Don't know why the Honda manual say's to bleed the front's first. Normally you would do the caliper FURTHEST from the master cylinder in order... RR, LR, RF, LF. No mater the method (I use a Motive pressurized bleeder), you will not be able to get the fluid out of the anti-lock manifold.

 

Can I request a detailed brake fluid change (possibly with pictures) for GD3? Thanks

 

patyong,

brake bleeding is nothing special to a make/model
couple of do's
1. don't spill any fluild on any painted surface, if you wipe and wash asap as it will strip paint.
2. take you time and don't rush
3. get feel for loosening and tightening bleeder nuts, finger tight only
4. get a suction syringe from harbor freight or save old kids medication syringes
5. buy a mityvac to vac out fluid from the bleeder hole, using this it much faster and less chance of air intrusion.
6. get the CORRECT brake fluid, dot 3 etc, CASTROL LMA at walmart or autostore is a great fluid.
7. DO NOT put syn fluid,
Steps:
1. Open brake fluid reservoir and suction out fluid and refill and with new fluid.
2. Keep it open and suction out fluid from the bleeders starting at pass rear > driver rear > pass front > driver front
3. Check reservoir often so it does not run dry, keep topping it off

 

Ohhh those bleeder nuts - most abused part, it isn't a bolt, so like he said, take your time and go easy.

 

Thanks for the tips. I've seen my mechanic done once before, it seems quite complicated as he had to get another person to help him to push in the brake peddle etc. And yes, he was also using a syringe, seems like he is sucking the air out.

 

I noticed several posts back that someone recommended using a bleeder device and that the system could be bled from one bleeder screw rather than having to do all four bleeders.

I'd STILL do all four, for two reasons:

1. Insurance that all contaminated fluid possible is expelled.

2. If you get in the habit of doing the same screw each time while ignoring the others you run the added risk of the other three screws corroding into place and then breaking when you eventually try to loosen them a decade or so from now.

 

It's actually not that complicated, even using the 2-person method. The procedure goes like this:

1. Suction most of the old fluid out of the reservoir using a syringe or even a turkey baster.

2. Fill the reservoir back up again using new fluid. (Keep the bottle of new fluid close to the reservoir so that you're prepared for the several top-ups of the reservoir that will be required during the system bleed).

3. Using the proper wrench (8mm I believe), crack open the first bleeder screw (farthest from the reservoir on all vehicles, unless otherwise stated in owners' or maintenance manual) to confirm it is not seized. Then snug it back up again.

3. Place one end of an approximately 18-inch length of clear flexible plastic hose of sufficient internal diameter (about 3/16ths-inch) onto the end of the bleeder screw and run the other end of the hose into a suitable container (coffee can or bottom half of a 4-quart milk jug works fine.

4. Open the bleeder screw about 1/2-turn or until it moves freely. Position your wrench so that you can easily open and close the bleeder with a quick 1/2-turn twist of your wrist.

5. Instruct your assistant to, on your directive once you've opened the bleeder screw, push the pedal half-way to the floor--- but NOT all the way down--- to hold the pedal in that position without letting up until you say so. If the pedal is let back up while the bleeder screw is open, air will be sucked into the system through the open bleeder screw. This is bad. As the pedal is depressed you should see a stream of old contaminated fluid shoot into the hose and drain into the container.

6. With the pedal still depressed, close the bleeder.

7. Once the bleeder is closed, instruct your assistant to let the pedal back up again. This will pull new fluid from the reservoir into the brake lines, replacing the old stuff that you'd just expelled.

8. Repeat the above procedure until you can see new (clear) fluid being expelled through the drain hose. But be sure to stop and top up the reservoir every five sequences or so. Failing to do this could allow the reservoir to run dry, which would then allow air to be sucked into the system from the reservoir.

9. Repeat the process at the other three bleeder screws in sequence, then top up the reservoir one final time to the 'max.' mark and replace the cap.

10. This last step is extremely important: With the park brake engaged, start the car and pump the brakes a few times until they feel firm. They'll likely feel spongy at first. I learned this the hard way when I was 16. After immediately climbing in and driving to my first stop sign I applied the brakes and got lots of sponginess but little (and uneven) braking. The car went sideways and entered the intersection. Fortunately for me there was no cross-traffic. A few pumps later my braking returned to normal, but I should have done this back when I was parked in the driveway.

This all sounds complex but really, a pair of first-timers could do it in about 1/2-hour to 45 minutes. A pro or seasoned do-it-yourself-er can get the job done in 15 minutes or less using this method.

 

How much brake fluid do you need??

 

About one pint should do it.

 

I tried to replace my brake fluid using a one-person bleeder that applies a vacuum to draw the old fluid out at each wheel. I found that air leaks by the threads on the loosened nut. Air is then entrained in the used fluid as it makes its exit and it takes an eternity to drain each line.

