Top 10 Auto-X Mods?
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,371
From: NC USA
Like you said that is definitely brake compound, 2 I have not tested the weight difference, however the Fastest FWD solo champ lives 30 mins from me, and after discussing it with him he kept the drums for the weight and no increased performance in his application.
Im not saying that drums are superior to discs, quite the opposite, but ESPECIALLY for the avg FF user, there is no need to upgrade to discs. Perhaps on track you MIGHT see some fade, just add cooling ducts and youd be set. But for street drag and autox there is abosolutely no reason to have discs on this car.
Im not saying that drums are superior to discs, quite the opposite, but ESPECIALLY for the avg FF user, there is no need to upgrade to discs. Perhaps on track you MIGHT see some fade, just add cooling ducts and youd be set. But for street drag and autox there is abosolutely no reason to have discs on this car.
Except performance, cost, and maintenance. What reasons would you have to favor drums?
I agree that upgrading the average driver's Fit to rear drums is a complete waste; it should be done by Honda though.
Last edited by mahout; Jan 15, 2009 at 12:29 PM.
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,371
From: NC USA
Thanks. Its because discs have more stopping power than drums regardless of less cost and easier maintenance. Overseas Fits have rear disc brakes. Even tho the rears carry only 10 to 30% of the total braking required, the improvement is worth more in reducing the deceleration rate. Since there's discs up froont, the only gain is at the rear.
Amazing isn't it, those arguing for drum rears are probably the ones with the most advanced blackberries and cell phones when they could just as easily done with 'lesser' communication stuff.
Thanks. Its because discs have more stopping power than drums regardless of less cost and easier maintenance. Overseas Fits have rear disc brakes. Even tho the rears carry only 10 to 30% of the total braking required, the improvement is worth more in reducing the deceleration rate. Since there's discs up froont, the only gain is at the rear.
Amazing isn't it, those arguing for drum rears are probably the ones with the most advanced blackberries and cell phones when they could just as easily done with 'lesser' communication stuff.
Amazing isn't it, those arguing for drum rears are probably the ones with the most advanced blackberries and cell phones when they could just as easily done with 'lesser' communication stuff.
What would you say the over all stoping distance would be shortened by with a car with the same front brakes and good pads (Hawk Blues, HP+ etc) and rear discs vs good shoe, well adjusted drums 5% maybe?
Now at what does this 5% even 10% gain cost us? $700-800. To me that is WAY to much for WAY to little. Especially for anyone who is not building a race car where that extra 30 feet less of braking zone would help them nose into a lower posistion on track or cut a tenth of a second.
My car is a daily driver that ive made a bit more fun to drive everyday, and that i can take to a track and have a good weekend day with. If i wanted that all out performance, i would drive another car thats been built for racing and racing only, that guess what.... has discs lol....
i think the fact that spoon kept the rear drums for their 25 hour endrurance spec gd3 would answer everyones question. spoon might have an idea about building a good car and yet they chose to keep the oem braking system instead of converting to rear discs. even the front brakes stayed oem minus the racing pads and rear drum with fins. these are the enduro spec fit brakes.
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,371
From: NC USA
Law of diminishing returns with what im trying to get at. (not sure if that is the BEST term but it works ok). Yes discs would be ideal, that not what im arguing against. Im arguing against cost vs HP.
What would you say the over all stoping distance would be shortened by with a car with the same front brakes and good pads (Hawk Blues, HP+ etc) and rear discs vs good shoe, well adjusted drums 5% maybe?
Now at what does this 5% even 10% gain cost us? $700-800. To me that is WAY to much for WAY to little. Especially for anyone who is not building a race car where that extra 30 feet less of braking zone would help them nose into a lower posistion on track or cut a tenth of a second.
My car is a daily driver that ive made a bit more fun to drive everyday, and that i can take to a track and have a good weekend day with. If i wanted that all out performance, i would drive another car thats been built for racing and racing only, that guess what.... has discs lol....
What would you say the over all stoping distance would be shortened by with a car with the same front brakes and good pads (Hawk Blues, HP+ etc) and rear discs vs good shoe, well adjusted drums 5% maybe?
