Whats going on peeps? Well here is the situation. I have two 12" JL W3v3's brand new in box never used for my 2008 GD Sport. however, i have the opportunity to get two brand new 12" kicker L7's for a good deal. i have really fallen in love with how the kicker LOOKS but when it comes down to it i rather have quality sound over anything, which ones should i go with (dont worry about me wasting money on new subs i already have a buyer lined up for the jl's if i go with the kickers).

My friends say that the kickers will destroy my car (literally) and it might even break my windows but they know about as much as i do when it comes to car audio. Another thing is i am not gonna be crankin it up to that point all that often. Maybe when im just trying to show off . Im really torn on what to do and i gotta make a decision pretty soon.

Also i was planning on going with the infinity kappa perfects for my mids and highs (im getting a sweet deal on those as well ) unless you guys think there may be some thing that would probably suit me better. I really havent gotten a chance to personally hear that many door speakers so i could definitely use some help there as well.

I appreciate the help guys!

 

jls will sound better than the kickers, but the kickers will get louder if given the power

 

Keep the JLs dude

 

Sound quality is derived from more than just subwoofer choice, it comes from that along with the type of amplification, equalization and other factor's. To say one woofer will or will not sound better is a opinion at best. I have seen, built and done a lot in the 22+ years I have been in the car audio world. And one thing I can tell you is that YOUR ears have to decide. Now granted some subs will perform better than others for things such as response and SPL output, but in general to say that the L7 cannot sound as clean or precise as the JLs is inaccurate. I have been a Judge for IASCA and I have looked over, worked on and judged some of the best in the US including world champion cars. And a few of those have included Kicker L7 equipped vehicles. And they are quite capable of being clean and accurate for someone who is more Sound Quality oriented, just as well they can be very LOUD if the enclosure is designed for it and the proper amplifier used in conjunction with it. JL has not really been known for SPL or LOUDNESS in lame terms. However that is not to say they cannot get loud.

If you were to ask me can JLs compete on a national level in SPL, I would tell you no. I have seen many try and fail, bottom line is JL Audio is not really interested in the die hard SPL market, and to a degree I can understand that because in reality that market is a very small share of what there is to the car audio marketplace. Kicker on the other hand has done both, they have designed subs that can both be clean and accurate for SQ and yet with the right design and other factors involved can be SPL machines.

So really the bottom line here is what do you want? Do you want something that sounds clean but not really oriented to get loud? Or do you want something that can be clean and still get down and shake that mirror on the front window so you can't see shiz out it? If it's the first, stick with your JLs, if it's the second I would run the L7's.

One final note, you cannot and will not break glass with 2 12's, no matter how hard you try, how much power you throw at them. It takes literally in a 12" sub 10 times that much cone area, amplification and air movement before you will ever have to worry about glass breaking. However if you really want to see some glass breaking, just look up King of Bass on youtube, that is a friend of mine Tommy McKinnie, he lives here in FL and has one of the loudest nastiest trucks that rolls the streets.

As with any audio post I do on here, if you have questions feel free to PM me.

 

I really appreciate the help, i just want to make sure that my car wont start falling apart. They might have exaggerated with the whole windows breaking but will i have problems with my door panels falling apart or my locks getting warped or anything else damaging??? Sorry if it sounds dumb but i dont know all that much about it.

With regards to the amp what should i get? Kicker products is what im getting the deal on so i want to stick to that, but what would make me have the best sound quality? Should i get the 4ch 640w (160w x 4 @ 2ohms) for my mids and highs (Kappa Perfects) or 4ch 360W (90w x 4 @ 2ohms)??? And for my subs should i get (2) of the ZX1000.1 (1000w x 1 @ 2ohms) amps to power each sub or should i get just (1) of them and under power the L7's. Something i didnt mention on the OP is that the JL's are 4ohms each and the L7 are 2ohms if that matters.

