why settle for tube-fin when brazed aluminum LPD costs the same or less? Long's tru-cool can be found on ebay for cheap.

i'm not talking about how much it can actually dish out, i'm talking about the turbos ability to give a SUDDEN burst of power vs. a s/c's gradual and linear power increase. hence the term "turbo lag". s/c's have immediate power as its pulley driven. turbo spools, and once spooled, its a huge leap in torque in little time, therefore generating more heat in the TC.

centrifugal > roots. roots are good, but most types i've seen for the Si/RSX's do not have an aftercooler to safely run 10+psi. therefore, power is limited.

 

lol you're funny. its not off topic. this thread may lead others to believe that the cooler is dire and necessary for simple bolt on mods and hard driving in the city.

the basis for a transmission cooler is what its name is.

of course clutch packs emit heat. hell the whole engine and transmission do that all the time. all Honda cars do it. is the heat damaging the internals? only if u're introducing ginormous loads and power that exceeds way beyond the factory. (ie. boost) the entire TC does most of the work in the transmission.

if the cooler was needed, then it would come in the USDM version as well. hell the stock trans cooler is a cooler of its own inside the radiator. if the JDM has the external cooler, then they probably do not incorporate the internal cooler. and for all we know the JDM and USDM are not EXACTLY the same. JDM tends to come with extra things, USDM tones it down, but never compromises the integrity of the vehicle. do you REALLY believe a N/A Fit auto can reach the extreme temps to where it will pose a danger to the tranny???

yes i do have a trans temp gauge. so wat? lets me know when i need to cool it at the track. never goes above normal temps on regular driving. your trans temp also correlates somewhat with your ECT since they both run thru the radiator. but you'll get a CEL when you trans fluid is overheating and the D light will be flashing at you. the trans has a temp sensor of its own to monitor.

duuuh, thats one of the reasons why ATF is there. Honda ATF does a fine job. but when you're introducing extreme loads and torque frequently, the ATF is more prone to breaking down faster and you'll have to do trans fluid changes mroe frequently. hence why i suggested SYNTHETIC. are you familiar with the differences between dino oil and synthetic oils? its less prone to break down from heat, performs better in cold weather, lubricates better, high tolerance to heat, longer change intervals, etc.

did you know the auto trans works on fluidity, unlike a manual trans? the better the flow, the quicker shifts are made, and the less time the TC is actively working in between the shift. A torque converter is basically a fluid coupling between your engine and transmission. There is no direct mechanical link until the torque converter is in lockup mode. The pump assembly of the torque converter is directly linked to the crankshaft of the engine, however the turbine assembly of the torque converter is not.

what is your basis for questioning me? Have you seen how similar all recent Honda/Acura auto transmissions are? hell, they practially use a lot of similar parts when you go look it up in the parts list/numbers. they all work in the same way. i had to do tons of research before even attempting to crack my trans open.

 

again, my basis for when a cooler is needed/not needed.

n/a bolt-on, city/hard driving=no
" tracking/road racing =yes/no, try Amsoil ATF first.
boosted= yes, with Honda or Amsoil ATF. first use Honda's. after say 10k miles, get an oil ****ysis done to see if its breaking down too soon and debris content. if results are good, then stick with Honda. and repeat ****ysis at 20k. and so forth.

^LOL wtf, i cant even use the word "a n a l ysis"

 

i don't think anyone is trying to say its a MUST have. i'm just looking to prolong the life of the auto tranny as they do tend to die a bit prematurely sometimes and the cooler may help extend its life. i don't see it as being detrimental, just supplemental.

 

someone questions my reasoning, i provide facts to back it up. just want to prevent misleading information from being spread.

i have no need to impress you nor anyone else. do as you may, i could care less.

 

wow, you are just plain talking out of your ass. very mature for a moderator.

i DO use a trans cooler on my car. trans temp was on the car right before i boosted so i did monitor temps, since hell, i got the damn gauge might as well look at it from time to time. i implied that everyone knew this about me since i fall under my own guidelines for when to use a cooler: "boosted". i didnt know i had to show a whole resume and resumes OF my resumes. had to show proof for another proof.

we do not need to go into specifics about MY setup and experience with trans temps, but if u wish, lets do it.

at the track, to properly launch an automatic, you brake torque/launch. this procedure causes the TC to heat up VERY fast, as i can see via temp gauge. brake launching is when you hold the brake all the way, and step on the gas (stalling up). this is where TONS of heat is generated, in the TC as it is actively engaged. the gears are not working during this time. the TC is the MAIN thing working your transmission. and when excessive heat is generated, bearings and clutch packs within it start to fail. yah, other components heat up too, but the TC is the first to go. once thats gone, your whole trans will be useless. so dont worry about other parts. (note: do not stall your stock TC unnecessary!!!! mines is built and is a high-stall)

exhibit A: boosted, at the track w/ tempgauge, cooler, Honda ATF
you can see the temp go up as you're stalling. once you go, its still heating. at the end of the run, its already in cool-down time. crusing back to the lot and ATF is cooling at the same time down back to normal temps. but repeated runs the shifts are choppy and take long to engage.

