* Smaller than the 3-cylinder Geo Metro??

 

Honda has officialy bowed out of MT's on Hybrids the 06 Civic Hybrid is CVT only its more efficent than the MT anyway plus the CVT is also easier to mesh with grade logic control, fuel maps, and the Drive by wire throttle control as a check and balance system on modern hybrids. The Insight is officially trashed after 06 anyway Honda only sells a couple hundred a year, meaning it is about as popular as the 14-15 year old current generation NSX. The new Civic Hybrid engine should be a direct bolt up and the battery system is a no brainer addition into the Fit. So I think it is a definite possibility.

 

Engine bay on the fit is alot smaller than a Civic. No B-Series engines will fit in the bay without major structural modifications to the vehicle. Other L-Series engines may be a different story.

 

I've heard that it can take about 10 years or more, if fuel is 2.50/gallon, to make up for the extra amount spent on a hybrid

 

I don't know how much it is for the batteries for hondas but the quote to replace the batteries once worn out for the hybrid explorer was $6k

 

There's a hybrid explorer? Are you sure you dont mean Escape?

But, as was already stated in the thread, the batteries should last 10 years. $6k seems a little too high, I thought it was closer to around $4k.

 

Actually it takes less than a year to get your money back on a hybrid you get a 2000.00 tax deduction for buying a hybrid vehicle which is roughly the cost of the civic hybrid over the ex model and the accord hybrid over the ex-v6 model. I feel that you get more reward for doing something decent for the environment and for your descendants they have to inherit this mudhole you know. I would buy a hybrid not to save money on gas as much as for doing my part for th environment. The Battery pack currently runs about 6,000.00 on the insight but I hear the latest generation battery modules are more powerful smaller and getting cheaper to make. The way I see it after the warranty period is up a few years down the road in 2010 I will be hopping onto the Hydrogen fuel cell bandwagon anyway the FCX concept car from the Tokyo Motor show looks awsome.

 

It sounds like you've heard a much better rate of making up the differance. I think i'll go with yours. I did hear that the tax break would be gone at some point and i thought it was this year, is that not true? (and yes i meant escape not explorer hybrid, sorry)

 

I've owned 3 Civic wagons in my life. A 1981, a 1984 (both bought new) and an '87 awd that I currently drive regularly. I got the '87 two years ago. Found it on ebay(had a broken cam). Found a head at a local junkyard and after quite a bit of cleanup and fixup(new brakes, etc) have put about 20,000 miles on it. To me, that was the perfect car. Great gas mileage and very utilitarian(I remember carrying a corner china cabinet, several boxes and my wife all at the same time). I will never uderstand why Honda dropped the Civic wagon from their lineup but sure am glad they've brought the fit to the us. Now if they could just give us a hybrid version...

 

Going strictly by MSRP, a Civic EX sedan is $3590 cheaper than a Civic hybrid. Realisticly though, you can get a Civic EX sedan below MSRP whereas civic hybrids sell at or above MSRP. So in the real world, the price difference is around $4000-$4500.

The 2k tax credit (a credit is better than a tax deduction) makes the margin closer, but the hybrid will still cost $1600-2500 more. There is no way you'll save that much in gas by driving a hybrid in one year...

 

April 2006 Issue of Consumer Reports (US monthly magazine) has article titled "The Dollars and Sense of Hybrids". They compare hybrids to conventional autos, model by model, in cost to own. This assumes 15,000 miles a year driving, and around $2.70 for gas price (in my calculations)

They use their ACTUAL mpg from testing, not EPA estimates or manufacturer estimates, difference in purchase prices including sales tax, savings from hybrid tax credit, fuel savings over 5 years, extra insurance costs (or savings), maintenance costs (or savings), extra depreciation costs, extra financing costs, and THEN come up with a total 5-year extra cost. It's astounding...

Example:

2006 Civic Hybrid ($22,400, 37mpg avg) vs. 2006 Civic EX sedan ($18,444, 28 mpg avg)

Extra purchase price +4000
Extra sales tax +300
savings from tax credit -2100
fuel savings -1700
extra insurance cost -300
extra maintenance +100 projected
extra depreciation over 5 years +2900
extra financing cost +500
TOTAL 5-YEAR EXTRA COST = +3700

Other models:
Escape vs Escape Hybrid +8350
Accord Hybrid vs. EX sedan +10250
Lexus RX400h AWD vs. RX330 AWD +13100
Highlander Hybrid AWD vs. Highlander AWD +13300
Prius vs. Corolla LE +5250 (this ones unfair - should have been prius vs camry for size...)

Again, fuel mileage is based on their actual findings with testing in a standardized method, not manufacturers claims, not EPA claims.

So- environment loves hybrids. Wallets don't (yet). Maybe a sub$15g Fit hybrid will turn the tables.

Consumer reports also looked at the same reasoning over 10 years and 150,000 miles, and still found that hybrids did not recouperate their costs.

Oh, I'm only the messenger, BTW. I think hybrids are a great idea, but not for the costs yet.

 

In the United States, as has been stated already, a tax credit of $2000 is available the first year.

If you think that means you get $2000 back, you must know something about doing your taxes that I don't.

If you are in a 15% tax bracket (or so, I don't know all of them, but I know mine is 28% with spouse), then you will simply not have to pay taxes on $2000 of your income. This is a change in your tax bill of no more than 15% of $2000, or $300. I think its considerably less than that actually since part of the 15% is SStax, etc... In my case, it might be, but I'm nearly sure it's not, as high as 28% of $2000 not owed in tax.

Using the tax break as a real number is not a sensible way to look at costs.

If there are any accountants on here, chime in.

 

Actually, I think you are confusing definitions. A tax credit means you actually wouldn't have to pay $2000 for your taxes. Say you do your taxes and find that you owe $5000, with the credit you only need to pay $3000.

What you are referring to is called a deduction.

 

oops. you are right.