Thanks again for the help

 

I actually had a 12" JL W3 in my fit! I really loved the sound quality on it.. but it was really old (got it from my brother who let it sit in his mustang for years), so after a few days of too much blasting, it bust. The rubber around it was just old and it ripped from too much vibration. I didn't want a new sub though so I hot glued it and it lasted for a while longer, still sounded great. Then it kept busting haha... After a while, I just went to Best Buy and bought a 12" Kicker. I put it into the same sub box with the same amp and it just didn't sound the same :/ I'm kinda upset with my choice.. I should have gone with the JL. Even my friends noticed that the Kicker isn't as good as the JL was.

 

For the OP, the 360W 4 channel will do fine for mids and highs, no real need for you to go higher in wattage most component sets are not rated more than 75w per channel in power handling. And as for your interior falling apart again, unless you are pushing out some amazing power and a butt load of subs you have nothing to worry about. The only thing you may see is a loosening of your rear view mirror from large amounts of vibration. As for a sub amp, one of those 1000W amps will be fine, there is no need in your case which seems more of a SQ oriented sound, to push 2000W to your subs. As far as the impedance rating of each set of subs, that is what you will need to work out as far as a impedance load on the amp. So for example with the JLs being 4ohm SVC (single voice coil) which I am assuming based on your information posted here. You can have either an 8ohm load (series wired) or a 2ohm load (parallel wired). The ZX1000.1 can do 2ohm mono so you will be fine in a parallel configuration of the voice coils on the JLs. Now as for the L7's again you stated 2ohm per sub assuming an SVC sub, you can either get 4ohm (series) or 1ohm (parallel) the ZX1000.1 is not rated down to 1ohm safely from the manufacturer. Can you run it that low? Sure, but you will need to be careful. If you were to choose the kicker subs, I would either get 4ohm SVC subs or get DVC subs that will allow you to go to a 2ohm mono load.

To Pandahh, I can tell you exactly why your Kicker sub sounded like crap. The box you have is designed for a JL sub, not a Kicker sub. Now I am sure you may be thinking, well wth it should work fine. It will work fine but it will not sound good because the box was designed to a specific set or parameters that the JL sub met. When you took that out and placed a Kicker sub in it, those parameters changed therefore the sub just didn't seem to sound right. Each sub is different, and no one enclosure can truly sound good for every sub. It is much better to have a enclosure designed and built for whatever brand sub you are using. Just as a side note. Prefabricated enclosures are designed around a generic set of those parameters I spoke of so if you go to say Best Buy and pick up a premade ported box, Alpine subs might sound awesome in it, and yet Kicker subs may not. Again it's the same concept the parameters of the Alpine sub are closer to the ones used in the prefab design vs the Kickers parameters therefore it sounds better, does this mean the Alpine sub is better, by no means at all.

Phew, that was a mouth full LOL. Anyway guys, I am full of information and I enjoy sharing it. I may not know everything, but what I do know I will gladly share. And as always if anyone has a question they don't want to ask on the forum just PM me.

 

Yea the L7's are actually DVC subs. So i guess i could use that amp. Im kinda leaning towards going with the L7's over the JL's to be honest. I definitely feel more at ease knowing that im not going to destroy my car lol. Im gonna make a decision pretty soon... I'll keep you guys posted.

 

Good luck, and no question is too dumb, just ask I will be glad to give my insight to help.

 

i have both actually. 12" L7, 12" W3v3....along with 12" W6 and W1v2.
Destroy your car? lol. no but rattle perhaps, window breaking is very uncommon unless its cracked, even if you can't see it well. Sound dampening is recommended for most any car. Your power should be at or just above the recommended RMS range of each sub.

First off, its really all about the installation, not the sub. The box and wiring is very important, those cheap copper clad (read not pure copper) amp kits don't cut it. Nor does a box not optimized for the sub (read store bought boxes or wrong volume)
I purchased my wires separately and cheaply by getting Monster Cable 2 guage, 25 feet power and 20 ft RCA wires from Ebay under $75. Other good brand kits are RF,Pheonix gold, Lanzar but imo, all their RCA's arnt quite as good as they could be. so i opted to go separately this time.