switch to Amsoil, hit tracks again, temps still heated up, but cooled down, and shifts are still solid after repeated runs.

exhibit B: bolt-ons, temp gauge, no cooler, city driving, even "beating" on occasions, CONSTANT stop n go driving (i work and live in downtown houston)
Temps stayed in constant range throughout drives. does not go up much higher than ECTs. (i can read my exact ECT's b/c i have Hondata Kpro engine management. oh btw, i work with Hondata, hence why i'm the only RSX automatic with KPro)

i've gotten oil a n al ysis done on both fluids. results were for personal use and i threw them away. never thought i had to post them up but results were clear, Honda ATF broke down sooner than Amsoil. but this holds true for any synthetic vs. dino oil. DUH!

Towing vehicles, delivery trucks, SUVs/Trucks all have transmission coolers. even higher end cars like the TL. but again, look at their torque load from the factory. nothing small like the Fit's. again, i ask, do you REALLLY believe the Fit can put out the amount of low end torque enough to beat and heat up the tranny to the point where it will fail, even with constant beating, stop n go driving???? (excluding track, road racing, and neutral dropping) it does not put anything CLOSE to the vehicles above in load duty. if you really believe it can harm the tranny, maybe you are taking the phrase "1.5L of Micro-Muscle Fury" too much to heart.

what are you talking about with me and one trans under my belt? i ran stock transmission with boost for a good couple of months before i even built the spare trans. my stock trans is in the shed. i went with a built trans for the track and better daily driving experience. so does everyone need a certain amount of credentials under their belt before they can give advice here??? well i'm gona ask for your credentials for questioning my credentials.

i stated outright when/why/what applications are when a cooler is NEEDED/NOT NEEDED plain and simple. why make it anymore complicated?? i'm not trying to confuse anyone. hell, this whole post will lead others away by itself. no one wants to read a ****ing essay on the subject. if you wanted to, go search on the internet.

i'm not forcing anyone to believe me, i'm posting up information and suggestions i've picked up from people who work on transmissions and race autos for a living, its the members' choice to take it or not. i could care less.

 

I drive City 2005 1.3L auto and I have Hayden ATF cooler I bought it as it was cheap and thought that I will do mods in the future I might do more mods in the car, which I did like bored TB, header, and light pulley which in the end let me drive my car harder and I am sure my ATF is getting hot but with the cooler I guess it's much better and I have heard that stock coolers that are with the radiator don't work good as the radiator is already hot. I have mine after the radiator and which this way it will give the raditaor less stress because the ATF will be already cooler. I bought ATF cooler because it's very hot in the summer back here as it can hit 40c and how much it will be in the ATF, I am sure very high, and ATF coolers are real cheap especially Hayden and I know it will make my AT live more.
I also bought it because we don't have synth ATF oil but we have synth motor oil. The dealer told me to put CVT Honda oil that cost $87 and my car isn't CVT but auto and they change it at 40k, what I do is that I install Mobil ATF for $13 and change it every 10K. My last words it isn't a must if you drive normal but if you drive hard and will do a lot of mods then it's better to buy one as it's cheap.

 

its fine that you put one in. does no harm.

the radiator cooler does its job just fine: to keep constant operating temps of 180-205. thats the same temp range where the ATF needs to be in order to tell the ECU that its in "warmed-up" state. any cooler than 180, the auto ecu will think its still a cold engine, torque lock-up mechanism will not engage. the temps of the trans fluid will stay constant with the coolant temps. its basic physics: when one fluid is hotter than another, the heat will transfer to the cooler state.

lets say ATF is hotter than coolant, the coolant will absorb the heat, and take that heat away, bring the ATF to the same temps as coolant:180-205. now if the coolant gets any hotter, ECU is set to turn the fans on at 205. but, since the vehicle is moving, temps will normally stay at 185-195. if it overheats, then you have other issues aside from ATF.

i've never used Mobil 1 ATF, but make sure it specifically states on there that it can be used in HONDAs. Dexron III will not be sufficient, as it does not contain the high friction modifiers needed by our nit-picky Honda trannies.

it does no harm to have one, but again, if u drive hard with bolt-ons, its still not needed. you can always check the color of your atf to see if its broken down from this "hard driving". ATF does not get dirty like motor oil unless there is something really wrong with the transmission, so it stays a constant color, purplish.

 

Mine is in the middle of the radiator so the fan will cool it.