Now at what does this 5% even 10% gain cost us? $700-800. To me that is WAY to much for WAY to little. Especially for anyone who is not building a race car where that extra 30 feet less of braking zone would help them nose into a lower posistion on track or cut a tenth of a second.
My car is a daily driver that ive made a bit more fun to drive everyday, and that i can take to a track and have a good weekend day with. If i wanted that all out performance, i would drive another car thats been built for racing and racing only, that guess what.... has discs lol....
The discussion is not whether you should 'update' your car with rear discs but why doesn't Honda (as they do on Fits elsewhere in the world). Why do we get the cheap, less performing, stuff?
Out of curiosity do you own a cell phone? of the latest technology? Why do you expect Fits to be less tech?
i think the fact that spoon kept the rear drums for their 25 hour endrurance spec gd3 would answer everyones question. spoon might have an idea about building a good car and yet they chose to keep the oem braking system instead of converting to rear discs. even the front brakes stayed oem minus the racing pads and rear drum with fins. these are the enduro spec fit brakes.
Mahout it happens that i do have a BB, however like i said earlier paying an extra 30 bucks to have internet wherever i go (im on the road a lot) is well worth it to me. the phone itself was no more then any other phone.
The reason we get all the cheap stuff is because we as americans see honda as a cheap company, its the same reason why the type r wont come here. No one would pay 25-28k for a "civic" its just our mindset, eventhough the "civic" laps faster then a R34, FD Rx7, Evo XI etc
we just dont care about performance driving here in the usa
Last edited by SHG_Mike; Jan 16, 2009 at 08:27 AM.
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,371
From: NC USA
I would say good point, however i dont believe they CHOSE to keep the stock brakes rather they needed to, to stay in class. However it does bring up the point they are good enough to grab a couple podium finishes with the drums.
Mahout it happens that i do have a BB, however like i said earlier paying an extra 30 bucks to have internet wherever i go (im on the road a lot) is well worth it to me. the phone itself was no more then any other phone.
The reason we get all the cheap stuff is because we as americans see honda as a cheap company, its the same reason why the type r wont come here. No one would pay 25-28k for a "civic" its just our mindset, eventhough the "civic" laps faster then a R34, FD Rx7, Evo XI etc
we just dont care about performance driving here in the usa
Mahout it happens that i do have a BB, however like i said earlier paying an extra 30 bucks to have internet wherever i go (im on the road a lot) is well worth it to me. the phone itself was no more then any other phone.
The reason we get all the cheap stuff is because we as americans see honda as a cheap company, its the same reason why the type r wont come here. No one would pay 25-28k for a "civic" its just our mindset, eventhough the "civic" laps faster then a R34, FD Rx7, Evo XI etc
we just dont care about performance driving here in the usa
You made my point.
Its not however, that we don't care about performance, its we have no idea about technology beyond a BB.
I have a neighbor that 'sells' one of the cell phione networks and he is amazed how people will turn in older models for the latest thing at extra expense.
Honda gets a special deal on the drums so they save money where the market is irgnorant of technology. They would switch instantly otherwise.
A fit R doesn't Fit the image or the chassis.
I thought the Acura type R sold very well and has one of the highest residual vaues. Because we have 300MM people here if only 10% are car nuts thats 30 MM, more than the population of most countries. Hondas rep is based on its road going performance and while they dropped out of the IRL or other they are contuning support in the badge racing series.
And I'll be the first to admit predjudice against drums for the simple reason I've changed them and in an IMSA endurance race where we lost the proportioning valve (fixed what wasn't broke by using silicone brake fluid that ate the valve seals) and had to change the shoes every hour, Perhaps the threats from the crew is also partly due. I still flinch when drums are mentioned. Discs are better than drums and I don't see why Honda won't change it.
If Spoon needed to stay in class by not upgrading thats what I would have done too.
i dont think the market is ignorant of discs, rather the target market for a 14-17k car that gets 40mpg isnt going to care about track performance, so to them they can save the money because buyers would buy the car whether it had drums or discs.
A shot prop valve would have cause you to change rear pads every our too lol...
What do you do for a living out of curiosity? racing team? Your one of the few people on this bored who doesnt talk out of there rear on the subject of actual track performance
A shot prop valve would have cause you to change rear pads every our too lol...
