Ok guys I'm not here to bitch and moan about a ticket that i dont think i deserve. I'm hear to talk to you guys about how I should handle my court case.

First the story:
A few weeks ago I went out for lunch with a co-worker. On the way back I came to a 4 way stop. I made a complete stop, let a truck go through the intersection and then proceeded through. I looked to the left of me and their was an suv headed straight for me I made it through the intersection and lightly tapped the brakes thinking I was going to be hit. I'd rather be stopped then pushed into something else. The SUV rear ended me. The police got on scene and deemed it 50/50 the other driver said I changed direction and was on the phone. Neither are true the direction he said i was going to go (right turn) was in no way the direction of my work building.

I didn't report this to my insurance I have had past accidents and decided to just pay myself. The bumper is already fixed.

However a few days later I received a failure to stop at a stop sign.

I don't understand how they even wrote me this ticket. I received the police report and neither the witness statement or the police report says I failed to stop at a stop sign. Now whether the accident was my fault or not this ticket has nothing to do with. I need to go to court and beat this ticket especially when I'm not guilty!

Paying for a lawyer for this would be a waste of time and money mite as well just pay the ticket and the ridiculous insurance rate if i was to pay a lawyer. I need to know how to win this case in court.

I'll be doing research all day on the "Failure to stop at a stop sign" ticket in NJ. Any help from you guys would be great. I'm not sure how to prove I made the stop but then again theirs no way for the officer to prove I didn't he wasn't even in the area until after the accident.

Thanks for your help.

 

I don't know if my thoughts would help you or not. Many years ago I was a cop in the suburbs of Detroit. Failure to stop is a misdemeanor offense. In most cases the police have to actually witness the act to be able to issue a ticket for violating the law. The acception is when they have a witness that will appear in court and tell the judge what you did to deserve the ticket. It boils down to a swearing match. A lot has to do with the impression you and the other driver makes on the judge. I don't know you but my suggestions are; get a haircut (if you're out of the norm), wear clean, neat clothes. Be honest and above all courteous when you speak to the judge and may the best man win. Good luck.

 

Given your description of the incident I can offer no advice.

I don't quite understand what exactly happened.

You came to a 4 way stop...and stopped.

Then "legally and correctly" proceeded through the intersection?

You saw an SUV heading for you? But decided to stop? Well I just can't picture the accident.

Did this accident happen at the intersection or within it? or was this past the intersection?

Local laws might vary, but at a 4 way stop in Oregon, given all vehicles have arrived simultaneously...the car to the right..has the right a way...you say you looked to your left and saw an SUV heading for you?

Sorry just given your description of events I can't picture exactly what happened.

I you came to a complete stop, looked in EVERY direction and it was your turn to proceed I don't even see where the accident could be deemed a 50/50 incident. But since I'm not clear as to exactly what happened...were you turning or proceeding straight? If turning did you have your blinkers on? No way I can offer an opinion on how you might beat the ticket.

It is really confusing. If you were rear ended...then how can you be faulted for failure to stop? It's usually the guy doing the rear ending that hasn't stopped. The vehicle that has stopped is the one that is rear ended.

How do you look left...and see a vehicle heading for you..but then get rear ended?

If you were "in" the intersection and the other vehicle was approaching the intersection, then it's not 50/50...the other vehicle should of stopped.

 

It's difficult to understand how a ticket can be issued 'after the fact'. You left the scene with a police report and without a ticket.

I'm guessing the SUV is owned by a high roller w/ influence and you were then ticketed so they would avoid liability.

Driving into the rear end of someone is not a 50/50 liability. Car following should always be a a safe distance to avoid collision.

The cop cannot simply say, "Oh yea, I also forgot to give you a ticket by the way, here it is.". It needs to be written on the scene I'm most sure.

 

Ok, Thank you for your advice. I did plan on wearing my work clothes. Khakis, Polo, office shoes. I know how to be polite and act professional I've been working in an office corporation for over two years. I cant help but to be profiled because the fact that I am 19.

At the scene of the accident both drivers were told two write down the incident. In my report I actually stated I waved a car through. In his statement he did'nt say I ran a stop sign causing the accident. Wouldn't this prove rite their that I had'nt run a stop sign. Even if the other driver speaks and says that I changed direction(if he says I ran a stop sign he's lying and his statement proves that), I still never ran a stop sign.

