how long did you had your stock shocks?

 

i WANT to say 10,000 miles ish?

 

I am running Skunk2 springs on stock shocks. I have HFP 16s and Yokohama H4s 205/45/16. I have mixed feelings about my suspension setup. As far as ride height goes I think the stance is cool. My biggest complaint would be freeway bumps. Some freeway bumps will upset the cabin. It just doesn't take some bumps well at highway cruising speeds, I would be afraid to hit some freeway bumps above 80. I'm thinking I should have gone with Tien S-Techs which are designed to be used with stock shocks and offer a balance of performance and comfort. (Atleast thats how the manufacturer describes them) A confirmation from someone who has Tien S Techs with stock shocks would help. Anyone use the SPOON Suspension, as sold here: eBay item # 320338593375 ?

 

i have to ask, snap oversteer? i'm having a hard time seeing it in a FWD, can you describe how it happened?

 

Just when you're countersteering really quick,since the rear of the fit is so light,there's really no way to control it from sliding.That is unless you just get off the gas and slow down, but that'll only make the spin less dramatic.


A good example would be the slalom, you're turning the car back and forth really quick, if you "snap" the steering wheel too fast, the weight transfer will just make the rearend slide.

 

just my opinion, but i think this guy does a good job of discussing "snap oversteer" here: MR2s and snap oversteer

i just have to disagree with you about snap oversteer in relation to the rear sway bar and snap oversteer in the fit in general. just my opinion, i think you have to have a rwd car to really get into oversteer situations that are hairy enough to maybe call "snap oversteer" but definitely not in a FWD. again, just a dissenting opinion. that "snap oversteer" actually exists is debateable enough.

 

Interesting read.
I wonder if you could solicit a similar article from the early Porsche 911 owners/drivers? Snap oversteer is a term I hear more from them than any other group, probably because of the "un-ideal" rear-engine rear-drive layout and the relative lack of refinement vs. newer 911s (hence the popularity of mid-engined Porsche 914s or Boxsters as autocrossers).

While I agree that oversteer is either deliberately provoked or a result of a green driver's mistakes in control inputs, don't some cars oversteer more easily than others? It seems the further back the engine is placed from the front, the more easily it rotates.

 

snap oversteer definitely exist, it may not be a professional term, but it exist.

I kinda agree with his first definition. It IS a driver's error. It's just basically over-countersteering.

The fit has a very crude rear suspension,unlike the fully independent ones they have in type Rs and such.


PURELY as an amateur, I think it's unwise to stiffen up the rear anymore than an RSB and a C-pillar bar. It's very easy to create oversteer in this car, the back just slides around since the weight distribution is so front biased and the rear wheels get no grip.


Here's a clip from on of my auto x sessions, ignore the ending lol

Untitled on Vimeo

 

the configuration that we most often hear "snap oversteer" is in mid or rear engine cars. and the context is usually a yaw situation that is both sudden (almost unexpected) and severe.

it's important to discuss what your throttle/ brake inputs are in a "snap oversteer" situation because the tendency for certain cars to be "snap oversteer" prone is a function of throttle/ brake and steering inputs. you cannot isolate it to steering or how fast you change a steering input.

the sliding you achieve in that video is actually pretty cool. i'm going to speculate here that you are pitching the car in and lifting. that your RSB increases the effective wheel rate while under a cornering load is not the same as inducing snap oversteer.

just my opinion, but i really dont think that a FF with a 100% functional suspension (no suspension binding, servicable bushings, mountings, and hardware) can be prone to "snap oversteer". overrsteer can be induced by driving technique, but it's not going to just appear out of seemingly nowhere while steady state cornering in a FF. an RSB may add to a more lively rear end, but the one in question doesn't have that much control authority to be remotely snappy. again, just an opinion.

