grounding kit points
Banned
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,276
From: Hotter than the SUN
Why add more? Well, firstly as I said, its not going to make much difference either way. However, if your intention is to get as much out of it as possible then adding more grounding points would theoretically reduce the resistance in your circuit and hence give you that little bit more.
I've done this on my EP3-R and you can feel a slight difference but its nothing to write home about.
I've done this on my EP3-R and you can feel a slight difference but its nothing to write home about.
"Little bit more" Little bit more WHAT????
There is absolutely no way there is a "slight difference" in any type of performance or any engine power issues by installing any extra ground points. The two are not related if you "Feel" the difference it's all in your head by the placebo effect. Unless you ep3-r was such a beater than all the original grounding points where missing.
Last edited by claymore; Mar 12, 2008 at 01:27 AM.
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 37
From: London, UK
Originally Posted by Claymore
"Little bit more" Little bit more WHAT????
With that presumption in mind, I took the liberty not to explain myself fully.
So, for the sake of argument this is what I meant by a "little bit more" - for your information.
A typical car's electrical system runs on about 12V but under load-free conditions this can rise to between 13.8V to 14.2V with the engine running.
When you turn the fan on to max, the voltage in the system can drop to, say, 13V - now turn on the headlights and the voltage could drop to say 12.7V. This is what people experience with the dimming of the headlights, slowing of the fan etc.
Power hungry devices, such as headlights, heaters, electric windows, power-steering etc reduce the potential difference in your circuit and thus produce a "voltage drop".
Now couple this with circuitry which is of relatively high resistance/insufficient grounding, then this adverse effect is more noticeable. So what the grounding kit is theoretically doing is reducing the resistance in the circuit and giving you back that "little bit more" potential difference - i.e. reducing the amount of voltage drop and increasing the efficiency of the circuit. However, as I said, the difference is very small. As the Fit is apparently "well grounded" then the benefits of a grounding kit would probably not be noticeable. I hope that clarifies my point.
Originally Posted by Claymore
There is absolutely no way there is a "slight difference" in any type of performance or any engine power issues by installing any extra ground points. The two are not related if you "Feel" the difference it's all in your head by the placebo effect. Unless you ep3-r was such a beater than all the original grounding points where missing.
By the way, I don’t recall mentioning anything about performance or engine power issues? I don’t know where you got that from.
The difference I felt was merely to do with the throttle response and smoother engine characteristics which despite being minimal is consistent with what others have experienced. Oh, and if you need a bit more info on this, a highly qualified electrical engineer and company director of a UK engineering company sold (100+) kits to EP3-R owners and answered questions on the subject on an EP3-R forum alone after doing tests (with calibrated and certified equipment) before and after installing a grounding kit. He revealed that they do work. Look up “TP Earthing Kits” on civictype-r.co.uk. I’m sure they can explain it better than I can.
Last edited by CTR; Mar 12, 2008 at 12:58 PM.
Banned
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,276
From: Hotter than the SUN
The difference I felt was merely to do with the throttle response and smoother engine characteristics which despite being minimal is consistent with what others have experienced.
Oh, and if you need a bit more info on this, a highly qualified electrical engineer and company director of a UK engineering company sold (100+) kits to EP3-R owners and answered questions on the subject on an EP3-R forum alone after doing tests (with calibrated and certified equipment) before and after installing a grounding kit. He revealed that they do work. Look up “TP Earthing Kits” on civictype-r.co.uk. I’m sure they can explain it better than I can.
Of course THEY SAY THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO SELL A NON-NEEDED PRODUCT TO A BUNCH OF GULLIBLE CAR OWNERS.
The Fit is already WELL GROUNDED AS IT COMES FROM THE FACTORY. And there is ABSOLUTELY NO CORRELATION BETWEEN GROUNDS AND throttle response and smoothness NONE WHAT SO EVER.
"And increasing voltage drop means you need more grounds" what have you been drinking??? The only way to improve the performance of the circuit in automotive lighting applications (you know like cars) is to increase the output of the alternator not increasing grounds.
It's all a SALES GIMMICK if you need more information just look right here in Fitfreak there is a nice long thread that you can read and educate yourself to the facts and be sure and read the testing done by one of our own members checking for resistance and voltage drops and adding and subtracting grounds and his conclusion that it's all BS no DIFFERENCE and certainly no difference in smoothness or throttle response THEY ARE NOT EFFECTED IN ANY WAY BY GROUNDING.
In a modern vehicle like any USDM Fit that is only a few years old there is ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT TO INCREASING THE NUMBER OF GROUNDS. It comes direct from the factory with all the grounds it is ever going to need and all the BS you get is from the companies TRYING TO SELL USELESS UNNEEDED CRAP TO PEOPLE THAT DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER.
Oh, and if you need a bit more info on this, a highly qualified electrical engineer and company director of a UK engineering company sold (100+) kits to EP3-R owners and answered questions on the subject on an EP3-R forum alone after doing tests (with calibrated and certified equipment) before and after installing a grounding kit. He revealed that they do work. Look up “TP Earthing Kits” on civictype-r.co.uk. I’m sure they can explain it better than I can.