What do you do for a living out of curiosity? racing team? Your one of the few people on this bored who doesnt talk out of there rear on the subject of actual track performance
Top 10 Auto-X mods will depend some on-
Your budget.
Your goals for driving auto-X (Fun vs being competitive)
Your class of competition- rules will severely limit your options
Your intention to build a street car for daily driving AND auto-X or build a purpose built track/auto-X car.
No matter what the most important thing to remember is-
It is the driver's skill that determines the competitive outcome NOT the mods you add to any car. Therefore the serious competitor will be interested in a good driving school such as the EVO school (official SCCA driving school).
If your budget is unlimited then see post #1 and add LSD. If you do all the mechanical work yourself then it's good.
If your intention is to compete in H stock class SCCA events then your choices are very limited. Biggest benefit is R compound tires (Kumho V710 or Hoosier A6 205/50-15) on stock rims or similar sized wheels. While any cat back exhaust is legal it is not required. A clean air filter is good and less extra weight is best- less added audio upgrades. Shocks of the same size and any front swaybar are legal. Any spark plugs, any oil, and any alignment is fine.
Your budget.
Your goals for driving auto-X (Fun vs being competitive)
Your class of competition- rules will severely limit your options
Your intention to build a street car for daily driving AND auto-X or build a purpose built track/auto-X car.
No matter what the most important thing to remember is-
It is the driver's skill that determines the competitive outcome NOT the mods you add to any car. Therefore the serious competitor will be interested in a good driving school such as the EVO school (official SCCA driving school).
If your budget is unlimited then see post #1 and add LSD. If you do all the mechanical work yourself then it's good.
If your intention is to compete in H stock class SCCA events then your choices are very limited. Biggest benefit is R compound tires (Kumho V710 or Hoosier A6 205/50-15) on stock rims or similar sized wheels. While any cat back exhaust is legal it is not required. A clean air filter is good and less extra weight is best- less added audio upgrades. Shocks of the same size and any front swaybar are legal. Any spark plugs, any oil, and any alignment is fine.
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 283
From: Mililani, Hawaii
Top 10 Auto-X mods will depend some on-
Your budget.
Your goals for driving auto-X (Fun vs being competitive)
Your class of competition- rules will severely limit your options
Your intention to build a street car for daily driving AND auto-X or build a purpose built track/auto-X car.
No matter what the most important thing to remember is-
It is the driver's skill that determines the competitive outcome NOT the mods you add to any car. Therefore the serious competitor will be interested in a good driving school such as the EVO school (official SCCA driving school).
If your budget is unlimited then see post #1 and add LSD. If you do all the mechanical work yourself then it's good.
If your intention is to compete in H stock class SCCA events then your choices are very limited. Biggest benefit is R compound tires (Kumho V710 or Hoosier A6 205/50-15) on stock rims or similar sized wheels. While any cat back exhaust is legal it is not required. A clean air filter is good and less extra weight is best- less added audio upgrades. Shocks of the same size and any front swaybar are legal. Any spark plugs, any oil, and any alignment is fine.
Your budget.
Your goals for driving auto-X (Fun vs being competitive)
Your class of competition- rules will severely limit your options
Your intention to build a street car for daily driving AND auto-X or build a purpose built track/auto-X car.
No matter what the most important thing to remember is-
It is the driver's skill that determines the competitive outcome NOT the mods you add to any car. Therefore the serious competitor will be interested in a good driving school such as the EVO school (official SCCA driving school).
If your budget is unlimited then see post #1 and add LSD. If you do all the mechanical work yourself then it's good.
If your intention is to compete in H stock class SCCA events then your choices are very limited. Biggest benefit is R compound tires (Kumho V710 or Hoosier A6 205/50-15) on stock rims or similar sized wheels. While any cat back exhaust is legal it is not required. A clean air filter is good and less extra weight is best- less added audio upgrades. Shocks of the same size and any front swaybar are legal. Any spark plugs, any oil, and any alignment is fine.
