KWSC - was it worth it?
Torque is the measurement of twisting force that can be brought to bear, regardless of rpm. Electric motors & steam engines make all their torque @ zero rpms - and despite making zero horsepower at that time, they accelerate just fine.
X amount of torque @ 10k rpms can, indeed, do more work than the same amount @ 1k rpms. But that advantage in work can only be realized through gearing. And once again, our gearing isn't changing.
For an example that pertains to this thread, take a look at the recent revision to the kit that Kraftwerks made. Despite actually lowering the amount of peak hp available, the new revision is faster.
For a hands-on test you can do yourself, go time your car as it accelerates from 3000 to 4000 rpms, then again from 4-5000 rpms (in the same gear, obviously). The torque curve along those two spreads are close enough to be usable as a comparison - and I guarantee the car won't be faster at the higher rpm. If anything, it will be slightly slower due to more wind resistance.
X amount of torque @ 10k rpms can, indeed, do more work than the same amount @ 1k rpms. But that advantage in work can only be realized through gearing. And once again, our gearing isn't changing.
For an example that pertains to this thread, take a look at the recent revision to the kit that Kraftwerks made. Despite actually lowering the amount of peak hp available, the new revision is faster.
For a hands-on test you can do yourself, go time your car as it accelerates from 3000 to 4000 rpms, then again from 4-5000 rpms (in the same gear, obviously). The torque curve along those two spreads are close enough to be usable as a comparison - and I guarantee the car won't be faster at the higher rpm. If anything, it will be slightly slower due to more wind resistance.
1. gearing is irrelevant in your example. it's the same car, with the power adder the difference. gear ratios are constant.
2. you've mentioned the effect of drag. very important - drag effect is exponential relative to velocity. so even if the perception of acceleration is less because of drag effects, it's because of drag, not because power is somehow less important.
why do i care how much torque a motor can produce if we aren't moving? because if you're not moving, even an infinite amount of torque means nothing because nothing is happening. what's happening in real life (not instantaneously, because i haven't developed the ability to freeze time) is what matters, and the newtonian physics definitions of power and work capture displacement, acceleration, and time. which is what is happening when you accelerate a car from one speed to another.
the instantaneous torque value matters very much in the design process, such as the amount of material needed in gearboxes and the strength of axles. but power is what you are experiencing ALL the time when you drive. torque is only one part of what is physically happening.
I drive my KWSC A/T Fit ALOT, to the tune of 126 miles round trip every time I go to work and back home, 102212 miles on the odometer so far.
The kit has been an absolute joy to own, I'd never go back to non forced induction. I only wish there was some way to put High Boost in the AT Fit's only because I'd like "just a little bit more"...yeah I'm hooked.
The kit has been an absolute joy to own, I'd never go back to non forced induction. I only wish there was some way to put High Boost in the AT Fit's only because I'd like "just a little bit more"...yeah I'm hooked.
and anyone else that has the kwsc, would you mind posting your updated #s for mpg, and pls specify MT or AT? i'm seriously considering the kit. thanks!
ok last request for now - talk to me about sound.
I was able to not drive exuberantly for a full tank and got 37.4 MPG driving 90% highway , which is 2 MPG lower than my best while N/A... 33.7 is a more realistic figure and 28 is what I have gotten while driving at speeds I won't talk about on this forum.... The intake noise is quieter than an AEM cold air intake and exhaust is just slightly louder than it would be with whatever system you have when it is on boost..... The Rotrex makes some whirring sounds as the boost comes on and after the throttle is closed while on boost.... My car is manual transmission equipped.
wave, what kind of mpg are you getting? do you have before and after #s?
and anyone else that has the kwsc, would you mind posting your updated #s for mpg, and pls specify MT or AT? i'm seriously considering the kit. thanks!
ok last request for now - talk to me about sound.
and anyone else that has the kwsc, would you mind posting your updated #s for mpg, and pls specify MT or AT? i'm seriously considering the kit. thanks!
ok last request for now - talk to me about sound.
From filled up to the point where the gas is going to spill out I usually get to around 250 miles before the needle says halfway. I'd love to see what my car can do if I drove it at a constant 60mph but thats damn near impossible around my neck of the woods.
Stop n' go LA traffic (85% street, 15% hwy) I get 25-27 mpg with my AT.
Sounds are not a big deal whatsoever, like Texas Coyote I get the whirring sounds but I think I also hear a sucking sound from my intake on idle. You also get a mini BOV sound after letting off the gas. Overall though if you have music on you'll hear pretty much nothing unless you punch it.
Sounds are not a big deal whatsoever, like Texas Coyote I get the whirring sounds but I think I also hear a sucking sound from my intake on idle. You also get a mini BOV sound after letting off the gas. Overall though if you have music on you'll hear pretty much nothing unless you punch it.
The system recirculates, it doesnt VTA, hence the bypass valve.
good gosh, i wish i could get 29-30 with normal driving. glad to hear it's recirc.
Your question "was it worth it?" is most definitely yes from me.... At my age most of my legitimate reasons for driving at all is to medical appointments and that is probably the only driving that I would do if my car wasn't now so much fun to drive.... Even the installation of the kit was fun even if it took me two or three times longer than it would have 30 years ago.... I am very happy that I spent the money on this kit instead of other crap that just looks good and does nothing to really improve performance. I am going out for some fun on some back roads in a little while just like I did yesterday..... See Ya.
Your question "was it worth it?" is most definitely yes from me.... At my age most of my legitimate reasons for driving at all is to medical appointments and that is probably the only driving that I would do if my car wasn't now so much fun to drive.... Even the installation of the kit was fun even if it took me two or three times longer than it would have 30 years ago.... I am very happy that I spent the money on this kit instead of other crap that just looks good and does nothing to really improve performance. I am going out for some fun on some back roads in a little while just like I did yesterday..... See Ya.
There is a guy in the Houston area doing AutoX in an automatic transmission equipped car that was on fitfreak but I don't know what class he was competing in or how well he places.... You would probably be in a class where the high boost kit with a mess of more expensive modifications would be needed to be competitive. There are more rules and regulations in organized automotive competition than there is in driving on the street so I'll never have first hand knowledge about how it does on the track.... I am well past the anal stage of development and wouldn't do well in competition.
i had the KWSC on my car. i had to take it off because something hit the rotrex oil filter and all the oil spilled out. one thing i would've done different is that i would have bought and installed the beatrush under panel. when it was in my car i never regret it. i loved the kit. install and forget it (that is if you install it right). i am turbo now. i would talk about that but i don't want to go off topic. bottom line:
it is worth it
it is worth it
actually, i think your change to a turbo is very interesting and could shed light on whether a kwsc is worth it or not. there's got to be a reason you didn't go back to a kwsc/ ventured off to a turbo when it doesn't seem as popular to do so.
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 120
From: Los Angeles
I rode in a Kraftwerks Fit years ago when it was still a prototype and the memory I have of it, according to my "butt dyno", is that it FEELS VERY quick! It almost felt as quick as an S2000. But of course my memory may be distorted or something. Maybe it's the Fit's super short gear ratio. Anyways, it pulled HARD.