Of course THEY SAY THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO SELL A NON-NEEDED PRODUCT TO A BUNCH OF GULLIBLE CAR OWNERS.
The Fit is already WELL GROUNDED AS IT COMES FROM THE FACTORY. And there is ABSOLUTELY NO CORRELATION BETWEEN GROUNDS AND throttle response and smoothness NONE WHAT SO EVER.
"And increasing voltage drop means you need more grounds" what have you been drinking??? The only way to improve the performance of the circuit in automotive lighting applications (you know like cars) is to increase the output of the alternator not increasing grounds.
It's all a SALES GIMMICK if you need more information just look right here in Fitfreak there is a nice long thread that you can read and educate yourself to the facts and be sure and read the testing done by one of our own members checking for resistance and voltage drops and adding and subtracting grounds and his conclusion that it's all BS no DIFFERENCE and certainly no difference in smoothness or throttle response THEY ARE NOT EFFECTED IN ANY WAY BY GROUNDING.
In a modern vehicle like any USDM Fit that is only a few years old there is ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT TO INCREASING THE NUMBER OF GROUNDS. It comes direct from the factory with all the grounds it is ever going to need and all the BS you get is from the companies TRYING TO SELL USELESS UNNEEDED CRAP TO PEOPLE THAT DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER.
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 37
From: London, UK
Originally Posted by claymore
Of course THEY SAY THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO SELL A NON-NEEDED PRODUCT TO A BUNCH OF GULLIBLE CAR OWNERS.
Hold on, so what you're saying is that all these big manufacturers with all their expertise in tuning cars like Spoon, HKS, Buddyclub etc are selling us scam products. And that all these thousands of car owners/tuners who use grounding kits are just gullible. I suppose this applies to all their other products as well then? Hmm… so you honestly think that they would jeopardise their name and status simply to make a few dollars from their grounding kits? I don’t think so.
Originally Posted by claymore
The Fit is already WELL GROUNDED AS IT COMES FROM THE FACTORY.
Thank you for reiterating what I said.
Originally Posted by claymore
And there is ABSOLUTELY NO CORRELATION BETWEEN GROUNDS AND throttle response and smoothness NONE WHAT SO EVER.
Any evidence? If your only support to this theory is what you have read on this forum and based on the Fit only, then I honestly don’t think there’s sufficient backing to your argument.
Until I see any evidence that there is no correlation then I stand by my opinion and those of many others.
Originally Posted by claymore
"And increasing voltage drop means you need more grounds" what have you been drinking???
I take it that's a rhetorical question which doesn't need an answer. But if you’re actually interested, it’s probably something less potent than what you've been drinking.
Have you actually any idea what I am saying? Please re-read what I wrote. I said that the voltage drop is due to the electrical devices in the car. HOWEVER, if your car’s grounding is insufficient (not so for the Fit), thereby making the situation worse, then a grounding kit could help as it helps to reduce the resistance in the circuitry.
Originally Posted by claymore
The only way to improve the performance of the circuit in automotive lighting applications (you know like cars) is to increase the output of the alternator not increasing grounds.
So what you're saying is to improve the performance of a circuit in automotive lighting, there is no need for high conductivity, low resistance circuitry as long as you have an alternator throwing out more volts? Then with the same reasoning, I guess to improve the performance of a car, all you need is to increase the output of the engine but no need to improve the exhaust system?
Originally Posted by claymore
It's all a SALES GIMMICK if you need more information just look right here in Fitfreak there is a nice long thread that you can read and educate yourself to the facts and be sure and read the testing done by one of our own members checking for resistance and voltage drops and adding and subtracting grounds and his conclusion that it's all BS no DIFFERENCE and certainly no difference in smoothness or throttle response THEY ARE NOT EFFECTED IN ANY WAY BY GROUNDING.
Have you ever considered the fact that this member carried out his tests on a car (the Fit) that does not actually require further grounding? So isn’t his conclusion a bit obvious – i.e. that a grounding kit is not going to do anything for the Fit???
I’m sure you realise, the fit is not the only car in the world, so concluding that a grounding kit is not worthwhile on the Fit does NOT necessarily mean it is not worthwhile on another vehicle.
No one is disputing the fact that a grounding kit does very little to any vehicle (I have said this from the start) but unless you are prepared to provide evidence on this, neither you nor I can say with certainty that it does nothing to improve a car or otherwise.
Now, as it seems that you are failing to understand my point, my position on this is clear
- For any car that is already well grounded (E.g. the Fit), there is no point in having a grounding kit – this is blatantly obvious. I have said this several times already and this is what the guy who did the tests on this forum has also said.
- In my experience of installing a grounding kit on my EP3-R, this has made a slight improvement in terms of throttle response and smoother engine in my opinion/experience. (Note, this is my OPINION, I have never said this is a proven fact.) Nothing spectacular, but something I noticed.
- A grounding kit will make VERY little difference – again, I have said this from the beginning.