I have listened to all my aforementioned subs side by side in proper sealed boxes as recommended by their makers using 3 different amps (mtx 1501d, RF600.1bd, RF punch 60ix)......i have not tried a ported box, don't really like em myself.

The clear winner without a doubt turned out to be my W6, but that doesn't help you. The others are not so clear but i'll try. I'm no audio expert with a trained ear or nothing but here it goes.

The L7 is not a SQ sub. It has a grumble bass type sound that some hate, some love and mentioned in many forums. I like it myself, its a deep, less accurate growly kinda sound but doesn't hit any harder than the W3v3. I also would not say its louder than the W3v3 either. The little, tiny extra surface area of the square is more marketing hype than real world results, it also causes them to be less accurate but depends how good a listener you are. The DVC's are for configuration variety and nothing more.
The square design is actually old and done over 15 yrs ago, but Kicker made it popular and MTX has their own square subs of slightly better quality though quality is opinion.

The W3v3 is a punchier, more accurate sound, yet has a very slight metallic ping in its punch you often find in aluminum cones. The entire sub is is said by insiders built using what's considered to be one of the best techniques in the industry and part of what made JLA so famous for so long. Their W7/W6 line has not really been surpassed in technology in over a decade, though they all use variants for unique results. i think the only real new tech out there is polyglass. The rest are variants mostly.

All brands have their signature separated among low,middle and high ends, many license existing patents or alter enough to patent their own, but really its the install. L7 and W3v3 are basically middle end and there is a difference that's noticeable between quality so you usually get what you pay for.

again, all tested in sealed chambers both outside and inside my car, your results may and will vary depending on your install, which is most important. Any sub can be loud in a proper install but getting both spl and SQ means higher prices

My pick is the L7 cause i like that growl sound, but some hate it so you may want to listen first. Some think its louder than others and vise versa but that's all in the install and car its in...just always remember that part.
Right now their both in my garage, replaced with the W6 which imo turned out to be worth every penny.

hope that halped, sorry for long post everyone.

 

Ok so i still havent made a decision with regards to the subs i should use... i spoke with a car audio guy from around here and he said that if i go with the L7s im going to need to dynamat my whole car because if i dont then its going to put about 30k miles worth of road vibration on my car in one year and it will end up damaging it. I dont know if he was serious or if he was just trying to get a sale. Again, im not going to be blasting my stereo everywhere i go. i just want some thing thats going to sound good but at the same time will be able to turn some heads if i do decide to crank it up.

 

it wont nor can't destroy your car. Its about the watts and L7's only handle within the 750 watts rms class. You get into 3000 + watts, multiple subs, you get quite a lot of sound pressure and flexing of panels but to actually destroy anything takes tons of boom...watch some Youtub vids of high powered subs and you'll see guys with 12 subs and their cars handle it just fine. Sometimes existing cracks in your windows will get worse if you have any but for 2 L7's, i woldnt worry about it.

L7's honestly are not that much perceptively louder than other subs in its class. Its about the equivalent of a 13" sub. A 15" DD or Fi would be louder at deeper notes than the L7 with the same wattage. Even my W6v2 is a tad louder on the same amp.

The reason why its so commonly referred to as a "loud" sub is in small part hype of its slightly more surface area and design in ported enclosures as well as the trend of word of mouth perception. Another small part being biased or inexperienced owners and plus L7 has pre made ported boxes that are tuned a bit high around 40hz i think...meaning higher SPL and worse accuracy. For SPL competitions, you would tune your box to 60hz but it would sound horrible for music. Tune to 32-36hz for more accuracy and flatter response.
Its not an accurate sub either way but its a good one in a ported box, it won't destroy your car and you'll satisified with either choice actually. The largest difference will be in your box. Get a proper ported box. I'd choose the L7 over W3 cause i like its sound not cause its really much louder but thats me.

remember, difference in how subs sound and is agreed by most enthusiasts is 90% box and 10% sub. So focus on the box

 

Alright i hear ya... thanks for reassuring me. The problem with me is that i will have my mind made up but since im not all that knowledgeable someone can just start throwing facts at me i start doubting myself because i think they might be right.

