*sigh* I'll be the dissenting voice.

I had a HUGE comment I was about to post... but I guess I'll leave it at this slightly shorter one.

Was there something in your path, you were "in danger" of hitting? I don't mean if the SUV hits you, I mean if you had simply proceeded normally and not braked.

Like fitchet mentioned at one point... you should NOT have stopped. Hell, your mother said so.

It matters because, as much as it pains me to say this... we don't live in a world where we give two car lengths of clearance before proceeding into an intersection. But if you consider the millions upon MILLIONS of other drivers out there that DON'T cause accidents even though they proceed through an intersection within a hair of the other drivers... you have to realize one thing.

You panicked.

If you had not braked, would you have gotten hit?

I'm betting that if you had not braked, you could've avoided the whole accident, period. Your diagrams gave NO indication of anything or anyone in front of your path that would give you cause/justification to stop.

I'm also betting that officer was thinking the same thing (based on even YOUR accounts of the incident). "Why would this driver brake?" And as such, he came up with various assumptions. Does an officer need to witness "a failure to stop" before giving a ticket for it? Not if it is assumed that it caused an accident. Is that ticket justified? Not directly.

 

I understand that I shouldn't have stopped but even if that's what the cop was thinking why issue me this ticket.

My objective no longer is to prove that the accident was'nt my fault but my objective now is to prove I did not run a stop sign. Which i did not.

No there was nothing in my way but if he would have hit me where i thought i was going to be hit and hard i would have spun and could have hit ANYTHING.

 

Without a lawyer to make contact with the court and bargain a plea you're on thin ice.

One hint, by you, at suggesting the police made a mistake and you're game is over.
At 19yo you're too young to have a successful day in court without an attorney representing you.

If you do go on your own, one of the first things you want to do is plea to a lesser - non-moving - violation. So when you're asked how you plea you will say you will plea guilty to a lesser charge. The judge will not dismiss the charges - period.

Many times the attorney will contact the court before you go in to establish a deal. Given the details of your situation that might happen but, I can almost guarantee you, you will not pull it off yourself.

But, which ever way you look at it you're in for a learning experience. Best of luck. Your best bet is the officer doesn't show, but that's doubtful.

 

You actually missed my point... he could've just as easily assumed you didn't stop and that you were braking, was BS. Or actually, this is the kind of assumption that just might stand up in front of a judge...

*remember, you braked after the intersection without any object obstructing your path. ie, for no "good" reason. Think about it... that assumption (as inaccurate as you say it is) fits the end result, doesn't it?

BTW

If that was the car you were in... it only further supports THEIR assumptions. Again, as wrong as you think it is.

If your passenger is your only witness... that's going to be a hard sell.

That's just the thing... based on your impact point and the angle of the two cars... you already PASSED that possibility. You had to brake for him to even hit you and the angle is already shallow by then.

If he had hit you in the fender or the doors... OR if he was in a much steeper angle... then it would be different. It would imply that had you kept going he would've caused you to spin. If he had been steeper, it would imply that he had to swerve to your rear to avoid hitting further up. BUT even then, he'd have to hit you with a LOT more force. Enough force to at least crush in the rear hatch. As it stands, the bumper damage is just about the amount of damage you would get from suddenly stopping in front of another car that braked a little late.

Basically, what I'm saying... your description of the events (and the diagrams) are working against you.

Again and again... it boils down to... you braking.

Here's a flipside... something to consider. How much attention were you paying? Some drivers are TOTAL ASSHATS, and will attempt to take "their way" even when someone else has the right of way. Right or wrong, a "good" driver would let the idiot go. Perhaps that SUV driver is one of them and had you noticed, you might've simply let them go and still avoided the accident.

 

OP- i would go to court, tell the judge exactly what happened. if he still insists on giving you a ticket then get a traffic lawyer and fight it.

 

Researched it for you, sorry bro. Not available in New Jersey.

States where trial by declaration is not allowed include:
Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, and Wisconsin.

 

You need to realise. Im fighting a stop sign ticket, not fighting against the accident. All i have to prove is that i didnt break the stop sign law i don't need to prove anything else because i was only issued a stop sign ticket.


That's what the plan is now. I wont pay this ticket if i loose myself ill come back with a lawyer.

Interesting. thank you for looking.

 

At 19, you're fodder for the legal system. It really wouldn't hurt to talk with a lawyer about this. Worst thing they say is no. Think of the effect that ticket will have on your insurance. It just may be cheaper rolling the dice with a lawyer instead of paying the insurance hike for years.

And, good for you for fighting that ticket. Even if you get it reduced to fewer points with a higher fine, that still is a win for you. If you happen to get into another accident/ticket, those points stick with you. Even if you've taken a defensive driving/point reduction course. That course is for the insurance reduction. NJ still keeps those points on your license to use against you on a later date. So fight that ticket, try to get it dismissed, or take a higher fine with fewer points. Trust me, you don't want points on your license. A run of stupid driving and bad luck can easily lead to many thousands of lost dollars that could have been avoided.