 

great, thats where you want it. fan or not, as long as its exposed when driving and air is blowing at it. (ie. front of the car) Just dont rule out the stock trans/radiator cooler as useless and insufficient for the "hard driving".

becareful to not let the lines kink anywhere. if the line looks like its touching any metal edge or close to it, wrap it with thermal cloth or tape thick foam around it. for insurance. for extra insurance for the lines, use -6AN stainless steel braided line. although its not needed as the routing of the lines isnt complicated at all on the Fit.

 

Mine is way up, as I thought that with the fan behind and when the fan is on it will cool more and better than if it's way down and only gets air when driving. I also get little air from the front grill.

 

just installed a cyberdine blue led digital trans temp gauge today nested inside a carbon fiber cup with a swivel mount. looks sweet. i added another sending unit to the line going from the tranny to the cooler to get a more accurate temp of the fluid as it leaves the tranny.

so far the reading i got today was around 140 farenheight. that ws just taking it for a ride around town. not on the highway. The coolant temp in the radiator was around 175. i wish the damn helms manual said what the normal operating temp was for the fit A/T. Obviously in the cold winters it would be cooler. in the summer is when the tranny cooler will prove most useful. A little concerned that if i use the cooler in the winter the fluid will be too cold. But the cooler i got has LPD so hopefully it is doing what it is supposed to do.

I am gonna call honda tomorrow cause i have to schedule my element for service(windshield washer fluid motor is kaput) so i will ask them. Maybe they know what the temp range is supposed to be for the A/T.

 

the fan does not kick on during high speed cruising. keep the cooler exposed to direct airflow. its like an intercooler.

 

140 is pretty low. 175 is also just a tiny bit low for coolant temps. (normal range set by Honda is 176. if ecu doesnt see 176, its not "warmed".) even for winter, temps will always stay in "operating range". its just that the engine bay will seem cooler in the cold months, for obvious reasons.

how are you reading the coolant temp? aftermarket coolant temp gauge? if so, does it use its own sender like the ATF? if the car drives normal, then it should be fine. trust me, you'll know when your coolant/atf is not warmed up.

when i messed around with my ecus, i forgot to connect a coolant temp wire into the ecu controlling the auto trans, the car would act funny. Grade logic control and torque lock-up did not engage and rpms revved freely while cruising as if i'm in neutral. comes to find out that the ecu thinks the engine is still cold and doesnt want to harm the torque lockup mechanisms. since i couldnt split 1 coolant signal to 2 ecus, i just bypassed it with resistors from radioshack. made the auto ecu believe that its "warmed up" all the time.

 

i use the scangauge II ODB diagnostic tool to show the coolant temp. I have no driveability concerns whatsoever. The coolant temp is consistantly between 168 and 175 during the past month or so with the colder weather. even after a 1+ hour commute. if i turn the heat on it kicks in the fan which keeps it cooler around 168. without the fan it is between 170 and 180 depending on outside temp and stop-and-go.

according to the helms manual the thermostat doesn't start to open until 180 or so. that makes no sense to me. that would mean that after driving the car for an hour no radiator fluid has circulated through the engine. off on a tangent here but worth mentioning. still want to know what the range is for the A/T tranny temp. hopefully honda will have some answers tomorrow.

 

yah, i'm basing my "warmed up" numbers from various Honda helms manuals. but i dont have the Fit's. usually, its the same range as the coolant.

your Cyberdyne gauge could be off a bit. i never heard of the brand, but my Autometer trans gauge seems pretty accurate to ECT's.

as long as the car drives normal and shifts normally, you're good to go btw, i only use Actron OBD2 scanner. its the one trusted by most mechanics and shops. so there could be a margin of error in the reader itself.

 

That's true but since i have the AC on most of the year the fan works a lot.

 

if u're a/c's on then yes, it'll turn on.

like you said, when it reaches a certain temp, it will kick on. but will cut off shortly on high speeds. its just a trigger signal sent from the ECM in reaction to certain conditions set. but again, its better mounted directly to airflow than to depend on the fan only.

how do i know? i have Kpro. tells me on the laptop when fan comes on or not. this is the radiator fan, NOT a/c fan.

 

I think you are right about the gauge being off. a reading of 90 degrees when the water temp is 170 is not right to me. Since the Fit uses rubber hoses to route the tranny fluid to and from the radiator it is hard to get a good ground for the sending unit. A tried soldering in a ground on the compression fitting that the sending unit is connected to and it is still low.

Got off the phone with cyberdyne and they are sending me (FOC) a new sending unit that has 2 wires. 1 for the temp readings and 1 for the ground. both are on the sending unit itself. It was designed specifically for this type of application. Then it must be wired as follows:

1)ground from sending unit connects directly to ground coming from the gauge itself.

2)jumper from that connection to a solid engine ground.

Hopefully i will get it soon and will have accurate temp readings shortly after that.

 

^its best to ground the sending unit directly to the body close by. no need tap it to gauge's ground. what i did was wrap the ground wire around the NPT threading, then wrap some thread sealer around the wire to secure it, and then twist in the sender into the T-fitting along.