Anyway do you recommend that i dynamat my whole car or just do the hatch and doors or nothing at all???

 

Soul, we will have to agree to disagree, as a former team member for kicker in my CRX with L7s I can tell you that you don't have to tune to 60Hz for SPL my CRX was tuned at 44Hz and peaked at 48Hz. Tuning has just as much to do with the car as it does with the sub and more so in some opinions. That and loudness measurement has changed over the years even from when I was a sponsored competitor from the standard Audio Control mic, to the first termlabs, to the termlabs used today. You do make a valid point on the box being a good portion of the formula, however a great box and a crappy sub will still be crappy period. Unfortunately for Yoshi there is not much he can do to demo subs, its not like they are components and you can hear generally the difference between two brands.

I would start by dynamating the front door skins and the rear hatch area, then if you still hear rattles add more as needed, and do NOT forget to line the back of your license plate. You do not have to use dynamat brand there are several brands out there available you can get that are just as good for cheaper, such as brown bread.

 

Surprised rockford hasn't been brought into the subject. I just put a punch 3 12" in my fit and it's outdoing an L7 in my buddy's rsx while being 200 watts underpowered.

I will agree with Fit4Spl, a box can only do so much before you need to have a good subwoofer. A walmart sub isn't ever going to sound great no matter what box you put it in.

 

RF had a brief time when I would recommend them, however going more "mainstream" so to speak has lowered the QA of the products they release if you ask me. Just as MB Quart now owned by RF corp is no where near the quality it was when it was manufactured in Germany. Some of the older RF subs like the HX series were pretty nice, however today I wouldn't recommend them, but again it's just my opinion.

 

Funny, I run a 1200watt JBL Crown series Class D sub amp with 4AWG power and ground, and the same size power and ground on my Crown series 4ch amp both of which are very well made and efficient amps. No upgraded battery or caps, and I have NO dimming issues at all. Dunno why you are having such power draw issues, but it sounds like something is not right somewhere.

 

And when you listen to a class D amp compared to a class A/B on a sub there is very little difference to the ear, especially when you are listening to music that is geared towards heavy and heavier bass. Now granted a more SQ system wouldn't likely use a class D but for more SPL output using a class A/B is just foolish in this day and age imo. A/B high currents where the standard back in the late 90s but with the onset of class D, they have all but been left in the dust due to efficiency.

I have listened to, judged and installed all types of sound systems from full blown world champion SQ cars, to earth shaking world record holding SPL monsters. So I can and have heard the difference from a Tube amplifier to a super clean A/B and beyond, but to the average everyday listener a class D is perfectly fine for a daily driver. Of course everything is purely opinion based, so the owner must make his decision on his own, and my personal motto on that is make a sample disc of music you like and simply go listen to things yourself, and let your ears decide.

 

Thanks guys for all your help! Just one final question (most likely not lol)... Anyway, my final decision was to stick with my two JLs. Im going to use the kicker dx1000.1 to run them. As for my door speakers i decided to not go with the kappa perfects and go with kickers qs series speakers. I finally got a chance to hear them and the silk dome tweeter of the kicker speakers really made it sound better IMO. I will also be using a kicker 500 watt 4 ch amp for these. My question is, if i am putting all this stuff in my car (double din head unit, two 12 inch subs, four door speakers and the amps to run them) do i need to change out my stock battery??? I still have the same one from when i bought the car brand new back in 08. If so which battery should i get?? I also have retrofit HIDs if that comes into play at all. Once again any input it appreciated.