handling
#22
On our track: its a small 1/8 mile oval with a twisted figure 8. Stopwatch readings on both 6" and 7" rims for 205 width tires were not statistically different.
And how did you determined there was better cornering? Did you stopwatch the two? and then statistically determine if the result was significant? In our case the result was always within 95% confidence limits there was not significant difference.
Ordinarily one would think the heavier wheel would be at a disadvantage but the weight of the tire far overcomes the wheel weight.
And likewise the wider the tire without going a little less diameter the car gets slower. In that case the heavier tire loses because the rotational energy saps both cornering power and acceleratio.
We didn't try 235's but did try 225's and they were a LOT slower. You can't expect a vehicle with only 109 hp to pull big heavy tires.
cheers.
And how did you determined there was better cornering? Did you stopwatch the two? and then statistically determine if the result was significant? In our case the result was always within 95% confidence limits there was not significant difference.
Ordinarily one would think the heavier wheel would be at a disadvantage but the weight of the tire far overcomes the wheel weight.
And likewise the wider the tire without going a little less diameter the car gets slower. In that case the heavier tire loses because the rotational energy saps both cornering power and acceleratio.
We didn't try 235's but did try 225's and they were a LOT slower. You can't expect a vehicle with only 109 hp to pull big heavy tires.
cheers.
Sooo, it really wasn't an apple-to-apple comparison. Though my corning speeds may not have been as fast, the added tire patch allowed me to shorten the corners considerably. Just saying that; with a lighter wheel/tire combo, and a bigger contact patch, I was able to handle some extreme corners better than with the treaded, narrow tire..
There are a number of challenges in "Stock" SCCA events, and your input will be a big help with my tire choices for this up coming season.
The Fit did preform will this year in winning the Fresno Chapter's H-stock Championship. I ran in nine of the twelve events with seven 1st, one 2nd and one 3rd. The best part is the fun I had.
Thanks for the input..
#23
I agree with everything you said. BUT, given the tarmac surface and the test course setup prior to a regional event in Washington, I was able to run a number of timed runs using wheels with 15x6 50mm offset and a lighter than the stock, Tirerack wheel, with 195 Bridgestone 01's.. After a tire/wheel change to Kuhmo 235 710's mounted on an even lighter 15x7 wheel, I was able to consistently run a 0.5 second better trap time. (this setup was for test only. and I didn't run in the competition like that).
Sooo, it really wasn't an apple-to-apple comparison. Though my corning speeds may not have been as fast, the added tire patch allowed me to shorten the corners considerably. Just saying that; with a lighter wheel/tire combo, and a bigger contact patch, I was able to handle some extreme corners better than with the treaded, narrow tire..
There are a number of challenges in "Stock" SCCA events, and your input will be a big help with my tire choices for this up coming season.
The Fit did preform will this year in winning the Fresno Chapter's H-stock Championship. I ran in nine of the twelve events with seven 1st, one 2nd and one 3rd. The best part is the fun I had.
Thanks for the input..
Sooo, it really wasn't an apple-to-apple comparison. Though my corning speeds may not have been as fast, the added tire patch allowed me to shorten the corners considerably. Just saying that; with a lighter wheel/tire combo, and a bigger contact patch, I was able to handle some extreme corners better than with the treaded, narrow tire..
There are a number of challenges in "Stock" SCCA events, and your input will be a big help with my tire choices for this up coming season.
The Fit did preform will this year in winning the Fresno Chapter's H-stock Championship. I ran in nine of the twelve events with seven 1st, one 2nd and one 3rd. The best part is the fun I had.
Thanks for the input..
therefore , "the best part is the fun i had"="the best part is the winning"
#24
I've done both, and by far wining can be a lot more fun.. .. loosing by a tenth of a second is tough. Getting creamed by seconds is really discouraging... But there is always another day.. One thing about the Fit; you have the role of the underdog with all the Civics, Mini Coopers, Mazda3s, BMWs, etc to compete against.
#25
I agree with everything you said. BUT, given the tarmac surface and the test course setup prior to a regional event in Washington, I was able to run a number of timed runs using wheels with 15x6 50mm offset and a lighter than the stock, Tirerack wheel, with 195 Bridgestone 01's.. After a tire/wheel change to Kuhmo 235 710's mounted on an even lighter 15x7 wheel, I was able to consistently run a 0.5 second better trap time. (this setup was for test only. and I didn't run in the competition like that).
Sooo, it really wasn't an apple-to-apple comparison. Though my corning speeds may not have been as fast, the added tire patch allowed me to shorten the corners considerably. Just saying that; with a lighter wheel/tire combo, and a bigger contact patch, I was able to handle some extreme corners better than with the treaded, narrow tire..
There are a number of challenges in "Stock" SCCA events, and your input will be a big help with my tire choices for this up coming season.
The Fit did preform will this year in winning the Fresno Chapter's H-stock Championship. I ran in nine of the twelve events with seven 1st, one 2nd and one 3rd. The best part is the fun I had.
Thanks for the input..
Sooo, it really wasn't an apple-to-apple comparison. Though my corning speeds may not have been as fast, the added tire patch allowed me to shorten the corners considerably. Just saying that; with a lighter wheel/tire combo, and a bigger contact patch, I was able to handle some extreme corners better than with the treaded, narrow tire..
There are a number of challenges in "Stock" SCCA events, and your input will be a big help with my tire choices for this up coming season.
The Fit did preform will this year in winning the Fresno Chapter's H-stock Championship. I ran in nine of the twelve events with seven 1st, one 2nd and one 3rd. The best part is the fun I had.