 

Ok let me clear up the accident scene for all of you.

After talking to my parents and everything they decided that i shouldnt have hit the brakes. But again this is me beating the stop sign ticket. Not getting re-embursed for the repairs.

The accident occurred AFTER I got through the 4 way stop intersection. I was head straight through and the car I let go was the one to my left. He was their first. The car behind the guy I let go, who i did not see until I was 3/4 the way through the intersection was almost 2 feet away from my driver side rear door. I then thinking I was going to be hit (already through the intersection) I lightly stepped on the brakes (thinking of getting hit i didn't want to be pushed into anything) and the guy who was now almost directly behind me but still angled making his left turn ran into my rear bumper on the driver side.


If this still isn't clear enough I can illustrate with pictures.


EDIT: Also the police report that i got a few days after the accident says we were both issued a stop sign ticket.

 

Ugh..uh I think I'm just going to excuse myself politely from trying to offer an opinion.

So the accident happened after you got through the intersection BUT you somehow got rear ended by someone in the intersection angled to make a left turn?

I have no idea.

But it sounds like you probably should of got a ticket for "stopping when you should of kept going" and the other guy should of got a ticket for failing to stop...

But honestly? I have no idea.

 

I was not aware "Stopping when you should have been moving" was a legit violation. Also when I make it a point to say I would rather be stopped then moving when hit because I didn't want to be pushed into anything. It's my responsibility to keep my car from hitting anything and it's the person behind me drivings responsibility to do the same.

I'm not here to detest that the accident was'nt 50/50 im trying to get advice on how to beat this ticket. Even if im guilty of "Stopping when you should have been moving" I am not guilty of the ticket i received.

 

Not sure how you could've gotten a ticket. Maybe print your illustrations and show that in court? You were past the stop sign and were rear ended....
And this is after the fact but I don't think it was 50/50. Where I live, is it was a rear ended, its almost always the fault of the guy in the back. He needs to leave a safe distance regardless. He shouldn't have turned until it was safe and clear.

 

Yes we have the same law here in NJ but when your 19 and the cop is a jack ass they can do what ever they want. I didn't even want to get my insurance involved I paid for the repairs out of my pocket.

 

Thanks...

If I was you, I'd bring the diagram you printed up with you.

Even if the reality was that you might of been better served by continuing to move instead of stopping...it still seems to me that you were rear ended...which is the fault of the person behind you.

Given you diagram, this accident isn't your fault at all. Especially when turning in an intersection, it's the responsibilty of the vehicle that hit you from behind, to be sure they can turn safely. IMO he shouldn't of been turning behind you, while you were still in the intersection and then given your diagram it results in him simply rear ending you.

Of course I'm going on the simplicity and one sided revelations of YOUR diagram, but given that it is accurate I'd say there are no grounds for you to receive a failure to stop ticket.

And to be honest? I don't think there is a formal citation for stopping when you should of kept going...because ultimately the vehicles behind you are suppose to allow enough room for that possibilty anyway...the idea being that "life" can cause a vehicle infront of you to have to stop suddenly for many unpredictable reasons, and thus as the vehicle from behind you have to drive allowing for this potential outcome. IE: Leave enough space even if the vehicle ahead does unexpectedly stop.

Good Luck. I think this specific ticket is beatable.

 

Thank you for your input it seems as though bringing illustrations to court will help me out. Again like i said I just need to beat this specific stop sign ticket. They had no grounds to even issue the ticket. I've never been to court and all I know is what I've learned from years of Law & Order. How do i present my facts should I just explain it when I'm asked. Will the other driver be in court the same time I am.

I feel as if I should have went through insurance the angle he hit me and the circumstances make it all his fault. My mom kept asking me why I stopped but my reply was the same each time. Why does it matter if I stopped he should have stopped as well. He should have had control of his vehicle. Even if me hitting the brakes cause him to hit me because he was to close he can be issued citation after citation for tailgating, careless driving and some ticket along the lines of leaving the stop sign before he should have.

I can not find online the laws in my state. I need to find out the law about if the officer can issue a ticket without witnessing the incident. I cant find this information and I feel it will be helpful for me to understand the laws before my court date.

