so, along with repacking the bearings with fresh grease. If the car had about 200,000 miles on it you were ready to replace the brake linings for the 5th time, the drums were about finally worn down to maximum diamater, and needed replacement too. In which case, if the wheel bearings had truly been lubricated every 30,000 miles, the bearings were still fine and you could put them in the new drums - with a new seal. That's what I seem to recall anyway. My point is that you didn't have good seals and then suddenly they failed. Rather, as they wore, eventually you would see that they were beginning to let out just a little too much grease. They could also start leaking simply from age, as they hardened from age, and lost flexibility, and the lip no longer made good contact with the axle. You'd also see some leakage - but not enough to reach the brake linings.

On the rear wheels, the lubrication was inboard of the brake backing plate - I think at the transaxle. I seem to recall an axle extending from the transaxle and the whole axle turned, and it was splined on the outboard end and the drum had matching splines, and there was like a 30 mm hex nut to hold the drum to the axle that was tightened to about 220 ft-lbs and had holes in it, for a cotter pin that also went thru a hole in the axle. So the only seal would be all the way inboard, at the transaxle.
 

Last edited by nomenclator; 03-01-2018 at 06:28 PM.
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  #8  
Old 03-01-2018, 06:39 PM
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I still don't know what's going on with the Fit's rear drums. I'm guessing that there is a hub inside the drum, that the hub has studs threaded into the hub, and that the drum has holes in it that fit over the studs. I'm guessing that there are roller bearings inside the hub, packed with grease, and that there is one or 2 grease seal somewhere inside of each hub, but I don't know where.
 
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Old 03-01-2018, 07:05 PM
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That is correct. There is a bearing that rides on a spindle. The hub fits over that bearing and is retained by a large nut. The hub has studs pressed in through the backside.

Edited to add...those may not be the correct words. I'm just a home garage DIY'r so forgive me if those names aren't correct.
 
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Old 03-02-2018, 01:48 AM
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I guess that I do not understand the question. That is the way drum brakes and some disk rotors have been made and installed for 70 or more years.

Usually the manufacturer adds some little flat clips threaded over one or two of the studs to keep the rotors or drums from falling off during transit to the assembly plant. They are made thin enough so they do not have to be removed before the wheels are installed. They are always discarded by the first person to remove the drums. The screw holes on Hondas that I have seen are for removing the rotors / drums. Thread a bolt into them and keep turning. That will force rusted drums / rotors off of the hubs. If they are not rusted on then they will fall off on their own.
 
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Old 03-02-2018, 11:40 AM
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#3 Phillips head, propane torch, and a torque wrench, good to go!
 
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Old 03-29-2018, 09:52 AM
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YES, you use the bolt to push the drum out if it don't comes off easy


 
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:24 AM
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Great photos wmo168.
 
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