Thanks for the input..
It wasn't apples to apples, it was apples to watermelons.
If you ran 195/55x15 Bridge 01's compared to Kumho V710 235/45x15 the change in tires alone would yield at least a half-second gain due soley to the V710's performance compared to Bridge's. (see the A/X runoffs). You were correct in having a wider (heavier) tire slightly smaller in diameter (23.3 vs 23.4") to reduce the heavier weight at the circumference which lowers the torque (and hp) required to turn the wheel. That at least approaches the 195/55x15's. You would likely have gained more using 205/50x15's instead. Overly increasing tread width can reduce the lap times by simply overburdening a vehicle that has only 109 hp to propel it. Too much goes into merely overcoming rolling friction. You didn't mention tire pressures, one way to overcome the higher rolling friction of wider treads is higher pressure. In essence, reducing the real tread width.
The wheel weight has only secondary effects on the times; its the tire weight and diameter that matters more. It matters but not nearly as much.
You didn't say what the offset of the 15x7 wheel so we presume it was around 42 mm; that change in offset too makes a difference.
Again we say that the best 205/50x15 tire on a reasonably light wheel is the way to go with the Fit in A/Xes and hope Minis aren't in your class.
cheers.
And congrats for 7 1sts, a 2nd, and a third in your A/Xing season. No matter what the competition thats good evidence of first rate driving performance. Good show.
Last edited by mahout; 01-10-2009 at 08:50 AM.
#26
It wasn't apples to apples, it was apples to watermelons.
If you ran 195/55x15 Bridge 01's compared to Kumho V710 235/45x15 the change in tires alone would yield at least a half-second gain due soley to the V710's performance compared to Bridge's. (see the A/X runoffs). You were correct in having a wider (heavier) tire slightly smaller in diameter (23.3 vs 23.4") to reduce the heavier weight at the circumference which lowers the torque (and hp) required to turn the wheel. That at least approaches the 195/55x15's. You would likely have gained more using 205/50x15's instead. Overly increasing tread width can reduce the lap times by simply overburdening a vehicle that has only 109 hp to propel it. Too much goes into merely overcoming rolling friction. You didn't mention tire pressures, one way to overcome the higher rolling friction of wider treads is higher pressure. In essence, reducing the real tread width.
The wheel weight has only secondary effects on the times; its the tire weight and diameter that matters more. It matters but not nearly as much.
You didn't say what the offset of the 15x7 wheel so we presume it was around 42 mm; that change in offset too makes a difference.
Again we say that the best 205/50x15 tire on a reasonably light wheel is the way to go with the Fit in A/Xes and hope Minis aren't in your class.
cheers.
And congrats for 7 1sts, a 2nd, and a third in your A/Xing season. No matter what the competition thats good evidence of first rate driving performance. Good show.
If you ran 195/55x15 Bridge 01's compared to Kumho V710 235/45x15 the change in tires alone would yield at least a half-second gain due soley to the V710's performance compared to Bridge's. (see the A/X runoffs). You were correct in having a wider (heavier) tire slightly smaller in diameter (23.3 vs 23.4") to reduce the heavier weight at the circumference which lowers the torque (and hp) required to turn the wheel. That at least approaches the 195/55x15's. You would likely have gained more using 205/50x15's instead. Overly increasing tread width can reduce the lap times by simply overburdening a vehicle that has only 109 hp to propel it. Too much goes into merely overcoming rolling friction. You didn't mention tire pressures, one way to overcome the higher rolling friction of wider treads is higher pressure. In essence, reducing the real tread width.
The wheel weight has only secondary effects on the times; its the tire weight and diameter that matters more. It matters but not nearly as much.
You didn't say what the offset of the 15x7 wheel so we presume it was around 42 mm; that change in offset too makes a difference.
Again we say that the best 205/50x15 tire on a reasonably light wheel is the way to go with the Fit in A/Xes and hope Minis aren't in your class.
cheers.
And congrats for 7 1sts, a 2nd, and a third in your A/Xing season. No matter what the competition thats good evidence of first rate driving performance. Good show.
Today my daily driver wheels are the K1 Racing "Kosei" 15x7 45mm 13.5# wheels (a favorite of the Miata crowd, also) with 205x50 NITTO NT NeoGen VR rubber.
Fortuity, in my area most of the minis are the S model or run in modified classes. I'm afraid that the Fit and I are no match for a mini with a good driver in H-stock.
Thanks for the complement.What I lack in knowledge and talent, I try to make up for by persistence.
#27
try the volk ce28n 15x6.5 (maybe 6" or even 5.5" width) +39mm offset with some hoosier a6's in 205-50-15, some adjustable shocks and max legal alignment (-1 front camber, try -2.5 camber out back, 3mm toe out front with 0 toe rear) and u should be good to go (i think these r the only legal mods) also try putting the seats in cargo mode, reclining the front passenger seat all the way down and lowering all the windows too (might as well click all the seat belts too for max CoG reduction lol)
Last edited by SFactor2; 01-11-2009 at 08:59 PM.
#28
try the volk ce28n 15x6.5 (maybe 6" or even 5.5" width) +39mm offset with some hoosier a6's in 205-50-15, some adjustable shocks and max legal alignment (-1 front camber, try -2.5 camber out back, 3mm toe out front with 0 toe rear) and u should be good to go (i think these r the only legal mods) also try putting the seats in cargo mode, reclining the front passenger seat all the way down and lowering all the windows too (might as well click all the seat belts too for max CoG reduction lol)
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