My vote for #1 best mod is having a friend like Mini Fit at the event. They say in motocross racing it's 95% rider and 5% bike not totally true for autocross but, knowledge and someone to teach you the ropes is far more important than any other mod. Look up your local SCCA choose a class suited to your car see what else you can add on in that class and go find a guru willing to spend some time with you that's truly your best mod.
it does suck that we didnt get them but the whole point of the fit was to be gas friendly thats why they tried to limit us on things and thats why we dont even get a sunroof.
So if you want to trade your car in for something new like people do with phones with internet, it would be the same as upgrading to a fit with NAV
So if you want to trade your car in for something new like people do with phones with internet, it would be the same as upgrading to a fit with NAV
Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
From: Parañaque City, Philippines
Haven't tried autocross yet but from initial impressions, I do believe a few mods should be imperative...these will just make your work load a little easier regardless of your skill level.
1) Semi-bucket seats or full-bucket seats - shouldn't require explanation, you need all the lateral support you can get
2) A good 4- or 5-point harness and harness bar
3) Lessons from a performance driving school...or at least a shotgun ride in your car while being driven by a seasoned trackday junkie or racer.
4) Better tires
5) Better brake pads, properly bedded-in
The camcorder mount system is a good idea too, but I'd imagine it's not one for people who still want their cars daily driven.
BTW, the GD1s have drum brakes at the back too. FYI
1) Semi-bucket seats or full-bucket seats - shouldn't require explanation, you need all the lateral support you can get
2) A good 4- or 5-point harness and harness bar
3) Lessons from a performance driving school...or at least a shotgun ride in your car while being driven by a seasoned trackday junkie or racer.
4) Better tires
5) Better brake pads, properly bedded-in
The camcorder mount system is a good idea too, but I'd imagine it's not one for people who still want their cars daily driven.
BTW, the GD1s have drum brakes at the back too. FYI
Thread Starter
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Push My Button
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,997
From: Calgary, Alberta
Haven't tried autocross yet but from initial impressions, I do believe a few mods should be imperative...these will just make your work load a little easier regardless of your skill level.
1) Semi-bucket seats or full-bucket seats - shouldn't require explanation, you need all the lateral support you can get
2) A good 4- or 5-point harness and harness bar
3) Lessons from a performance driving school...or at least a shotgun ride in your car while being driven by a seasoned trackday junkie or racer.
4) Better tires
5) Better brake pads, properly bedded-in
The camcorder mount system is a good idea too, but I'd imagine it's not one for people who still want their cars daily driven.
BTW, the GD1s have drum brakes at the back too. FYI
1) Semi-bucket seats or full-bucket seats - shouldn't require explanation, you need all the lateral support you can get
2) A good 4- or 5-point harness and harness bar
3) Lessons from a performance driving school...or at least a shotgun ride in your car while being driven by a seasoned trackday junkie or racer.
4) Better tires
5) Better brake pads, properly bedded-in
The camcorder mount system is a good idea too, but I'd imagine it's not one for people who still want their cars daily driven.
BTW, the GD1s have drum brakes at the back too. FYI
lol, I am too far gone now to stay in HS class
Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
From: Parañaque City, Philippines
I guess it'll all depend on how hard-core one wants to be and how willing one is to sacrifice daily-driver comforts (A/C, sound deadening, bars eating into the interior space) all in the name of a few tenths.
Having said that, I'll skip #2
Heheheh.
1. 15" re-30 rims
2. Nitto NT01 tires
3. progress rear sway bar...no front. id liek some oversteer.
4. LSD
5. KW coilovers
6. front big brake kit
7. rear disc conversion
8. front weight reduction...try to get a 50/50 balance
9. bride seats
10. turbo
2. Nitto NT01 tires
3. progress rear sway bar...no front. id liek some oversteer.
4. LSD
5. KW coilovers
6. front big brake kit
7. rear disc conversion
8. front weight reduction...try to get a 50/50 balance
9. bride seats
10. turbo
I have just one
1. My evo back LOL
But really the fit is good in auto x i want to try and do some this year. but i really do miss the power of the evo i need to get another one for the weekends just to look at
1. My evo back LOL
But really the fit is good in auto x i want to try and do some this year. but i really do miss the power of the evo i need to get another one for the weekends just to look at
Thread Starter
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Push My Button
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,997
From: Calgary, Alberta
never heard of the Nitto tires, I had to look them up. They are pretty slick looking!