 

Because few FWD cars have nothing less than enormous understeer and by stiffening the rear springs the undersrteer is reduced by adding oversteer at the rear.
On 08's just deactivating the front bar improves handling greatly. And thats why Honda put a rear bar on the 09 Sport to tone down the understeer but the 09 still understeers too much.
The problem with adding additional antisway bars is it costs terminal cornering traction due to the weight shift unloading the inside tires. 4 tires have better traction than 2 even if cornering seems flatter up to that point.
And on a Fit the rear seat is easily overloaded so stiffer springs are beneficial there too. (Airlifts shocks at the rear do the best job)

 

Cool man, I mean my knowledge as far as driving techniques and such are just as much if not less than yours.

So i'm always open to having an open discussion about it.

 

Snap oversteer applies to any vehicle with the tendency to lose rear traction very suddenly. It can be obtained with Mustang V-8's merely by putting skinny tires on the drive wheels. Even without power the rear is so light that it loses traction very very quickly and to such an extent it can't be saved. Or Fits with too much rear air pressure or undersized tires..
And if you put too small a tire or too high a pressure or a low adhesion tires on the FF rear it can exhibit the same snap oversteer. It is good for learning experience with controlling rotation though. (on a big parking lot).

 

it's not unexpected when you are making deliberate decisions along the way. and if it isn't unexpected (or if it is, in fact, deliberate) then it can't be "snap" oversteer.

 

Making those changes won't necessarily lead to snap oversteer. Its snap because it occurs suddenly, expected or not. What you want is gradual changes, not abrupt ones; too hard to catch and control.
For example. we run a track FWD vehickle with 235/40x17 tires in front and 215/45x17 tires rear that you would assume might lead to snap oversteer, but it doesn't. All transitions are smooth and neutral as was intended.
Some other combinations that appeared benign turned out vicious, like 225/45x17's with Michelin front and Pirelli rears, 35 vs 48 psi rear.
No antisway bars.
Thats wht it takes experimentation. And why its done on a large parking lot.
BTW, the larger footprint goes on the driven wheels with the most weight, not always the rear. What is wanted is both ends to have the same traction effects, like sliding friction and releases. Rarekly get it but come as close as you can. Its the diff between winning and losing.

 

You betcha !
For those of us with 58 and 60 Porsches, the term snap oversteer has definite meaning. Its not just oversteer its how quickly handling changes to oversteer. In those cars the change was so quick the car had yet to deviate more than a few mm from intended rear path when it was too late to control. You really learned what driving on the edge meant. If you learned you prospered; if you didn't you got another car. You knew breakaway woukld be very sudden and a lot sideways quicker than could be monitored and once oversteer occurred it was very difficult to control.The point is it occurred very quickly with no advance warning. You may know it would happen but you didn't know when. That makes it unexpected. It required you be very ready to react when it happened...or else find a soft place to land.

 

then why not call it sudden oversteer? what i'm getting at is when people push a car right up to a well known limit and either ignore it or purposely exceed it, the result is predictable (even if sudden).

i don't think it's semantics, either. snap, to me, means unexpected. like getting into a different surface when steady state cornering (such as some road salt/ gravel toward the outside of an offramp) which results in understeer. with all four wheels sliding toward the outside of the turn, lets say the front wheels suddenly regain grip when they get into some clean surface, but the rear wheels are still in the grit and sliding. the traction difference front to rear results in a big yaw angle, and you may not be able to predict exactly when that will happen.

all the situations you have described, to me at least, are sudden but expected and therefore not "snap" oversteer.

 

update.

put my ultra racing 4pt rear brace
took out my back seats which way about 70lbs
put in the JDM room bar.

way better now

 

subscribed

 

just got my 4pt lower front H brace in. should be putting it in by saturday hopefully along with the rear sway bar.

i was hoping to have my miracle x bar in but they are making ZERO as of right now. the machine is broken and they cant produce any

 

do you have to make any modifications for that 4 point to fit? also how about the rear one you spoke of in an earlier post?