 

Here's my advice.

Win or lose. Don't obssess about this too much. At 19, and as the one with the ticket, it's a big deal to you...personally...but to the judge and the legal system...you're just another person with a ticket and a complaint.

The sad reality is you can be totally right...and still end up losing and have to pay the ticket. It can really come down to what mood the judge happens to be in at the moment and whether you are wearing a color of shirt they happen to like....

I think you have a pretty strong arguement, given the reality and the diagrams and evidently also from the reports as filed by both yourself and the other driver, that this wasn't a case of failure to stop...so I'd relax and go with the diagram and this information and present it respectfully to the court.

This isn't like television, how you get to present it will mostly not be orchestrated by you. Have your information and diagrams ready, but don't obssess too much about knowing the specific laws.

Prepare to present, hope to win...know the judge might just yawn and default to....pay the ticket young kid.....

At the level of incident this represents to the legal system? You're more or less just rolling the dice....even if I think the odds are with you...

You live and learn, and yes, in the future you might of wanted to be more vocal about your innocence at the time...and you might of wanted to get the insurance involved...IMO (which is legally useless) you were rear ended...which most often is deemed entirely not the person who is rear ended fault.

 

Thank you for your advice. I will go with all the information and proof that I can and hope for the best.

This legal system is corrupt, I will do all I can to not pay this ticket.

 

If you came to a stop at the sign and proceeded lawfully, you can not be found guilty of failure to stop at the sign, unless they have a perjurer handy. You say you had lunch with a co-worker, did they see the accident? In my state, Missouri, if you hit someone behind the drivers door it is assumed you had time to react and avoid the accident and more fault is assessed to you.
BTW, New Jersey statutes are located here: Table of Contents View Frame Page and you are looking for Title 39. Good luck navigating that mess, though, it is like they don't want you reading it or have problems firing incompetent webmasters. You are probably charged on the local level, and your ticket should tell what ordinance you "violated".
Without credible testimony against you, you should not be found guilty.

 

Thank you for the link. And yes the co-worker was in my car and collaborated my story.

 

39:4-144 Stopping or yielding right of way before entering stop or yield intersections.

39:4-144. No driver of a vehicle or street car shall enter upon or cross an intersecting street marked with a "stop" sign unless:

a.The driver has first brought the vehicle or street car to a complete stop at a point within five feet of the nearest crosswalk or stop line marked upon the pavement at the near side of the intersecting street and shall proceed only after yielding the right of way to all vehicular traffic on the intersecting street which is so close as to constitute an immediate hazard.

b.No driver of a vehicle or street car shall enter upon or cross an intersecting street marked with a "yield right of way" sign without first slowing to a reasonable speed for existing conditions and visibility, stopping if necessary, and the driver shall yield the right of way to all vehicular traffic on the intersecting street which is so close as to constitute an immediate hazard; unless, in either case, the driver is otherwise directed to proceed by a traffic or police officer or traffic control signal.

c.No driver of a vehicle or street car shall turn right at an intersecting street marked with a "stop" sign or "yield right of way" sign unless the driver stops and remains stopped for pedestrians crossing the roadway within a marked crosswalk, or at an unmarked crosswalk, into which the driver is turning.

 

First of all, before you even consider going in to court, fight it by written declaration. You can provide all the story and evidence you need via mail. It saves you time and you don't have to deal with the judge and cop ganging up on you. If you are deemed guilty by mail you have a right to a "trial de novo" within 20 days of the verdict, in which you can go into court and fight it again.

I just recently fought a ticket in which the cop wrote up 3 B.S. fixit tickets after he pulled me over for speeding. The total cost of the tickets ended up being $1525.00 and after I fought them via mail, I paid $180.00 It's worth it.

 

^^ about the question regarding if the other driver will be there with you. Probably not. You are fighting the ticket against law enforcement and not against the other driver. So a) he might not be fighting it at all. b) if he is fighting it, he will get a different court date/ time most likely.

But the police officer will probably be there. Where I live, i think if the police officer doesn't show up to defend the ticket, then you don't have to pay. (not sure though)

 

I'm not sure what state your in but I'm going to look into this. I already have a require to report to court on my ticket so this doesn't seem like an option.