Something pertinent to our discussion....

Cars-That-Pollute-the-Least- Yahoo! Autos Article Page-

 

I tried to find a GREEN use for a Hummer today. A suitable 18 wheel, for my normal 1+ sec drafting, was lacking so I fell in behind a H2. It was marginal help according to my SG, making it totally UN-Green.

BTW 44.2 (for the 26 mile drive) on my SG as I pulled into my work parking lot. 60 to 65mph 75% freeway and balance stop and go. Shut the eng off at long lights 3 times today.

 

exactly. to echo what sugarphreak said, gordio's basic argument is that a car driven less is less harmful than x car driven all the time.


if thats the case fine. but if you drive a prius one mile a day and a hummer one mile a day, which is the 'greener' choice? see? it all boils down to the fact that the prius would still emerge the winner.


the problem with gordios whole premise is that this could have been said about ANY car! even when its an apples to apples comparison (i.e. 'a honda civic driven a mile a day is greener than a corolla driven 50 miles a day) and an apples to oranges comparison like this one. (and for the record, this isn't the first time this concept has been brought up, a lot of folks have tooted the 'well if you drive your prius alot, it's more polluting than my mile a day suv!' horn. its nothing new.)


this whole thing is silly.

 

Excuse me? MPG matters more than gallons burned?

Which scenario is better:
A) Driving 40 mpg and travelling 80 miles/day (total gasoline burned: 2 gallon)
B) Driving 10 mpg travelling 1 miles/day (total gasoline burned: 0.1 gal)

You think scenario A is better than B?

Well I have a choice. I take the electric train and bike to work. I still feel guilty when I drive my fit 70 miles a day. I pollute more than my mom's RDX, which is a turbo CUV. I would be a hypocrite if I said I was greener than her, even if she's not burning less oil than me on purpose.
That's my problem. People assume everyone commutes the same distance. What makes that assumption valid? What ultimately matters is how much pollutants you put in the air. Whether it's from a car, leaving your AC on in your house, or burning coal in a barbecue, there's only one thing that matters: pollutants/CO2. Everyone's lifestyle is different, so why is it safe to assume everyone drives the same distance? I know you want to be fair, and in life, to compare two things, there needs to be a "similarity" between the two. But that's my problem. It's natural to believe that assuming everyone drives the same distance is logical, but it's not.

Consider this: People do consider commute distance when choosing a car. For an average person who cares more of practicality than image, you're less likely to buy a high mileage car if you commute short distances.

This means if you commuted closer, you may have instead bought a CRV instead of your lovely Fit. If you worked farther, you may have been a prius owner by now. But you're the same person with the same green intentions.

 

Ok sticking with this for a moment, you strike me as a much greener person than I. So when you say you drive 70 miles a day, my assumption is you have a very good reason not to bike or take the electric train. Fair enough, I am not questioning that, however when this situation arises do you;

a) Drive your parents RDX
b) Dirve you Fit
c) Drive a Prius
d) Drive a Hummer


Ok, we already know the answer. You drive your Fit....

With that said, you burn much less gas than the RDX and less gas than the Hummer. You had a choice (for arguements sake) and you picked the Fit. That makes the Fit a greener choice... had you had access to a Prius I honestly believe you would have taken that.

At the end of the day, the Prius is a greener vehicle hands down. It really dosn't matter if you drive 1 mile or 100 miles, the Prius will use less fuel.

Your point stems from the fact that when people have a choice, the path they take determines how green they really are. However your example is of two separate conditions, one of which is advantageous over the other. It really dosn't matter if the person drives a Hummer or the Prius or any other car that isn't electric (well not really considering the source of electricity) where you compare a similar condition the Prius is better.

Really, this is like saying that you are better than Lance Armstrong at pedaling your bike because it only takes you 5 minutes to pedal to the store and it takes him 60 minutes to finish a short race.

 

Well, at least both cars aren't as bad as the new $4,000 Tata Motors car. Even though it gets 50 mpg, but it has NO CATALATIC CONVERTER! So if the Hummer has a better emission system (which it probably doesn't) than the Prius, does it make it more 'greener'? I'm getting confused here with all of you posting these scenerios. I do agree with coupdetat though. I would hate to see all these SUV and Hummers guzzle jacking up the price of gas by claiming that they pollute less.

 

Yea but I do love that civic sedan si. I initially wanted a civic hybrid, but it was too slow (slower than prius).

First, I wanna mention that I got the fit before my current job. At the time, commute was maybe 20 miles round trip. If I had my current job (70 miles) at the time I was picking a car, I may have ignored the slow speed and choose the civic. I also cross the bridge, which is 4$, which may have made me choose the civic hybrid since it crosses the bridge free.

I consider myself hardcore green, but remember there is a full spectrum of how green people want to be. And I'm not the greenest. And some people lie in a situation where they will choose between a green car, a greener car, or a normal car.

A hummer is an exaggeration. I know there is a lot of hatred for that car. But if I chose a more less hated CUV/SUV, like the RDX or a Rav4, people would be more willing to listen to my comment and debate this more open mindedly.

 

My point of this thread is not to say good things about the hummer, but that no matter what you drive, you will pollute. You also need to be honest with yourself. Many people drive high mileage cars thinking they're doing less harm than big truck drivers, and that perception may be harmful because distance matters. What ultimately matters (for global warming argument) is how much gasoline you are burning, not mileage. In my case, My fit pollutes more than my mom's RDX, and she doesn't even have an opinion about global warming.

As much as it's hard to admit, some green people do pollute more than neo con GW-is-a-myth school of thought people.

I first got this idea b/c my dad was doing tile work for a rich housewife who is from a typical bigger-is-better culture, and I notice she drove the biggest dodge RAM you can buy, but she only used it to drive to the market. And it was a kick in the face to realize that car polluted less than my car.

 

You're going to pollute anyways. You breath in oxygen, and breathe out CO2. Take a dump, and you generate methane. But the fact that people are driving Hummers, which has no real applicable use kinda make me uneasy. You use a bus to load alot of people. You use a pickup truck to transport heavy loads (supposingly). Also, I mentioned that hybrids are heavily inefficient at fast speed, but then are very useful on stop and go situation (very good for taxis). It's just that alot of people don't realize these things. It's not that bad to pollute, but it's always better to reduce pollution. I just find it absurd that people will believe information that companies are presenting in their commercials. Toyota claims to be high on MPG, but their parts are cheap. I use to have a 2000 corolla and it was classified as a polluter 2 years later. What bothers me is when people buy trucks just because of the size, and they don't need to carry anything when a generic compact car can do the same. I don't consider myself an enviromentalist, but I do believe that if everyone reduces their pollution by 1%, it'll have a big effect because there's a whole lot of people out there.

 

I just find it absurd that people will believe information that companies are presenting in their commercials.

Yeah, I always find it particularly ironic that Hummer commercials always end in the sight of our blue planet. At this pace, by 2075 the same commercials would be showing a moonscape seen from the same angle.