I don't have many upgrades and any problems I have had so far I cannot directly attribute to the kit. The MAP sensor problem I was having was most likely due to constant vacuum problems I've had for a while - I was only asking people regarding what effect an incorrectly working MAP can have when going into boost with the KWSC kit.

 

The horse power peaks 1200 or so RPM before the stock engine does and is still making far more than the maximum for the stock engine when the rev limiter kicks in...... The torque increase is what you really feel though.

 

to be technical about it, acceleration is due to power. acceleration is the sensation you're perceiving. torque is an important part, but only a part, of power. we'll save that for another thread.

the whole thing about getting 30% more power, while it sounds impressive, kinda isn't. i've been thinking about it - making a 30% gain in the stock market sounds great, but the percentage is relevant only for bragging to your friends. the actual increase in cash is what changes your position in life.

invest one dollar and turn it into 1.30 and that's 30%. 30 cents - not exactly a meaningful amount of money.

on another note, it's interesting that no one has had a negative response yet. keep em coming!

 

I dynoed my car before the sc and had 85 whp after it was 112whp

 

what kind of dyno?

 

My Fit was dyno'd at KW when I stopped by after installing the kit - the dyno looked almost identical to what they put on their website for the AT kit

Kraftwerks USA Dyno Results

 

Percentage wise, that's even more impressive than the example above.

 

I think you're wrong here. Theoretically, a bum whose whole wealth is his $1 in his hand would love a 30 cent return from the stock market. Of course you wouldn't, seeing as you probably make anywhere from 20k to 70k (You could make billions, I don't know). Let's just say though, that you make 50K of which you consume 90% and save 10%, so you're investing 5K of your salary. You would love to make 30% on that right? That's $1,500 that you didn't have before. That's awesome, you're elated. Now consider Warren Buffett who is literally worth billions. Does that $1,500 mean a thing to him? Absolutely not, he could lose $1,500 by the minute and probably wouldn't notice. By the same note, he could make $1,500 in a day and he literally wouldn't give a damn. This just goes to show that it's all about your situation, percentages matter. That's why I'd love to have say, even an increase of 10hp on my fit.

 

Compare the power band to that you would have with a turbo or other modifications that lags then peaks and drops or only makes power at the top of the rev range....Even when you have revved past the peak your acceleration is considerably stronger than a stock engine and shifting right at the limiter puts you far enough into the upper part of the power band to still accelerate at a much higher rate and feels like you have installed a close ratio gear set or larger engine.... I can easily hit 90MPH in the same distance that I could only get up to 70 in before..... A dyno's results are useless if all you are looking at is the maximum power.

 

Torque is the only real measurement of the force that accelerates an engine. Power is just a number calculated from that using engine speed (i.e. an abstract rpm point of 5,252). Peak HP is only useful when it's the only number we look at, and when certain assumptions about gearing are made.

e.g. If you've got a car that makes 100 lb/ft. of torque @ both 2k and 7k rpms, that means it's making 38hp @ 2k, and 133hp @ 7k. But is the car going to accelerate 250% faster at the high rpm than the low one? Nope. It's going to accelerate exactly the same at both, because the torque is the same.

So when we're looking at our dyno plots trying to ascertain value to the modifications we're making, people really need to start ignoring hp completely, and only look at the torque curves (and the area underneath them).

 

oh really?
what's more useful: 1,000 ft*lbs of Q @ 0 rpm or 1 ft*lb of Q @ 1rpm?

 

^^ neither cuz your car would stall at that low of an rpm lol

 

Ok no need for debates here.

kennef if you're still waiting for someone to stand up and say how much they regretted the KWSC, be prepared to wait a while.

 

I was able to completely outrun and shut down a road raging Mazda minivan that was riding on my ass today, thanks to the magic of boost. Feels good man.

 

Which point are you disagreeing with?

Obviously, rpm's are useful in a car, and the reason for that is gearing. More rpms means more aggressive gearing can be used, and that means more torque to the wheels.

But when we're determining the value of engine modifications, gearing doesn't change. So numbers calculated by weighting torque at varying rpms (i.e. horsepower) are useless to us.

 

yeah, i got that impression. not a bad thing by any means. but the act of paying for an item, investing time and more money to install it, etc plays heavily into how people review an item.

i'm no exception. on another car, i spent a lot of money on chassis setup. i have since sold that car, only to get the same car again (not the one i sold, unfortunately) and it now has maybe 15% of the money involved in suspension. i'm probably having more fun now than i did with the original car because i can more easily slide the car around, it doesn't ride as harshly, etc.

but my review of the first car with proper setup was absolutely glowing. i was enamored with the hardware, the money spent, etc. now that i have another perspective on that process, i know that the act of paying for something, and looking for ways to justify it once the deed is done, played heavily into how i thought about it.

 

The money spent and time invested is reaffirmed every time I drive my car.... I wish like hell I could say that about every thing I've owned and worked on.

 

right. rpm matters. because we're talking about a car in motion. torque is an integral part of measuring the work and power that an engine can produce. and so is rpm.

to simplify things to torque alone discounts the fact that what we really care about is changing the vehicle's speed, over some distance, over some period of time. producing an infinite amount of torque but not actually moving (such as 1000 ft*lbs @ 0 rpm) means nothing because no work has been done. producing 1000ft*lbs @ 1000rpm vs 1000ft*lbs at 10,000 rpm are functionally very different things. again, to argue that torque is the only important factor discounts the fact that the car is in motion, accelerating, over a period of time.

 

I drive my KWSC A/T Fit ALOT, to the tune of 126 miles round trip every time I go to work and back home, 102212 miles on the odometer so far.

The kit has been an absolute joy to own, I'd never go back to non forced induction. I only wish there was some way to put High Boost in the AT Fit's only because I'd like "just a little bit more"...yeah I'm hooked.

 

Torque is the measurement of twisting force that can be brought to bear, regardless of rpm. Electric motors & steam engines make all their torque @ zero rpms - and despite making zero horsepower at that time, they accelerate just fine.

X amount of torque @ 10k rpms can, indeed, do more work than the same amount @ 1k rpms. But that advantage in work can only be realized through gearing. And once again, our gearing isn't changing.

For an example that pertains to this thread, take a look at the recent revision to the kit that Kraftwerks made. Despite actually lowering the amount of peak hp available, the new revision is faster.

For a hands-on test you can do yourself, go time your car as it accelerates from 3000 to 4000 rpms, then again from 4-5000 rpms (in the same gear, obviously). The torque curve along those two spreads are close enough to be usable as a comparison - and I guarantee the car won't be faster at the higher rpm. If anything, it will be slightly slower due to more wind resistance.