Originally Posted by claymore
In a modern vehicle like any USDM Fit that is only a few years old there is ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT TO INCREASING THE NUMBER OF GROUNDS. It comes direct from the factory with all the grounds it.
The Fit was launched around the same time as the EP3. So if the Fit is a modern car then the EP3 is too. I don’t suppose you have tested the grounding on the EP3-R or any other modern car to arrive at that conclusion have you?
I cannot make this any clearer for you, if you still struggle to understand what I am saying, I suggest you either re-read what I wrote or we can agree to disagree on the matter. Because frankly, this debate is getting a bit repetitive and boring.
Banned
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,276
From: Hotter than the SUN
That's because you keep rehashing old arguments you are relying on manufacturers pap and yes
"that all these big manufacturers with all their expertise in tuning cars like Spoon, HKS, Buddyclub etc are selling us scam products. And that all these thousands of car owners/tuners who use grounding kits are just gullible."
A very true statement that is what they are in business for selling products not keeping you happy think about some of their grounding kits grounding the spark plugs with cables forgive me but the spark plugs are screwed directly to the head which is a dead short to the block which is a dead short to the alternator the whole circuit is a dead short IN OTHER WORDS IT CAN'T GET ANY BETTER GROUND but they will sell you a kit that does just that needless wires DOING NOTHING.
You are getting yourself all worked up in a knot talking about cars other than the fit/Jazz WHO CARES what you did or did not do to your other cars in this thread we are talking about the Fit/Jazz and no matter what you think or some other off the wall theory of electrical circuits the Fit/JAZZ comes from the factory with all the grounds it will ever need.
And there is no correlation to smoothness or throttle response because the amount of grounds have no connection on either operation it's all in your head.
I have no trouble reading your posts it's just that your convoluted logic and cut and paste words from manufactures websites style of posting makes it difficult to follow I will be happy to debate this or any other subject you wish to pontificate on without knowing what you are taking about and it shows in your defense of this worthless product.
"that all these big manufacturers with all their expertise in tuning cars like Spoon, HKS, Buddyclub etc are selling us scam products. And that all these thousands of car owners/tuners who use grounding kits are just gullible."
A very true statement that is what they are in business for selling products not keeping you happy think about some of their grounding kits grounding the spark plugs with cables forgive me but the spark plugs are screwed directly to the head which is a dead short to the block which is a dead short to the alternator the whole circuit is a dead short IN OTHER WORDS IT CAN'T GET ANY BETTER GROUND but they will sell you a kit that does just that needless wires DOING NOTHING.
You are getting yourself all worked up in a knot talking about cars other than the fit/Jazz WHO CARES what you did or did not do to your other cars in this thread we are talking about the Fit/Jazz and no matter what you think or some other off the wall theory of electrical circuits the Fit/JAZZ comes from the factory with all the grounds it will ever need.
And there is no correlation to smoothness or throttle response because the amount of grounds have no connection on either operation it's all in your head.
I have no trouble reading your posts it's just that your convoluted logic and cut and paste words from manufactures websites style of posting makes it difficult to follow I will be happy to debate this or any other subject you wish to pontificate on without knowing what you are taking about and it shows in your defense of this worthless product.
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 37
From: London, UK
Originally Posted by claymore
That's because you keep rehashing old arguments you are relying on manufacturers pap and yes
Er.. no! You obviously can't read very well if you think that. Read again.
Originally Posted by claymore
Originally Posted by ”CTR”
"that all these big manufacturers with all their expertise in tuning cars like Spoon, HKS, Buddyclub etc are selling us scam products. And that all these thousands of car owners/tuners who use grounding kits are just gullible."
Originally Posted by claymore
think about some of their grounding kits grounding the spark plugs with cables forgive me but the spark plugs are screwed directly to the head which is a dead short to the block which is a dead short to the alternator the whole circuit is a dead short IN OTHER WORDS IT CAN'T GET ANY BETTER GROUND but they will sell you a kit that does just that needless wires DOING NOTHING.
Originally Posted by claymore
You are getting yourself all worked up in a knot talking about cars other than the fit/Jazz
Originally Posted by claymore
WHO CARES what you did or did not do to your other cars in this thread we are talking about the Fit/Jazz and no matter what you think or some other off the wall theory of electrical circuits the Fit/JAZZ comes from the factory with all the grounds it will ever need.
Originally Posted by claymore
And there is no correlation to smoothness or throttle response because the amount of grounds have no connection on either operation it's all in your head.
Originally Posted by claymore
I have no trouble reading your posts
Originally Posted by claymore
it's just that your convoluted logic and cut and paste words from manufactures websites style of posting makes it difficult to follow I will be happy to debate this or any other subject you wish to pontificate on without knowing what you are taking about and it shows in your defense of this worthless product.
Mate, I’m no phd expert myself, but I have designed and hand built race car with ex-F1 contractors, have a masters degree in engineering, worked with Yamaha and BMW engine techs' and as an professional engineer for 8+ years. And I’ve got to admit, I have heard some unfounded nonsense in my time, but nothing like this in all my professional career!
Last edited by CTR; Mar 14, 2008 at 10:59 AM.
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