Does anyone know how to minimize or eliminate this problem? I'd rather not use Teflon tape.

I ended up going the old fashioned route and summoning my wife to repeatedly press and release the brake pedal, which worked great.

 

Get a hose that will fit and seal on your bleeder and place the end of it in a container (like a 32 oz gatorade bottle) with enough brake fluid in it to keep the hose submerged. Simply open the bleeder, pump, and any air in the system comes out... AND since the other end of the hose is submerged in brake fluid there isn't much worry of air being sucked back into the system.

For extra precaution, use Speed Bleeders. Basically they're brake bleeders with 1 way check balls inside. They allow fluid out during pedal depression and seal off when releasing.

 

Smear a layer of grease all the way around the base of the bleeder before starting. That will prevent most of the air from getting past the threads. (And, make it easier to crack open the bleeder the next time.)

 

Thanks guys. The dab'o'grease is a good idea Carbuff -- makes sense and I'll give it a try. Hootie's suggestion of adding Speedbleeders is a good workaround. Their website shows only the 1st Gen 2007 and 2008, but nothing newer. I wonder if these same sizes will fit on my Gen2 2013?

 

Yes, they should be the same sizes. To check, go to a Honda parts site and confirm... OR I think I may have part numbers in my build thread. Link is in signature.

 

I use a Power Bleeder with compressed air and it minimizes the possibility of air or other contaminants in the system; it also does not require you to pump the brake pedal. I start with the longest line from the master cylinder (RR) and flush it until it is clear. Then LR, RF then LF. When you do the fronts it is useful to repeatedly tap the front caliper with a hammer to dislodge air bubbles or other contaminants. This is what the Porsche 911 guys taught me and it has never failed. I always have a hard brake pedal.

 

Yes with the end of the hose submerged in brake fluid there isn't much chance of air being sucked back into the system – but some of the dirty brake fluid that you just pumped out, will be sucked back in – unless there is a check valve in the hose or as you suggested, in the speed bleeders. Simplest thing to do is to get one of those brake bleeder hoses that has a check valve inside or at one end. Cost is about $5.00. Speed bleeders are terrific but moving a single check valve from nipple works, for all practical purposes, as well, and costs less. Although speed bleeders will probably last longer than a cheap plastic check valve. They are non-corroding metal, and more precise. There are 4 of them, so each one gets only 1/4 of the use and 1/4 of the wear.

 

You can't bleed the entire system through a single bleed valve. Brake fluid doesn't just "drain" from the other lines leaving "space" (a vacuum) for the new fluid to occupy. The vacuum equipment creates a negative (less than atmospheric) pressure at one end of the system which, in turn, allows normal atmospheric pressure at the master cylinder to push fluid through a SINGLE brake line towards the open bleed screw.

Without the vacuum equipment you could just pump the master cylinder (explained here by others) to create a positive (greater than atmospheric) pressure at one end of the system which pushes the fluid through the path of least resistance, towards the OPEN bleed valve which is at normal atmospheric pressure. Fluid will not flow through "side branches" of the brake system unless the pressure at one end of the line is greater than the pressure at the other end.

Theoretically, you might be able to bleed all lines at the same time, but you would have to attach a reservoir of fresh brake fluid to EACH of the other three lines to allow fresh fluid to flow into the system through all of the bleed screws as well as the master cylinder. Too much work for me.

 

I like the grease idea. In addition, I would emphasize, just "crack" the bleed screw the minimum amount needed to get good fluid flow (maybe 1/4 turn). The more you unscrew the bleed screw, the greater the chance of sucking air back into the system.

Final thought: Speed Bleeders seem like a good idea, but they appear to be subject to the same problems as regular bleed screws. The internal check valve is very helpful, but unscrewing the Speed Bleeder more than a "crack" might result in air getting past the threads and into the system.

 

I always do gravity bleeding. Just have the reservoir open and filled to the top. Then open the bleeder screws one at a time and let the old fluid drip/drain out of the lines on their own! Gravity will cause them to drain. Just make sure the master cylinder reservoir does not get dry and no air will enter the system. Have been doing this for years. Very easy for one person to do and is perfectly effective and safe.

If you let the master cylinder get dry and air enter from the top, then you have to bleed the entire system by pumping the pedal and using a second person.

 

Chiltons claims that the bleeding sequence should be (I am assuming this is for a left-hand drive car) Front Left, Front Right, Rear Right, Rear Left. My translation into more concise language: at the wheel nearest the master cylinder, then looking down at the car from above, go from wheel to wheel in a clockwise fashion. Why? I don't know. Anyone know what Honda's official on-line service literature says?