 

Always choose your battles. Once you enter the court you're most likely not going to be given the opportunity to return. The upfront contact needs to be made. It's what lawyers are for.

Again, good luck.

 

Court tomorrow I will fill you all in on how everything goes down. Khakis and a polo good for court room attire?

 

GL ciggy! keep us posted.

yah, just look well groomed and sharp and you're fine. no need to really dress up. you'll notice that other folks in the courtroom with tickets are in dirty cargo pants and jeans.

 

Since you are fighting the ticket, I'm pretty sure the other guy won't even be in court (why would he, unless maybe he received the exact same ticket). It comes down to your word against the cop's, but the cop may not show up.

If he does, you should show your illustration and mention that you were hit from behind after you crossed the intersection, so how could you have not stopped?

 

Well I was told the officer was busy and couldnt make it to the court room. He was standing outside the court room bullshitting with another officer as I was walking out.

Trial we rescheduled for Dec 9 guess they couldnt drag it out any longer then that. Beginning to think the officer is'nt even going to show ever and theyll just drop the ticket. Little ridiculous though. Waste of my time.

All they want is money I was offered an amend for some ridiculous fee but I said no. Love how this justice system can get you a lesser charge if you just pay some money. The guy doesnt even know the story how can he lesser my charge when they have no clue what happened. Such Bull shit.

 

Gawd I hate stories like this. I can't believe they're making you come back. It's stupendously clear that they're trying to use you as an ATM. Makes me want to strangle the next cop I see.

I got a fix-it ticket for a burnt out headlight. I told the cop that I knew the bulb was out and that it had just happened that night, which it had. He gave me the ticket anyway. Now perhaps I shouldn't complain, because all I had to do was go back and show them that the headlight was fixed within 2 weeks. But here's the rub: if I had not gone back, they would have sent me a summons and I would have owed them money.

I went back the very next day. The guy who inspected my headlight said 'looks good' and walked away. He didn't sign anything, he didn't hand me any paper showing that I had complied with the fix-it ticket. Worse than that -- he actually took the only paper I had with him! I followed him back into the station and requested a copy of the paper, with his signature showing that he had inspected my car and I had complied with the fix-it. The guy was pissed off but I don't care; by that time it was perfectly clear to me that the whole idea was that they would send me a summons and I would send them money. I was not going to play that game.

Harleysville Pennsylvania. Small town, yet crawling with cops. All the cop cars are shiny and new. They have stealth hot rod cop cars and all kinds of other high priced gear, but the speed limit signs are so old they're rusting off the poles. The speed limit changes 4 times in 2 miles. They might as well hang out a sign; "we use our police as a revenue source".

Take 'em down. Good luck.

 

thanks!!!!!

 

ciggy- good going! keep going.

 

I believe that there is a good chance that if you reported to the police that you stopped at the stop sign, left the intersection, then the vehicle rear ended you and then reported the same to the insurance company, you would not have received a citation and the other guy's insurance would have paid you. Now the other guy can say you never reported the accident to your insurance company because you knew you were at fault. You reporting that you stopped might give them the feeling that you realized you failed to stop at that stop sign, even though you did stop there. Less information is better. You should have left that fact out. Like others have said, you are allowed to stop as you feel you need to, at least from a legal viewpoint, so you need not have mentioned it. So legally you should not have been at fault, but in reality you caused the accident by doing something that the other driver did not expect you to do--stop for no reason. He did not drive defensively and you drove over-defensively. You have to learn that other drivers will expect YOU to do what most drivers do and that includes contnuing through an intersection when traffic is clear in front of you.They do not drive defensively as they should.

 

This has NOTHING to do with what Ciggy is talking about and I don't understand what all the confusion is about.

He is not looking to see who is at fault, what caused it or what he could have done to prevent it. He doesn't even care about the accident as he's already taken care of the damage out of pocket.

All he is wondering is why he got ticketed for Failing to Stop when he did in fact stop.

 

Yup, the Judicial System can be amazing for sure.

The same goes for how the accused has the OPTION of pleading guilty to a crime they know they committed, only to get a lighter sentence. My BIL committed a crime and thought he could beat the system (major mistake) and decided to not take a plea deal. And since it went to court and was found guilty, he has a 45 year sentence instead of the 6 years proposed by the plea!

It seems as though he was being punished for making everybody (judges, jurors, etc) go to court instead of the crime he committed.

Sorry for going so OT. Was just venting.

Best of luck Ciggy.

 

getting a failure to stop ticket and getting hit in the rear sounds illogical to me...if you wouldn't have stopped you wouldn't have been hit!